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RE: Breastfeeding In Court? - 11/14/2011 9:04:07 PM   
SweetCheri


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quote:

So regardless of whether or not breastfeeding in public is "legal," are there times it is simply inappropriate to do so? Is it appropriate during church services? How about in the middle of a wedding ceremony?
No, I do not believe it is ever inappropriate to breastfeed your child.

quote:

While I do understand that many women want to breastfeed their baby and want to have the right to do when when necessary, do they really have the "right" to do it anywhere, and anytime the need arises?
Yes, I believe they do.

quote:

Or should these women actually take into consideration that there are some places where stepping out of the room is just the "right" thing to do?
When would that be the right thing to do? That's what I can't see.

quote:

If a particluar place provides an area for breastfeeding (not the ladies bathroom), should a person be required to use that room as opposed to breastfeeding anywhere they choose at the facility?
No, though it would be very inconsiderate of one not to. If an appropriate place has been provided that does not overly inconvenience the mother, then common courtesy says she should avail herself of it.



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RE: Breastfeeding In Court? - 11/14/2011 9:35:32 PM   
servantforuse


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I guess I have to ask the bigger question. What ever happened to baby sitters ? Do babies really belong in a court room where a trial is going on ?

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RE: Breastfeeding In Court? - 11/14/2011 9:38:11 PM   
LafayetteLady


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SweetCheri

quote:

So regardless of whether or not breastfeeding in public is "legal," are there times it is simply inappropriate to do so? Is it appropriate during church services? How about in the middle of a wedding ceremony?
No, I do not believe it is ever inappropriate to breastfeed your child.


So it is appropriate to feed your child while you are going to the bathroom, sitting on the toilet? You don't eat dinner there, why should your baby?

If she wasn't breast feeding, but bottle feeding, the same thing likely would have happened. There is an expectation of behavior in court. That would be that the litigants offer their full attention to the judge, which isn't happening if you are breastfeeding.

quote:

quote:

While I do understand that many women want to breastfeed their baby and want to have the right to do when when necessary, do they really have the "right" to do it anywhere, and anytime the need arises?
Yes, I believe they do.


So if the new mom is somewhere that the general public is not allowed to eat or drink, she should feel fine feeding her child? Because the breastfeeders are looking for some "equality" that word that always is going to back fire. If she shopping in a store that doesn't allow food or drink, inappropriate and against store policy to feed baby. Got the equality, because you aren't going to eat or drink either.

quote:


quote:

Or should these women actually take into consideration that there are some places where stepping out of the room is just the "right" thing to do?
When would that be the right thing to do? That's what I can't see.


Obviously, while waiting to have your case heard in court. You simply approach the bailiff, tell him that little janey is hungry and you are going to step into the hallway to feed her so as not to disturb the others in the court room. It's really not that difficult to be considerate of others when you stop seeing the world being all about you and your new baby.

quote:


quote:

If a particluar place provides an area for breastfeeding (not the ladies bathroom), should a person be required to use that room as opposed to breastfeeding anywhere they choose at the facility?
No, though it would be very inconsiderate of one not to. If an appropriate place has been provided that does not overly inconvenience the mother, then common courtesy says she should avail herself of it.



What would say "overly inconveniences" the mother? That a store would rather she not sit on the furniture currently for sale to do this, since it isn't impossible and indeed very likely the kid might spit up during burping all over that nice comfy couch, you weren't planning to buy? The room exists in the facility, it is specific for that purpose, it is not a ladies bathroom, but rather set up in a way to make mom and child comfortable. Yep, I would set that up in a store. I would also point out to women that if they didn't use it, they could leave the store. The ladies room might be overly inconvenient to get to from one end of the store to the other (an issue that arises with age), but that doesn't mean I don't have to use it because it isn't convenient to me.

< Message edited by LafayetteLady -- 11/14/2011 9:40:05 PM >

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RE: Breastfeeding In Court? - 11/14/2011 9:41:12 PM   
LafayetteLady


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No they don't belong in a court room and where I'm from and worked, you didn't bring your baby into court. You had sitter issues, the bailiff approached you right away, got your name and you sat outside.

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RE: Breastfeeding In Court? - 11/14/2011 9:56:56 PM   
NiceButMeanGirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ishtarr
In my opinion, a woman should be able to breastfeed her child in ANY and all locations and situations where it's okay to bottle feed a child.

This. ^^^^

If it's alright to BOTTLE-feed a child somewhere, it should also be alright to BREAST-feed a child there. There are some places where it might be inappropriate but I feel that bottle-feeding should go by the same rules as breast-feeding.

