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RE: Dom saying I'm sorry - 12/22/2011 12:19:28 PM

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FR

Any Dom that won't admit to be wrong when they have done something wrong, they are either in denial or to self absorbed. Everybody fucks up from time to time, no matter who the person is. If a person can't acknowledge their mistakes and fess up to them, they are only setting themselves up for failure.

If My screw up has a negative effect on somebody, I will apologize for it. Its a respect thing. Fear doesn't play a part in the respect I give or the respect that I like to get.

Does a Man make a Dom oor does a Dom make a Man? A Man makes Himself. If that's Dom, sub, Switch, vanilla, prick, asshole....its His own doing.

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RE: Dom saying I'm sorry - 12/22/2011 12:25:01 PM

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quote:

Yesterday was not a good day.....which has left me pondering a few questions (and about getting the fuck out of it). Such as does being a Dom mean you don't have to say "I'm sorry" or "I was wrong"? Does it also mean that he can twist something around to the point of it being an outright lie ok because he is the Dom? And because he is a Dom, the sub cannot call him on it because that would be crossing a boundary or showing disrespect? Is making a sub feel like shit one of the Dom's prerogatives? Does the Dom make the man or does the man make the Dom?

It takes courage to admit you are wrong about something and apologize for it and I see courage as an essential quality for a Dom.

quote:

And above all, is a certain low level of fear of the Dom keep the respect where it needs to be?

I like my slave to fear my displeasure because she knows that will mean punishment... but I never want her to be afraid of me.

In other words, she should fear being displeasing because that will likely bring a whipping... but if a whipping should come about she should not have to fear that things will go too far.

< Message edited by Marc2b -- 12/22/2011 12:26:09 PM >

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RE: Dom saying I'm sorry - 12/22/2011 1:05:16 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: anniezz338

Yesterday was not a good day.....which has left me pondering a few questions (and about getting the fuck out of it). Such as does being a Dom mean you don't have to say "I'm sorry" or "I was wrong"? Does it also mean that he can twist something around to the point of it being an outright lie ok because he is the Dom? And because he is a Dom, the sub cannot call him on it because that would be crossing a boundary or showing disrespect? Is making a sub feel like shit one of the Dom's prerogatives? Does the Dom make the man or does the man make the Dom?

And above all, is a certain low level of fear of the Dom keep the respect where it needs to be?

"Dom" is what he calls himself.

Arsehole devoid of principles and values is what he IS.

Doesn't matter what your relationship dynamic; the question is, is someone (*anyone*) you can't trust the right partner for you? He is what he is - and you're enabling it by staying....

Focus.

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(in reply to anniezz338)

RE: Dom saying I'm sorry - 12/22/2011 1:09:20 PM

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thanks for everyone's insightful input....yes, even the admonishments :). And even though this was part vent/part honest questions, all the responses were great and i got something from every one of them. Sometimes we can't see the forest for the trees. thanks again

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RE: Dom saying I'm sorry - 12/22/2011 1:11:22 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: anniezz338

Yesterday was not a good day.....which has left me pondering a few questions (and about getting the fuck out of it). Such as does being a Dom mean you don't have to say "I'm sorry" or "I was wrong"? Does it also mean that he can twist something around to the point of it being an outright lie ok because he is the Dom? And because he is a Dom, the sub cannot call him on it because that would be crossing a boundary or showing disrespect? Is making a sub feel like shit one of the Dom's prerogatives? Does the Dom make the man or does the man make the Dom?

And above all, is a certain low level of fear of the Dom keep the respect where it needs to be?

Im going to say we dont have enough information to make a call.

Does he never say he is sorry, or is this just one instance where he refuses? Is it really a lie, or could it be that you both are seeing this issue from different perspectives?

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(in reply to anniezz338)

RE: Dom saying I'm sorry - 12/22/2011 1:15:26 PM

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Master and I talk all the time and when he feels he's wrong he apologizes. It's not beneath him and he'll swallow his pride. He wants us to have a good relationship, not one based on lies and anger.

We both apologize when we know we're wrong and we do things to change whatever it is that needs to be fixed for our relationship to survive.

And I respect him for the person he is, not because I fear him. Yeah there are things I fear about him that he may do to me but I don't fear him as a person. I love him.

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Everything has changed

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RE: Dom saying I'm sorry - 12/22/2011 1:51:45 PM

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I agree with the posters that say this isn't about Domliness or Submissiveness, it's about strength of character.

If you're clearly in the wrong and you don't have the moral courage to accept responsibility and apologise then you're a weakling. Period.

That said, as LaTigresse point out - it's not always cut and dried.

