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RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/16/2011 10:42:14 PM

TheRaptorJesus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pissdoll

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Do ?

Show me a victim, and not one of these neuvovictims who don't have a scratch on them. Show me a victim. If we stray from the premise that a crime must have a victim you are going into very dangerous territory in your country.

T^T

OMG...i actually agree with Term!!!

last i checked, we still had the freedom of speech.
that includes stuff that is wonderfully goodhearted and stuff that is horrid and evil.
so a bunch of college kids have fantasies about raping other college kids.
BIG DEAL. it's a FANTASY.

"I'm going to fucking kill you with a gun after making you watch me torture your family?"

It's totally cool to say, it's just a fantasy.

Oh wait, that's idiotic.

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RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/16/2011 10:44:54 PM

searching4mysir

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

W H O
G O T
R A P E D ?

Terroristic threat.

A college campus is not like CM where "rape" is consensual. The very real threat of rape would be terrorizing to these women.

< Message edited by searching4mysir -- 12/16/2011 10:48:11 PM >

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RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/16/2011 10:52:15 PM

Termyn8or

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quote:

"I'm going to fucking kill you with a gun after making you watch me torture your family?"

How about next Tuesday. Bring enough bags for youselves.

T^T

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RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/16/2011 11:21:16 PM

seababy

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Angry people on the internet are funny.

Your a very funny guy. I always imagine you red faced and shouting your posts with spit flying and a big angry vein on your forehead looking like its gonna pop.

As to who has been raped? Well there are many people have been raped in various communities including there being sexual assaults on this particular campus.
If I was a student on campus with a history of being sexually assaulted I would not see this as just boys being boys or harmless fun. I would see it as bolstering a rape culture within the university and the objectifying of women and the minimising of the act of rape instead of it being seen as a violent repellent act..
So even though these guys didn't plan to act on this list I believe that it does harm our society.
I'm sure the students involved have never thought deeply about this action. I see this as an education issue.

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RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/17/2011 2:50:29 AM

FrostedFlake

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I have done some dumb things in my time, but really...

When an entire frat house starts talking about rape in a "Who would you do?" format, it's like kids playing with fire. You only have to set the house on fire once. Even if 49 of these guys don't take it that way, if just one of them does, cause and effect. Russian roulette.

It may be glib, but it seems to me the actual intellect of a crowd is best estimated by adding up all the IQ points in it and dividing by the SQUARE of the number of heads. In this case the number would be 2.

And don't forget, there's BEER.

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RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/17/2011 3:36:43 AM

kalikshama

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FR,

A Free Press reader, commenting on the paper's website, wrote: "In an odd coincidence, my little girl was accepted to UVM today. Would she have made the list of girls that the frat boys would like to rape? ... This is simply not OK."

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RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/17/2011 3:49:36 AM

notthetongs

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Ugh. Imagine being one of the girls on that list and finding out. You'd never feel safe at parties, you'd be paranoid about dating, walking anywhere by yourself would become scary.

I don't really understand why the guys who took part in that thought it was acceptable to casually name people they want to inflict with non-consensual acts of violence and trauma.

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RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/17/2011 3:50:47 AM

kalikshama

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1 out of 5 college women will be sexually assaulted and "Name who you would like to rape on campus" is inimicable to reducing that statistic.

Rape on campus
Do universities do enough to prevent and condemn campus sexual assaults?

It’s supposed to be the best four years of your life. But five young women “Dateline” spoke to say that for them, college turned into something very different.

Five college students who say they were sexually assaulted on campus. But this is a story of how their universities handled their cases. When each of these women reported being attacked by a fellow student, did their schools act quickly or strongly enough?

Annie, Kate and Samantha, went to the University of Virginia, Georgetown and William and Mary. All three say they were raped by fellow students their freshman year of college. All three reported the alleged assaults to school officials.

...Annie’s alleged assailant wasn’t expelled or suspended from UVA — instead he was ordered to stay away from Annie, and required to attend counseling.

Annie: It was disgusting. It was, you know, it said that anything that I was worth, I was worth a restraining order?

All the more infuriating, Annie says, when compared to UVA’s strict academic honor code. Students are automatically expelled if they violate it, by say cheating on an exam.

Kotb: Everyone knows that if you cheat, you’re out. If you steal, you’re out. If you lie, you’re out.

Annie: If you rape, you graduate.

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RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/17/2011 4:25:39 AM

DarkSteven

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Do ?

Show me a victim, and not one of these neuvovictims who don't have a scratch on them. Show me a victim. If we stray from the premise that a crime must have a victim you are going into very dangerous territory in your country.

T^T

Nope. This is the difference between being a kid, when you can essentially say or do anything you want, and a grownup, where you have to think of the implications of your acts. Your argument is that no criminal acts have occurred, which is true. But just because the criminal acts have not yet occurred doesn't mean this is okay.

