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RE: Think there is a god and what is your evidence? - 2/3/2012 4:31:37 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MSubEdinburgh29

No-one can prove there is a God, and no-one can prove there isn't a God.

I agree.

quote:

The world and how it came to be - there is no logical theory that can explain it. It is beyond our comprehension, yet we have an unending desire to find answers for it all.

I partly agree. There is no logical theory as of right now, and it is beyond our comprehension as of right now. Since we don't know what the truth is, we don't really know if it's illogical or beyond our comprehension.

quote:

The only logical solution is to stop wasting any more time thinking about it.

I completely disagree. I was telling someone once about how I am so interested in astronomy and physics because I believe that the answers to our questions lie in space sciences. She asked me why I feel so strongly the need to find the answers. I said I don't, but I feel the need to search.

It's a drive inside of mankind. I think it's an exciting endeavor, not a waste of time.

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RE: Think there is a god and what is your evidence? - 2/3/2012 4:55:36 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PatrickG38

What evidence is there that science cannot provide?

Ahhh, evidence of the non-scientific sort?

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RE: Think there is a god and what is your evidence? - 2/3/2012 11:30:23 PM

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~ FR ~

In the beginning was the Singularity... existing beyond Time, even Space itself, and all was Void... when suddenly, defying infinite gravity and bursting forth at supraluminal velocities, Lo! it brought forth Law and Light and Time and Space. And so it was that in the passage of time solid earth appeared, and worlds were formed in accordance with the Law. And thus it came to pass, in the further passage of time, that the earth of the worlds grew more and more complex. And when the time was full, Lo! it became alive! And as its Sentience grew, it became more and more Conscious, until finally it grew Wise. And looking at its world and the great Universe which had brought it forth, there finally came a time when it saw the Truth... and rejoicing, proclaimed it in a loud voice:

Shit, Dude! What a fucking accident!!

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 2/4/2012 12:05:28 AM >

(in reply to Yachtie)

RE: Think there is a god and what is your evidence? - 2/4/2012 4:14:59 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: coyotesub315

I have a problem with the question posed by the OP. It asks for proof for something that is a matter of faith.

The existence of God ( under any name you choose) is something that can not be proven, it is a matter of faith. Faith is for those things we choose to believe, or not believe, that there is no evidence for. Statements of other faithful do count as evidence. You can not prove an article of faith using the scientific method, when you ask if God exists you are asking someone's opinion of something that they will never be able to back up with facts.

That being said, yes, I believe in God. But I can not prove his or her existence to you.

I am sorry to have to point out that Coyotesub has it backwards. The existence of a creator is demonstrated by the existence of creation. Even if it was random chance, Those dice came from somewhere, somehow at some point got rolled and got got rolled some where. Take it back as far as you want. SOMETHING created the universe. It is the nature of and not the existence of the creator that is subject to debate and to definition and thus, if one is to derive a definition of deity, because it is intrinsically unknowable, faith is a requirement. In fact, there is no requirement BUT faith. And that is why so much is made of this essentially senseless concept. Faith is and is no more than the belief in what one desires to believe in. Just as Coyotyesub put it.

To give an example of what I am pointing at, I give you the Cathar Crusades.

http://www.cathar.info/1201_beliefs.htm

The Cathar Crusades were fought, over the course of forty years (excluding the subsequent inquisition), between the Christians (the good guys) and the Christians (The bad guys). Who was actually who is more than a little confusing. Until you notice who had the money. The Cathars were that sect that followed the gospel of John and the philosophy of Plato and practiced a form of asceticism and dogoodery that scandalized the sect known as the Catholics, who followed the gospel of Peter and the philosophy of Aristotle, because they practiced a form of politics that was both bloody and grasping. The essential point was that the Cathars (Damn them ALL to HELL!) showed by thier example just how far from Christs teaching and example the Catholics had strayed. This left the Catholics but two options other than addmitting to being fuck-ups. They could either stop killing everyone that got in thier way and give back the money. Or they could wipe the Cathars of the face of the earth. And so in the name of God they did. While promising all the dregs of humanity who lifted sword in that 'holy' cause, remission of sin (another weird concept) and a seat at Gods table. Natually, having both the ill-gotten gains to buy armies and the inclination to do just that, the Catholics wiped that Cathars out. And that is why the Catholics are the good guys.

Coming round to my point, Neither Catholic nor Cathar had a monopoly on truth. Each of them worshiped (another weird word) a God they defined according to the wish of their hearts. They worshiped a reflection of themselves. They, in essence, worshiped themselves. If there is indeed a true religion then by that fact there can be only one. On this planet alone there are thousands and if you will count the defunct religions, millions of religions, only one of which could possibly be right. If one star in a million ever hosts a species capable of noticing God, then there are millions of billions of other Worlds each with millions of religions of their own, all of them wrong save one. If, indeed there is, has ever been or ever will be a twue religion anywhere, anywhen.

Yet. The mere existence of God is undoubtable. And that is not what we kill each other over.

I have said before and now say again, if religion were a form of learning instead of a form of politics, theologians would travel the world to talk to one another. To share ideas, thoughts and facts. To come together to collectively enjoy the knowledge contributed by each. Rather than send in their stead armies with divine justice in their right hands and remission of sin in their left

No. There is nothing wrong with the picture. It's you that is wrong.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by FrostedFlake -- 2/4/2012 4:39:46 AM >

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(in reply to coyotesub315)

RE: Think there is a god and what is your evidence? - 2/4/2012 4:48:49 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: doctorgrey

yes, it IS offensive, but then, so is the notion of god.

DrG

How is the notion of god offensive to you?