Now, my general rule is that if in communicating with someone they take offence when none was intended, I'm bound to apologise for my failure in communicating - but I'm buggered if I'm going to apologise for the "offence" since I didn't commit it!

So if I responded to someone in haste, or my response was coloured by my having had a bad day, I'd be bound to say "I'm sorry I put it that way, and I'm sorry that I allowed my bad mood to affect the way I relate to you" But again, I'm not going to apologise for an inference that was drawn when none was implied.

My advice to you is this... (and if you've tried these before - then move on to the next one).

Talk to your Dom.

If it's a problem of communication, then iron it out.

If it's something your Dom simply doesn't feel is "wrong" but which you do - You have a choice; You can compromise and accept the difference of opinion, or you can decide that the difference in opinion is too great to be supportable - in which case you bail.

If it's something you believe your Dom knows is wrong, but they're too much of a weakling to acknowledge it then you bail.

If on talking to your Dom you help him understand the effect his communication style has on you and he's genuinely bothered by the fact, and apologises for not paying better attention, then you're all good!

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(in reply to anniezz338)

RE: Dom saying I'm sorry - 12/22/2011 3:32:15 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: anniezz338
Yesterday was not a good day.....which has left me pondering a few questions (and about getting the fuck out of it). Such as does being a Dom mean you don't have to say "I'm sorry" or "I was wrong"?

No. That's not how it works. It doesn't matter who or what you are, if you are wrong you should man the fuck up and admit your fault. That takes courage and strength of character, and a lack thereof is not a trait I see as "dominant." My Master and I both apologize to each other if we feel we've wronged the other. He apologizes because he feels sorry for hurting me or making a mistake, and he feels sorry for that because he loves and respects me. He's not "above" apologizing just because he's the one in charge. That's petty and immature.

quote:

ORIGINAL: anniezz338
Does it also mean that he can twist something around to the point of it being an outright lie ok because he is the Dom?

Absolutely not. Lying from either side of the relationship is unacceptable and destroys the fabric of the relationship from the inside out. We must be honest with each other, because we must trust each other. If he lies and twists the truth, how can I trust him? Trust is essential.

quote:

ORIGINAL: anniezz338
And because he is a Dom, the sub cannot call him on it because that would be crossing a boundary or showing disrespect?

That doesn't sound right either. I'm allowed, and also required, to "call him out" on anything that doesn't seem right to me. He wants to hear what I think and he wants my advice and opinions to help him put things into perspective. He respects me and my mind, and thus it's nothing short of helpful to and appreciated by him when I speak up.

quote:

ORIGINAL: anniezz338
Is making a sub feel like shit one of the Dom's prerogatives?

No. I imagine some people are into that sort of thing, but I am most certainly not, and neither is my Master. I don't like feeling like shit and he doesn't like it when I feel like shit. He loves me, he wants me to be happy. Why would he intentionally put me down?

quote:

ORIGINAL: anniezz338
Does the Dom make the man or does the man make the Dom?

I'm not quite sure I understand the question. Everything he is is just a part of who he is as a person. And who he is as a person is an honorable and respectable man. He would not be my Master if I did not love, trust, and respect him. Ask yourself, is he someone who you respect and trust as a person? If not, why are you in this situation?

quote:

ORIGINAL: anniezz338
And above all, is a certain low level of fear of the Dom keep the respect where it needs to be?

Absolutely not. As searching4mysir said, if I feared my Master, I couldn't trust him. And if I couldn't trust him, I could not respect him. I respect him because he is an amazing, brilliant, and strong man. I don't fear him and I don't need to. I trust him with every part of me, and this would be impossible if I were to be afraid of him.

I hope all of this helps and I hope you find your own answers to your questions soon enough. :)

(in reply to anniezz338)

RE: Dom saying I'm sorry - 12/22/2011 3:36:52 PM

BikerDomRealTime

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For me, if I am wrong about something I admit it, especially when it comes to 'wronging' my girl. I am not so full of myself that I cannot say that I am wrong and ask for forgiveness. There is no honor, no self respect in twisting things around so it always is the girl's fault. I am human, just like my girl and everyone else and I make mistakes. When I make them, I hopefully learn from them and is foregiven for them.

(in reply to RaspberryLemon)

RE: Dom saying I'm sorry - 12/22/2011 4:27:57 PM

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Here it means he has the responsibility to lead the relationship so that it will endure and be strong. Which means apologizing instead of causing distance and resentment. Which means leading by example, so that if he wants honesty he has to give it. Which means if he wants vulnerability he also must be emotionally vulnerable. No hypocrisy, no short term gratification that causes long term damage.