1. The universities have an obligation toward their students to keep them safe. This means having lights on campus, discouraging excessive drinking, etc. Rapes WILL occur simply because you have young men and women, flooded with hormones and living away from their parents for the first time, with large amounts of alcohol and little world experience. But the university could be liable if they are held to not be doing everything reasonable to discourage rape.

If the university allowed that fraternity to continue operating after the survey, they would be seen as irresponsible and would lose every lawsuit brought against them by raped students, for not preventing rape adequately.

2. From a business point of view, a university needs to project a positive image. This is necessary to get new students, to attract faculty, and to keep funding. If this is not dealt with promptly and decisively, parents will send their children elsewhere, faculty will think of the university as a resume stain, and legislators will face pressure from constituents to reduce funding for the school.

This is a case where no laws have been broken, but it damaged the image of the school. With consequences for the school, and for the dumb kids who did it.

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RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/17/2011 4:30:55 AM

Ninebelowzero

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By doing nothing the University is tacitly approving this behaviour, although I loathe all kinds of censorship & nannyism, this does need stamping on.

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RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/17/2011 4:36:09 AM

thishereboi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pissdoll

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Do ?

Show me a victim, and not one of these neuvovictims who don't have a scratch on them. Show me a victim. If we stray from the premise that a crime must have a victim you are going into very dangerous territory in your country.

T^T

OMG...i actually agree with Term!!!

last i checked, we still had the freedom of speech.
that includes stuff that is wonderfully goodhearted and stuff that is horrid and evil.
so a bunch of college kids have fantasies about raping other college kids.
BIG DEAL. it's a FANTASY.

Freedom of speech does not cover assault and saying you are going to physically harm someone else is assault.

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RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/17/2011 6:46:34 AM

slvemike4u

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Disgusting on the part of the ferternity and all those who feel this is a "freedom of speech" issue and nothing more.

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RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/17/2011 6:58:53 AM

DaddySatyr

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Actually, these young men might be in danger of criminal prosecution and heaven forbid if one of these ladies ever gets raped by anyone who saw this list. At that point, a conviction becomes almost a foregone conclusion. I'm thinking: "Conspiracy" which is very easy to prosecute and convict upon.

I have been a strong proponent of free speech for a long time and I believe that the free exchange of ideas has been limited by political correctness to the degree of stupidity but, I think there are some ideals upon which we can all agree and one of them should be that even the seeming indifference to rape (forget rape, itself) should not be tolerated.

Were this list: "Who would you like to fuck ..." I'd be telling anyone with anything negative to say to sit down and shut up but just the changing of that one word, to me, raises this to almost criminal behavior and these young men need to make it their life's work to protect each lady whose name appears on that list.

Peace and comfort,

Michael

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RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/17/2011 7:10:57 AM

tj444

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FR

there is freedom of speech and then there is hate speech.. imo this "survey" was hate speech..

And, imo, the names of the guys that participated, including those responding with names of girls, that list should be made public so the girls know who to watch out for..

jmo..

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RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/17/2011 7:21:20 AM

DaddySatyr

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Well, let's be very clear, here. "Freedom of speech" only protects us from prosecution for what we say. I think that this case borders on prosecution for conspiracy, as I said.

I also think that distributing those names - even to the point of printing them in the paper - is a completely appropriate response (and is covered by the free speech rights of the people or newspapers that make those names public).

These young men, who probably believed that they were engaging in some harmless fun, need to learn a lesson; that what they were doing was not "harmless fun" but was, instead, (at best) a crass exhibition of nearly atrocious behavior and maybe the stain of public humiliation will help drive that point home.

Peace and comfort,

Michael

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RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/17/2011 7:39:37 AM

GreedyTop

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well said, Michael.. both posts..

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RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/17/2011 7:41:06 AM

samboct

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I'm going to throw out a different opinion here...

The actions of the frat boys are illustrating how "good" intentions can backfire- or how distortions intended to create fear have lead to trivializing crimes.

There's a big problem with rape statistics out there: no one agrees on the definition of rape. The statistics showing that one in five women on campus will be raped- well, it's really- have you had any unwanted sexual contact during your four years? Not surprisingly, a lot of women say yes. Apparently surprisingly, so do a lot of men. In order to generate funding and scare people- this got termed rape or perhaps more correctly- date rape.

However, most men and even frat boys have a very different view of what rape is. Their definition is it's a sexual assault on a person without their consent and done forcefully with the threat of murder or physical violence. By conflating date rape and what has traditionally been viewed as rape, the statistics are wildly inflated and people are scared. The frat boys reaction of saying "who would you like to rape?"- well, one way of looking at at is mocking the ridiculous rape statistics. There's no denying its in very poor taste- but lampooning cultural idiosyncracies is one form of speech that does need to be protected.