I can absolutely understand how the loud sucking, slurping, and rooting noises that babies can make while nursing can be distracting, since I nursed both mine many years ago and it could be very distracting in a courtroom.

When it's merely a case of "too much exposure," there are ways to nurse a baby without showing one's whole breast. If it could be done over thirty years ago, it can be done today still. Just put a cloth diaper or a burping cloth over the exposed part of the breast and the baby's mouth covers the rest.

NBMG

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RE: Breastfeeding In Court? - 11/14/2011 10:10:17 PM   
LafayetteLady


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There was no statement (to my recollection of the article) that it was over exposure. It was about the activity occuring in the court room, when another option was available. It was a blatent disrespect for the judge and the venue itself.

Oh, and the biggest distraction is that the mother, who now must be focusing on her child is not paying attention what the judge says.

< Message edited by LafayetteLady -- 11/14/2011 10:11:10 PM >

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RE: Breastfeeding In Court? - 11/14/2011 10:44:39 PM   
SweetCheri


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quote:

So it is appropriate to feed your child while you are going to the bathroom, sitting on the toilet?
Yes, while I don't think it would be my first choice of a place to nurse, it is entirely appropriate to do so. In fact, on a toilet in a stall in a public washroom is traditionally where women were expected to nurse when not at home, and in many places where they still are expected to. I don't see how it could be inappropriate for a woman to chose to do so, but not inappropriate for a woman to have to do so.

quote:

If she wasn't breast feeding, but bottle feeding, the same thing likely would have happened. There is an expectation of behavior in court. That would be that the litigants offer their full attention to the judge, which isn't happening if you are breastfeeding.
And what of the many other people in the court who are not litigants at that moment? And how does nursing your child prevent your attorney from doing their job properly? And how does nursing in the courtroom interfere with my ability to pay attention more than leaving the room to nurse would?

quote:

So if the new mom is somewhere that the general public is not allowed to eat or drink, she should feel fine feeding her child?
Yes, of course, the child is unaware of the social conventions that may be in play and its needs are beyond the control of the mother.

quote:

Because the breastfeeders are looking for some "equality" that word that always is going to back fire. If she shopping in a store that doesn't allow food or drink, inappropriate and against store policy to feed baby. Got the equality, because you aren't going to eat or drink either.
I have never heard anybody ask for "equality" in this context, to do so would be silly. Equality with who? Equality compared to what? Breastfeeding is a unique function unrelated to any other. Also, a business's food and drink policies are in place for sanitary, safety, and/or economic reasons. Breastfeeding does not drop crumbs which can rot, it does not make large spills which can cause people to slip, and it does not prevent the store from selling food to its customers.

quote:

Obviously, while waiting to have your case heard in court.
Why would this be so? In what manner would you be disturbing the other people in the courtroom? How is it inconsiderate to do it in a courtroom but not elsewhere? What is in a courtroom that will be disrupted by somebody sitting quietly in the back of the room nursing their child that would not be disturbed by that same person getting up, making there way to the aisle and then approaching the bailiff and discussing leaving the room and then knocking to be readmitted and repeating the whole procedure in reverse?

quote:

What would say "overly inconveniences" the mother?
Reasonable things, like if she had to go up 3 flights of stairs, or if she had to leave the building and go to another building, or if the facility was too small and she had to wait her turn. As a rule of thumb I would say if it were to take her more than 5 or 6 minutes or so to reach it.

Based on your various replies and comments on this thread, I honestly don't think you really care about anybody's answers, you have made up your mind on this matter and do not wish to discuss it. So I'm left wondering why you bothered to ask the questions in the first place?




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RE: Breastfeeding In Court? - 11/14/2011 10:48:51 PM   
SweetCheri


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quote:

It was a blatent disrespect for the judge and the venue itself.
How is that?
quote:

Oh, and the biggest distraction is that the mother, who now must be focusing on her child is not paying attention what the judge says.
How would she pay attention from the hallway?

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RE: Breastfeeding In Court? - 11/14/2011 10:55:25 PM   
DarqueMirror


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet
You are correct, I have not pointed out to any judges that they are not god in their own court room.  That is what appeals are for. 


Actually no, that's not what appeals are for. You can't file an appeal to show a judge he's not god of his court room. You can only do it with appropriate legal merit and precedence. The fact is, even if a case is turned over on appeal, it doesn't mean that what the previous judge says in the confines of his courtroom isn't gospel in his courtroom, it just might mean some new evidence is available or should have been excluded or it could mean a jury didn't understand their instructions completely.

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RE: Breastfeeding In Court? - 11/14/2011 10:56:37 PM   
Rule


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SweetCheri
I'm left wondering why you bothered to ask the questions in the first place?