If this is the kind of man you can respect, admire and esteem, then continue the relationship. If not, then take time after ending it to figure out why you find a liar attractive.

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RE: Dom saying I'm sorry - 12/22/2011 4:59:08 PM

Toppingfrmbottom

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None of my doms have ever refused to say they were sorry when they fucked up, or that they had fucked up.

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RE: Dom saying I'm sorry - 12/22/2011 5:55:32 PM

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If someone cant admit they are wrong .. that would make them perfect. And that within itself is flawed.

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RE: Dom saying I'm sorry - 12/22/2011 6:51:52 PM

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I agree with i think it was LaTigresse, your bringing the situation public like this would be a major no no in any relationship i had, especially when you are only venting YOUR side of it. To the public? Seriously?

To me, i think you have some apologizing of your own to do, even if he doesn't care or you think he doesn't -- have you really represented a Man you call your dom with respect publically?

This action of yours tells me your relationship is over -- NOT because he won't apologize but because you have no respect for him, yourself or your relationship by posting this. So in the end, does it matter if he apologizes? Your respect is gone, your consideration of him and your relationship is gone, your integrity towards him is gone.

Maybe you don't get what i am saying but your post here tells me you fully have no more respect for him or your relationship.

angel

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What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
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RE: Dom saying I'm sorry - 12/22/2011 8:48:33 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: anniezz338

Yesterday was not a good day.....which has left me pondering a few questions (and about getting the fuck out of it). Such as does being a Dom mean you don't have to say "I'm sorry" or "I was wrong"? Does it also mean that he can twist something around to the point of it being an outright lie ok because he is the Dom? And because he is a Dom, the sub cannot call him on it because that would be crossing a boundary or showing disrespect? Is making a sub feel like shit one of the Dom's prerogatives? Does the Dom make the man or does the man make the Dom?

And above all, is a certain low level of fear of the Dom keep the respect where it needs to be?

1) For some people, apologies are difficult.
2) Does the dom think he was wrong? Your thinking he was wrong doesn't necessarily make it so.
3) Outright lying isn't okay... but is it an outright lie or is it a difference of perception.
4) As for calling him on it, as DaddySatyr pointed out there are ways to do that respectfully... or not.
5) Generally speaking, one can not make you feel like shit without your permission.

6) Fear of what, exactly: fear of him losing his temper with you, fear of losing the relationship if it is important to you, fear of not being worthy, fear of punishment?

How would you feel if said dom in question talked about you?

Do you personally think that was a respectful action to take?

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(in reply to anniezz338)

RE: Dom saying I'm sorry - 12/22/2011 10:21:14 PM

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I have permission to post and ask questions here within a certain criteria and i have stayed within that criteria. I met him from the other side, he has been a member for many years but does not come to the forums because one of his subs asked a question here and got blasted for several pages. I do not know anymore than that because i did not ask. He can talk about me however he chooses.

I could have and should have worded things differently here and all i can do is own that as being an imperfect human. It was definitely not worded that way when we discussed these issues. Yes, they have been discussed to a degree.....i'm hurt and he is aggravated and we both know that is how each other feels right now. Our contact today was congenial but we both know now is not the time to continue the discussion.

I do not have the luxury of years of experience in this lifestyle. He does feel a certain level of fear is healthy and he has never said he is sorry for anything. And a few things were twisted in such a way that they became untruths, that is for certain. Things that were said and done by him, not me. and he knows it.

I needed different perspectives on this and i did not know where to turn. And i am truly grateful for those that took their time to give their perspective. I do not know how all this is going to wash out, though it does not look good. And maybe some other people new to this lifestyle will read this thread and get more insight on some issues they may be having but are afraid to ask. I felt there were some great responses.

Thanks again.

< Message edited by anniezz338 -- 12/22/2011 10:24:24 PM >

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I had become insane, with horrific lapses of sanity. Edgar Allen Poe

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RE: Dom saying I'm sorry - 12/23/2011 4:22:05 AM

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quote:

He does feel a certain level of fear is healthy and he has never said he is sorry for anything.

Perhaps that MO works for him. The real question is - does it work for you? Look, if you were dead set against poly but it was his thing, clearly you two would not be compatible.

My ex D and I were arguing on the phone while he was driving. He got a speeding ticket. I told him it was my fault for pissing him off, which was what he wanted to hear. Not knowing when one is wrong and taking responsibility for it is a major moral failure, IMO.