The problem with viewing date rape as a crime is that the lines are so damn blurry. Yes, someone who slips a date a drug- well, that's pretty clear- except is imbibing a bottle of wine with your date a date rape drug? What about the girl who whispers in a guy's ear- "I like rough sex." and then come the morning, she's saying that she was raped- she didn't want it that rough? Can someone come up with another crime where the person committing it doesn't recognize that it was a criminal act at the time? Seems to me that in the case of traditional rape (which is getting trivialized here), the person doing the act knows damn well that what they're doing is illegal. A lot of the problem around this situation is that when people are aroused- they're not acting with their full sense of cognition intact- and this is one of those areas where nature wins out. We may be able to educate humans not to murder each other on a whim-but to not get excited when having sex?

Let me throw out another example of how statistics can warp our reactions- and another crime that scares and inflames people- kidnap. Well, the movie Ransom got it right- there are really only a 100-200 stranger kidnappings/yr in the US. Most of the kids on milk cartons or reported missing are either runaways or taken by parents who didn't get custody rights. If you include these kids with the stranger kidnappings- well, the numbers dwarf stranger kidnappings by orders of magnitude but picking up your own kid is not kidnapping in the traditional sense of the word. Unfortunately, the reaction of a lot of mothers is to not allow their kids out of the house- feeling that they're safer watching TV inside than playing on a playground in a safe neighborhood, hence contributing to the growth of obesity in children- a disease which will claim far more lives than stranger kidnapping. The media, playing to any means of attracting readership, has created a terrifying situation which simply doesn't exist. Nor has there been an explosion in the number of rapes with assault- but by playing up this story, the media attracts readers, campus cops get to carry guns (most of them shouldn't be given anything more deadly than a water pistol) and lawyers get to charge hefty fees for defending boys from "crimes" that they didn't commit.

Can we please get a handle on scaremongering?

Sam

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RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/17/2011 7:51:06 AM

DaddySatyr

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quote:

ORIGINAL: samboct

Can we please get a handle on scaremongering?

Sam

I will agree with you on some of your premise.

The first time I ever heard about "date rape" was a young lady on the Oprah Winfrey show (circa 1986 or 87) and her story came down to: "I said 'NO'. He talked me into it. The next day I felt like a tramp. I felt guilt so, naturally, I'd been raped." I agree that that kind of "definition" of rape not only trivializes actual rape but it stains people who are really guilty of nothing more than being smooth-talking horn dogs.

Having said that; I don't think you can know what might have been going on in the mind of each respondent when they gave their answers nor the minds of the originators of this "poll". I think the word "rape", taken at its face value, is what is at issue, here.

I know that there are younger people that throw that word around (I have a 23 year old son and I have spent some time with him and his friends) but, I think that they can also differentiate between throwing a word around and understanding that someone else might have a different understanding of the word than just their close circle of friends.

I could be wrong, I suppose but, I am not wrong about one thing: There's no way that we can know what was going on in their minds so, to me, that is not a valid defense.

Peace and comfort,

Michael

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RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/17/2011 8:08:16 AM

tj444

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quote:

ORIGINAL: samboct
There's a big problem with rape statistics out there:

Yeah, a big problem.. and that is that they are massively under-reported..

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RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/17/2011 8:16:41 AM

barelynangel

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This isn't a criminal concept Termyn8or. It can be construed as a threat to commit harm. While that isn't criminal in many arenas it can constitute someone being fired, someone being kicked out of someplace, and in this case a group getting their license withdrawn.

How would you like it if some guy say he'd like to rape you?   For all you know that is just the surface speaking however, it could mean that his need for power over you is growing and growing and for all you know, it could become something he decides to put into action. After all, what's the big deal talking about it.

I could see if the story was who do you want to have sex with -- okay yeah. But rape? You do know what rape is yes? For most people its a criminal action and a concept that isn't about having sex.   It's these kids indicating that it's not about sex but about power and the need to control and rape for most people is a violent act.

You seem okay with this, but perhaps you shouldn't be so accepting of same. Is there a victim -- sure there is, maybe not in a criminal concept, but how would you like it if some guy indicated he wanted to RAPE you.   While he hasn't hurt you, just the fact there is some guy out there who would like to do what YOUR mind defines as rape, that emotional toll is a victim.   There are victims here Termyn8tor, that you fail to see that makes me wonder if you grasp the connotation most women have with regard to strangers indicating they want to rape them.     IF these boys were saying this about their girlfriends and the girlfriends felt safe in the concept -- okay then, but that isn't what this is -- and you aren't that obtuse to see that.

And i am a person who has no issue with the concept of "slave rape" because i know what it is. However, MOST women and i would say men aren't speaking about that but consider rape in and of itself especially by a stranger, to be the concept of violence, pain, saying no and meaning it, and harm to them as well as being ultimately violated, helpless and yes, a victim. So it's odd you would take this concept of a man saying he wants to rape a stranger who is a woman and names her as there being no victims. There are victims -- just not yet the victim of a crime.

angel

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 12/17/2011 8:24:54 AM >

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