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RE: Think there is a god and what is your evidence? - 2/4/2012 5:37:49 AM

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I can't stop looking at that picture.

I can't stop looking at that picture.

I can't stop looking at that picture.

I can't stop looking at that picture.

I can't stop looking at that picture.

I can't stop looking at that picture.

(in reply to FrostedFlake)

RE: Think there is a god and what is your evidence? - 2/4/2012 6:16:55 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PatrickG38
I never claimed to prove there isn't a 'god'. I can prove withing reason there is no Christian god as understood by mainstream Christian theology with posits a beneficent, omnipotent, omniscient god.

Keep in mind that the mainstream Christian concept of a god includes there being a benefit to being Christian (God answers prayers). Any concept of god that interacts with reality most certainly is not "a matter of faith", it falls within the purvue of science. Such concepts are testable and do fail.

(in reply to PatrickG38)

RE: Think there is a god and what is your evidence? - 2/4/2012 6:21:58 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FrostedFlake
Yet. The mere existence of God is undoubtable.

Reality Fail.

Plenty of people doubt the existence of God therefor by definition it is doubtable.

(in reply to FrostedFlake)

RE: Think there is a god and what is your evidence? - 2/4/2012 9:56:22 AM

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RE: Think there is a god and what is your evidence? - 2/4/2012 10:02:19 AM

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I cannot prove that my god exists, anyone else's doesn't, or that any of it is actually relevant to everyday life, I can however say this, most religious and nonreligious people up for debating about the whole thing in a public forum are so firm in their belief in one or the other standpoint as the full, unimpeachable absolute truth, that any attempt to sway either side one way or the other is an act of folly, Which in and of itself is ironic, because you'd think that as in any debate the goal was to sway the other party or an audience (which in this case is once again either people who would support you anyway or people who, at least in this context in regards to their opposition to you) towards your point of view which is quite irrational given the above statement. I am not able to give you any proof of the above statements, all I can give you is the Vader proposition. "search your heart, you know it to be true."

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RE: Think there is a god and what is your evidence? - 2/4/2012 10:35:59 AM

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Peepantsin2012 gets deleted, account and all but this lowball shit survives?
What astute moderation we have here. Bravo!

I'm not offended by this post myself ... but I could turn off the air on the conservative side this place and leave and not feel much.

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RE: Think there is a god and what is your evidence? - 2/4/2012 10:53:05 AM

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quote:

I can't stop looking at that picture.

It's moving isn't it... funny side note... when I first switched to page two of this thread I accidentally paged down reaching for the coffee ... never having seen FrostedFlake's posting at that point. I assumed you meant the OP's picture (talk about a WTF moment).

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RE: Think there is a god and what is your evidence? - 2/4/2012 10:57:51 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I don't think the OP had any intention of actually debating the existence of a god. My reply was in response to the sentence he added below the offensive photo.

possibly the first time we have ever agreed on anything.

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RE: Think there is a god and what is your evidence? - 2/4/2012 10:59:32 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Trismagistus

I cannot prove that my god exists

every king of england claimed to BE God. That is where their power to be king comes from!

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"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

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(in reply to Trismagistus)

RE: Think there is a god and what is your evidence? - 2/4/2012 11:11:59 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trismagistus

I cannot prove that my god exists

every king of england claimed to BE God. That is where their power to be king comes from!

Except for King Arthur. In his case, the lady of the lake, her arm clad in the purest of shimmering samite, held aloft Excalibur ... (Well, that's what Graham Chapman said, anyway)

Peace and comfort,

Michael

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RE: Think there is a god and what is your evidence? - 2/4/2012 11:16:20 AM

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quote:

Atheists are contradicting little insects that think they actually matter.
Zealots are fearful little sheep that end up bastardizing what it is they preach.

Both groups are annoying beyond belief.

Oh Look NS has a new picture with hair pulled across his face how mysterious

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RE: Think there is a god and what is your evidence? - 2/4/2012 11:22:22 AM

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quote:

the lady of the lake, her arm clad in the purest of shimmering samite, held aloft Excalibur ...

And what did Dennis say in response??????

"Dennis: Listen. Strange women lying in ponds, distributing swords, is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses. Not from some farcical aquatic ceremony. King Arthur: Be quiet! Dennis: You can't expect to wield supreme executive power 'cause some watery tart threw a sword at you."

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RE: Think there is a god and what is your evidence? - 2/4/2012 11:26:17 AM

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Thank you, to all those who paraphrased me and missed the point I was trying to make, which is that ultimately debating any of this, especially on an online forum is like starting a slap fight on a kindergarten playground over who's dad could beat up who's, logic and reason, or sky wizards. Ultimately all anyone can offer is anecdotal "evidence" based on personal beliefs that are just that, beliefs. Neither Atheism nor any major religion can provide much in the way of proof other than "BECAUSE I SAID SO" and that's just how it is, why don't we focus our time and energy on getting to know the things we might like about eachother instead of bashing our heads together like a bunch of pissed off animals fighting over who gets to mate with the invisible whatever the fuck.

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RE: Think there is a god and what is your evidence? - 2/4/2012 11:38:17 AM

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quote:

Why do people assume that nonexistance is the normative state and that existance requires some typ of agency. Moreover, if that is the case and 'god' exists what great power created 'god' It is turtles all the way down.

Call this crazy, but every time I see your profile post, I immediate;y go to youtube and dial up a Jon Lovitz ... the funniest ad lib man on earth

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RE: Think there is a god and what is your evidence? - 2/4/2012 11:44:32 AM

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quote:

Thank you, to all those who paraphrased me and missed the point

C:\HUH?

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