(in reply to anniezz338)

RE: Dom saying I'm sorry - 12/23/2011 4:34:11 AM

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If you have success with these strategies, you're likely dealing with someone with Narcissistic Personality Disorder

The TEN DO'S
How to Make your Narcissist Dependent on You
If you INSIST on Staying with Him

1. Listen attentively to everything the narcissist says and agree with it all. Don't believe a word of it but let it slide as if everything is just fine, business as usual.
2. Personally offer something absolutely unique to the narcissist which they cannot obtain anywhere else. Also be prepared to line up future sources of primary Narcissistic Supply for your narcissist because you will not be IT for very long, if at all. If you take over the procuring function for the narcissist, they become that much more dependent on you which makes it a bit tougher for them to pull their haughty stuff – an inevitability, in any case.
3. Be endlessly patient and go way out of your way to be accommodating, thus keeping the narcissistic supply flowing liberally, and keeping the peace (relatively speaking).
4. Be endlessly giving. This one may not be attractive to you, but it is a take it or leave it proposition.
5. Be absolutely emotionally and financially independent of the narcissist. Take what you need: the excitement and engulfment and refuse to get upset or hurt when the narcissist does or says something dumb, rude, or insensitive. Yelling back works really well but should be reserved for special occasions when you fear your narcissist may be on the verge of leaving you; the silent treatment is better as an ordinary response, but it must be carried out without any emotional content, more with the air of boredom and "I'll talk to you later, when I am good and ready, and when you are behaving in a more reasonable fashion".
6. If your narcissist is cerebral and NOT interested in having much sex – then give yourself ample permission to have "hidden" sex with other people. Your cerebral narcissist will not be indifferent to infidelity so discretion and secrecy is of paramount importance.
7. If your narcissist is somatic and you don't mind, join in on group sex encounters but make sure that you choose properly for your narcissist. They are heedless and very undiscriminating in respect of sexual partners and that can get very problematic (STDs and blackmail come to mind).
8. If you are a "fixer", then focus on fixing situations, preferably before they become "situations". Don't for one moment delude yourself that you can FIX the narcissist – it simply will not happen. Not because they are being stubborn – they just simply can't be fixed.
9. If there is any fixing that can be done, it is to help your narcissist become aware of their condition, and this is VERY IMPORTANT, with no negative implications or accusations in the process at all. It is like living with a physically handicapped person and being able to discuss, calmly, unemotionally, what the limitations and benefits of the handicap are and how the two of you can work with these factors, rather than trying to change them.
10. Finally, and most important of all: KNOW YOURSELF.
What are you getting from the relationship? Are you actually a masochist? A codependent perhaps? Why is this relationship attractive and interesting?
Define for yourself what good and beneficial things you believe you are receiving in this relationship.
Define the things that you find harmful TO YOU. Develop strategies to minimize the harm to yourself. Don't expect that you will cognitively be able to reason with the narcissist to change who they are. You may have some limited success in getting your narcissist to tone down on the really harmful behaviours THAT AFFECT YOU. This can only be accomplished in a very trusting, frank and open relationship.

FIVE DON'T DO'S
How to Avoid the Wrath of the Narcissist

1. Never disagree with the narcissist or contradict him;
2. Never offer him any [emotional] intimacy;
3. Look awed by whatever attribute matters to him (for instance: by his professional achievements or by his good looks, or by his success with women and so on);
4. Never remind him of life out there and if you do, connect it somehow to his sense of grandiosity;
5. Do not make any comment, which might directly or indirectly impinge on his self-image, omnipotence, judgment, omniscience, skills, capabilities, professional record, or even omnipresence. Bad sentences start with: "I think you overlooked ... made a mistake here ... you don't know ... do you know ... you were not here yesterday so ... you cannot ... you should ... (perceived as rude imposition, narcissists react very badly to restrictions placed on their freedom) ... I (never mention the fact that you are a separate, independent entity, narcissists regard others as extensions of their selves, their internalization processes were screwed up and they did not differentiate properly) ..." You get the gist of it.

http://samvak.tripod.com/abusefamily19.html

(in reply to kalikshama)

RE: Dom saying I'm sorry - 12/23/2011 6:13:00 AM

lizi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: anniezz338

I have permission to post and ask questions here within a certain criteria and i have stayed within that criteria. I met him from the other side, he has been a member for many years but does not come to the forums because one of his subs asked a question here and got blasted for several pages. I do not know anymore than that because i did not ask. He can talk about me however he chooses.

I could have and should have worded things differently here and all i can do is own that as being an imperfect human. It was definitely not worded that way when we discussed these issues. Yes, they have been discussed to a degree.....i'm hurt and he is aggravated and we both know that is how each other feels right now. Our contact today was congenial but we both know now is not the time to continue the discussion.

I do not have the luxury of years of experience in this lifestyle. He does feel a certain level of fear is healthy and he has never said he is sorry for anything. And a few things were twisted in such a way that they became untruths, that is for certain. Things that were said and done by him, not me. and he knows it.