I dunno. Maybe she lacks breasts?

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RE: Breastfeeding In Court? - 11/14/2011 11:11:29 PM   
Iamsemisweet


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Thank you for explaining appeals.  However, I have and will continue to file appeals when the judge is acting inappropriately, and like a jerk, if I believe it prejudices my client.  Denying someone access to the courtroom is abuse of discretion, and can be appealed.  Fortunately, judges in my County would not behave in such a manner.  If family law courts don't want people bringing their kids to court, then the courthouse needs to be prepared to provide childcare.  It is that simple.  Someone can't be denied justice just because they can't find a babysitter. 
Honestly, having sat through a few hundred dockets in my life, and seeing the hubbub and noise (these aren't dignified procedures), I have trouble believing the wheels of justice will grind to a halt if a mother discreetly feeds her baby.  In fact, I would expect her to do so.  I don't mean jerking out a tit for all the world to see, but beneath a towel or blanket, I can't imagine what the problem is.
People are intimidated and made nervous by the courts.  It is wrong for a judge to take action to deny anyone, including (gasp) a nursing mother, access to the courtroom.  It just might not be as easy as some suppose to fight your way to the front of the courtroom (with a screaming baby) and let the clerk know you were leaving, so when your case was called, when you wouldn't be declared a failure to appear.  And then, where the hell are you supposed to go?  Is it less distracting to nurse in the hallway?  More and more people are appearing pro se now, because they can't afford counsel.  The courtrooms need to be made more user friendly, not less.
Only in America do we supposedly revere motherhood, but make it so hard to be a mother.  What could possibly be shameful about a mother providing care for her child?
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror

quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet
You are correct, I have not pointed out to any judges that they are not god in their own court room.  That is what appeals are for. 


Actually no, that's not what appeals are for. You can't file an appeal to show a judge he's not god of his court room. You can only do it with appropriate legal merit and precedence. The fact is, even if a case is turned over on appeal, it doesn't mean that what the previous judge says in the confines of his courtroom isn't gospel in his courtroom, it just might mean some new evidence is available or should have been excluded or it could mean a jury didn't understand their instructions completely.


< Message edited by Iamsemisweet -- 11/14/2011 11:18:47 PM >


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RE: Breastfeeding In Court? - 11/14/2011 11:20:19 PM   
SweetCheri


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quote:

What could possibly be shameful about a mother providing care for her child?
What could be more beautiful?

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RE: Breastfeeding In Court? - 11/14/2011 11:36:27 PM   
Winterapple


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How can she listen to what the judge says
if she's not in the courtroom?
I agree that a baby should be able to
breastfeed anywhere one can be bottle
fed. A mother nursing her baby is the
most natural thing on earth and in my
opinion one of the most beautiful. And
I say that as someone who isn't wild
about human babies.
There are cultures all over where nursing
a baby is accepted as normal. You see
nursing mothers on buses, in waiting rooms
and no one thinks anything about it.
Uptightness about nursing is a fairly
recent phenomen in the west.
The attitude that it must be done in
private is similiar to the Victorian
prudery that gave us the word drumstick.
It isn't anymore lacking in decorum to
nurse a baby than it is to ask for a
chicken leg.
A nursing infant is not the same as
adults and children eating. Most shops
have no food or drink rules because they
don't wanted cheeto fingers or spills
on the merchandise.
The judge behaved like a asshole.


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RE: Breastfeeding In Court? - 11/14/2011 11:36:57 PM   
CynthiaWVirginia


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Using fast reply.

I hated breast feeding my kid in West Virginia toilets. Often one or two stalls only, and sitting on a toilet and hearing the outside door open and someone knocking on the door with an "Are you done in there YET???" shut down my letdown reflex. Instead of squirting into my baby's mouth so that all he had to do was swallow, he would suck and get almost nothing and then raise holy Hell.

It was much better in the San Fernando Valley in California. The area was loaded with Hispanics who whipped out their breasts everywhere to feed their babies and nobody thought anything of it. I think it is laughable that we forget a breast's natural function and take it away from the babies to save it for sexual stuff only. Gah. All the tits and ass on tv and on billboards and magazines...we see these daily and don't even blink because it is so "normal", but let some woman feed her baby and the world comes to a screeching halt.

If I ever would have to go to court, to heck with dressing for the occasion. I am poor and will always be poor and I am not buying some expensive clothing and shoes and stockings that I will never wear again. The money would probably buy my son a few pairs of jeans. If someone wore that shirt about the villiage idiot, I would enjoy wearing one that said, "Here I am! My villiage got lost..." Gawd I hate it that clothes are used to help people put on airs; if they are decently covered who cares what they are wearing. I have gone to (and abandoned) some churches where what others wore was much more important than our bible study...

I did not read the article. I am too biased and disgusted over this entire issue because of the misery I went through trying to breastfeed my own kid. When the milk ducts are full and the kid is hungry, it feels like razor blades behind the nipple...I wanted it OUT, lol. Stepping into a hallway maybe full of burglars, drug dealers, guys that stab each other in dark alleys...yep, just the place I'd want to be breastfeeding my kid. Breastfeeding is easier if one can relax, and our messed up culture makes this almost impossible except within our own home. Someone discreetly breastfeeding her baby in the back row...did everyone in the court rubberneck or turn in their seats to face the back row so they could get some voyeuristic jolly over a woman feeding her kid? If nobody looked, who else was feeling a disruption? Was the judge watching her tit and get distracted?

Time to gag myself. Rant over. Sort of. I wish that the courts would get clogged up with lots of nursing mothers, that lactating tits would be seen from one end of the halls to the next so that the American public would see this as normal and not some shameful sexual act that needs to be kept hidden away.

We used to hide people with disabilities away...so that the general public's delicate sensibilities were not offended.

Imagine in a court...I've sat in one only half a dozen times or so just to hear what happens and what the most common things were...I have heard people admit to indecorous (sp?) shrieking, hairpulling cat fights, drunken bar fights, etc. Amazing that a baby breastfeeding is more shocking and less tolerated.

Now I really mean it this time, lol. Rant over. Am too tired and recovering to find my way back here but I had to put in my two cents.

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RE: Breastfeeding In Court? - 11/14/2011 11:40:15 PM   
Winterapple


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A fairly recent phenomenon. Left out a few letters.

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RE: Breastfeeding In Court? - 11/14/2011 11:46:12 PM   
SweetCheri


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ca arrive

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RE: Breastfeeding In Court? - 11/14/2011 11:55:34 PM   
Winterapple


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I imagine any number of harried nursing mothers
have had to nurse a baby while on the toilet.
Getting up in the middle of a church service
or a wedding is more noisy and distracting than
discreetly putting a baby to the breast.
And at least the noises a nursing baby
makes are happy noises.
Coughing, throat clearing, seat squirming,
whispering and knuckle cracking are
far more irritating.

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RE: Breastfeeding In Court? - 11/14/2011 11:56:05 PM   
DarqueMirror


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet
Thank you for explaining appeals.  However, I have and will continue to file appeals when the judge is acting inappropriately, and like a jerk, if I believe it prejudices my client.


Don't move the goal posts now. You said "the judge is not god in his courtroom," when in fact he is. You said nothing originally about him acting inappropriately. That's completely different. So long as he *is* acting appropriately, he is 'god" in his courtroom. And there's nothing inappropriate about telling someone to leave when they are being distracting.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet
Denying someone access to the courtroom is abuse of discretion, and can be appealed. 


No it's not. And no it can't be. It's not like he banned a defendant during her case. He sent a woman out whose case hadn't been called yet. There's nothing to appeal. All that needs to happen is for the bailiff to go get her when her case comes up and she can have her case heard.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet
Fortunately, judges in my County would not behave in such a manner.  If family law courts don't want people bringing their kids to court, then the courthouse needs to be prepared to provide childcare. 


Really? Since when is it the court's responsibility to take care of a person's child? The court didn't make the choice to have the kid.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet
It is that simple.  Someone can't be denied justice just because they can't find a babysitter. 


And in the case in this thread, no one was. Someone waiting to be called was sent out of the courtroom to wait. It's really not that big of an issue.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet
What could possibly be shameful about a mother providing care for her child?


No one ever said anything about shame. The judge said it was distracting and inappropriate. Personally, I'd like to know when motherhood became so "revered" as to make nursing mothers into the proverbial 800-pound gorillas that can do whatever they like, whenever they like.

Whatever happened to decorum and personal decency?

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RE: Breastfeeding In Court? - 11/14/2011 11:58:30 PM   
DarqueMirror


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Winterapple
How can she listen to what the judge says if she's not in the courtroom?


Simple. When it's her turn, the bailiff goes to get her. It ain't rocket science.

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RE: Breastfeeding In Court? - 11/15/2011 12:02:17 AM   
SweetCheri


Posts: 228
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From: Hopefully in my place.
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quote:

Personally, I'd like to know when motherhood became so "revered" as to make nursing mothers into the proverbial 800-pound gorillas that can do whatever they like, whenever they like.
About the time the species began. It is, after all, the whole point of it all.

quote:

Whatever happened to decorum and personal decency?
And how exactly does nursing a child offend against either of those?


_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 40
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