I needed different perspectives on this and i did not know where to turn. And i am truly grateful for those that took their time to give their perspective. I do not know how all this is going to wash out, though it does not look good. And maybe some other people new to this lifestyle will read this thread and get more insight on some issues they may be having but are afraid to ask. I felt there were some great responses.

Thanks again.

Annie,
I didn't see your post here as so much dirty laundry- that to me is when someone's intent is to gather approval or point fingers, not so much to come here with a genuine question. To me relationships are places where we need information, I don't see what is wrong about getting it in a respectful manner. It's hard to ask questions when we have some emotion invested into a situation because we aren't always willing to hear the answers when they come - I think it's rather brave when someone can distance themselves enough from feeling hurt to ask those questions when one is feeling vulnerable.

I always try to reflect well upon my Dominant, but I'll be damned if I'm not going to look for information when I need it because he may not have it to give to me. I don't think he is perfect or infallible or a complete encyclopedia of knowledge, therefore, I may need to look beyond him at times to solve something for myself if it is important.

It bothers me that he thinks some fear is healthy, I'm sure there is a situation where that may be a good thing, but there's just something about this particular situation where that is bothering me for some reason I can't exactly put my finger on. Also, his not feeling sorry for something if he truly is wrong, and also that he's twisted your words - all of this bothers me as well. I'm sure you'll follow things through to whatever conclusion is best for you, I wish you the best.

(in reply to anniezz338)

RE: Dom saying I'm sorry - 12/23/2011 6:43:42 AM

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Your post as well as the other post someone posted to me shows major disrespect not only to him but to your relationship, it's a good thing he doesn't agree. It's convenient he doesn't come here to want you publically blast his integrity while bitching about him not doing what you demand and want him to do.

To me, based on your post here -- You have no respect for him at the very least, based on THIS thread, you believe he has no integrity. To me, that means your relationship is over or at least well on its way to being over.

Maybe i see things differently as to what constitutes respect of your partner and your relationship and yourself. But coming to a public board that you know he doesn't come to and pretty much indicate its YOUR Dom you are speaking about and the blasting of his integrity on a public board to me isn't the ingredients to maintain a healthy relationship.

But i guess we all set our own standards as to what is acceptable in a relationship.

angel

_____________________________

What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson

(in reply to lizi)

RE: Dom saying I'm sorry - 12/23/2011 8:56:02 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

Your post as well as the other post someone posted to me shows major disrespect not only to him but to your relationship, it's a good thing he doesn't agree. It's convenient he doesn't come here to want you publically blast his integrity while bitching about him not doing what you demand and want him to do.

To me, based on your post here -- You have no respect for him at the very least, based on THIS thread, you believe he has no integrity. To me, that means your relationship is over or at least well on its way to being over.

Maybe i see things differently as to what constitutes respect of your partner and your relationship and yourself. But coming to a public board that you know he doesn't come to and pretty much indicate its YOUR Dom you are speaking about and the blasting of his integrity on a public board to me isn't the ingredients to maintain a healthy relationship.

But i guess we all set our own standards as to what is acceptable in a relationship.

angel

angel

I have heard your words hundreds of times.....from an abusive alcoholic father to my mother, whom i have seen more than once hold a gun to her head for HOURS, telling her what a useless piece of shit she was. Someone who many times kicked her repeatedly with steal toed boots as she lay on the floor begging him to stop.

To advocate staying silent in what could possibly be becoming an abusive relationship, mental or physical, i won't even try to comprehend. This post was started because things are starting to seem unhealthy. If i felt it was healthy, this post would not exist.

But, in your words, i guess we all set our own standards as to what is acceptable in a relationship.

After many hours of thought in the last two days, and reflecting back to things that have been said and done, sadly enough, i am starting to lean towards kalikshama's post on NPD and this:

quote:

I was with someone just like this for a short time. Longer than I should of been, b/c the sex was hot. In the end he was found out for the lying, manipulative bastard he *really* was (and yes, I did instigate that). Not only did I have to pick up the pieces of a failed relationship, I had to acknowledge my sense of judgment was skewed by the fact I was thinking with my pussy, instead of my brain.

A humbling experience and not one I want to repeat.

Please run as fast as you can. It won't get better, but you will feel even stupider if you don't.

Just my advice, YMMV and all.

Do i feel stupid? You bet your ass i do. Decisions have pretty much been made and life goes on. Happy holidays to you.

_____________________________

I had become insane, with horrific lapses of sanity. Edgar Allen Poe

(in reply to barelynangel)

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