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He was armed with skittles and ice tea... - 3/15/2012 3:21:10 AM

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This is just....stunning...and beyond belief. Check this information out. And this information (they both dont give the total, full story by themselves).

After you get done with all that, This should help explain why this issue is so F-ed up.. I dont know what is more stunning. That Zimmerman believes being a watch captain entitles him to walk around with a loaded firearm, like some wild west sherif. That the ACTUAL law enforcement dont see this Zimmerman character as a probable murder and to be arrested immediately (see what Tracy Martin, the victim's father states what the police told him about Mr. Zimmermen in Cenk's video). Or that the police have not come forward to show WHY they failed to do their job.

Trayvon Martin's folks are just going through a level of hell that *NO* Parent should *EVER* have to go through. After all, if what the media states is true, I have a hard time understanding HOW a 140 pound kid is much of a threat to a chubby 28 year old man, armed with a firearm.

RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... - 3/15/2012 3:41:40 AM

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From: Dirty Jersey
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Wow.....heartbreaking.

We need to hear the 911 call tape.

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(in reply to joether)

RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... - 3/15/2012 4:56:35 AM

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Maybe the kid should have done the smart thing and waited for the police to show up instead of running.

Let's see, someone with a badge and a gun stops this kid.
Kid runs.
Kid gets caught.
Kid beats the shit out of the guy who has the badge and the gun. (Yeah... the kid was winning the fight...)
Kid gets shot.

Tea and skittles don't have a damned thing to do with this. If the kid would have just said "Okay, I'll wait for the police to sort this out.", it would have diffused the whole situation before it even started. The cops would have verified that his father lives in the gated, secured community that he was visiting. If the kid wasn't mentally retarded, then his parents need to take some responsibility for raising such a foolish child. Whats heartbreaking about this is that if they had done their jobs as parents and taught their child some sense their son would probably be alive today.

-SD-

(in reply to Owner59)

RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... - 3/15/2012 5:04:07 AM

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Oh ....running away from a guy waving a gun.....

Guilty.

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President Obama

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RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... - 3/15/2012 5:05:41 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SadistDave

Maybe the kid should have done the smart thing and waited for the police to show up instead of running.

Let's see, someone with a badge and a gun stops this kid.
Kid runs.
Kid gets caught.
Kid beats the shit out of the guy who has the badge and the gun. (Yeah... the kid was winning the fight...)
Kid gets shot.

Tea and skittles don't have a damned thing to do with this. If the kid would have just said "Okay, I'll wait for the police to sort this out.", it would have diffused the whole situation before it even started. The cops would have verified that his father lives in the gated, secured community that he was visiting. If the kid wasn't mentally retarded, then his parents need to take some responsibility for raising such a foolish child. Whats heartbreaking about this is that if they had done their jobs as parents and taught their child some sense their son would probably be alive today.

-SD-

And what makes you think the kid had a chance to do that? For all we know the asshole panicked and shot him and then called 911. Nothing I read implied that the guy talked to this kid at all. He just shot him. Now I could be wrong, but I am guessing that if it had been a black man who shot a white kid, he would still be sitting in a cell at this point.

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RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... - 3/15/2012 5:08:34 AM

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Joined: 8/27/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SadistDave

Maybe the kid should have done the smart thing and waited for the police to show up instead of running.

Let's see, someone with a badge and a gun stops this kid.
Kid runs.
Kid gets caught.
Kid beats the shit out of the guy who has the badge and the gun. (Yeah... the kid was winning the fight...)
Kid gets shot.

Tea and skittles don't have a damned thing to do with this. If the kid would have just said "Okay, I'll wait for the police to sort this out.", it would have diffused the whole situation before it even started. The cops would have verified that his father lives in the gated, secured community that he was visiting. If the kid wasn't mentally retarded, then his parents need to take some responsibility for raising such a foolish child. Whats heartbreaking about this is that if they had done their jobs as parents and taught their child some sense their son would probably be alive today.

-SD-

1. Zimmerman was told by the dispatcher NOT to get out of the car and confront the kid but to wait for police.

2. If a guy who is not an LEO gets out of a car with a gun, what are you going to do? I'm gonna show him cheeks and elbows.

3. If said person (non LEO) catches me, I have no choice but to fight.

4. Zimmerman was charged with battery on an officer and resisting arrest in 2005.

How can Zimmerman claim "Self defense" when he (against the orders of the police) initiated the fatal encounter?

What is heartbreaking is that if Zimmerman had listened to the police, the kid would be alive.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to SadistDave)

RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... - 3/15/2012 6:34:17 AM

fucktoyprincess

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FR

I agree that Zimmerman, as the older adult WITH THE GUN is the one who should have exercised restraint.

Up to that point Martin was doing nothing more than walking slowly through the neighborhood with a hoodie on. Guilty of what? Guilty of no more than being black in a neighborhood where he was perceived as "not belonging". Let's not even begin to talk about how incredibly racist that presumption is.

I think if you are going to be a self-appointed armed vigilante, you have to be completely sure you know what you're doing before you use your gun to KILL people. Even police are trained on when they are allowed to use a gun, and when they are not. It is my understanding that every shot from a police gun has to be accounted for and explained. Police are not allowed to just shoot someone down for NO reason. And when police make the mistake of doing so without proper cause, it is always big news. So what makes this private citizen think they have the right, based on these set of facts, to just shoot someone down. How is this any different from someone who shows up at a school and kills children i.e., there is no right to go to a place where someone is legally allowed to be and just kill them because you don't like them. The world doesn't work that way.

WHY has Zimmerman not been arrested?? Running around toting a gun and shooting people you think don't belong somewhere - he meets every criteria for being dangerous to the public at large.

< Message edited by fucktoyprincess -- 3/15/2012 6:35:05 AM >

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RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... - 3/15/2012 7:33:53 AM

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Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SadistDave
Maybe the kid should have done the smart thing and waited for the police to show up instead of running.
Let's see, someone with a badge and a gun stops this kid.
Kid runs.
Kid gets caught.
Kid beats the shit out of the guy who has the badge and the gun. (Yeah... the kid was winning the fight...)
Kid gets shot.
Tea and skittles don't have a damned thing to do with this. If the kid would have just said "Okay, I'll wait for the police to sort this out.", it would have diffused the whole situation before it even started. The cops would have verified that his father lives in the gated, secured community that he was visiting. If the kid wasn't mentally retarded, then his parents need to take some responsibility for raising such a foolish child. Whats heartbreaking about this is that if they had done their jobs as parents and taught their child some sense their son would probably be alive today.
-SD-

So, kid gets skittles and iced tea from a car or convenience store (conflicting stories...one says the kid was walking back to his Dad's house from the convenience store...the other says he went out to his car to get the stuff while he was at his girlfriend's house) and was walking back towards the houses, or a house.

Zimmer approaches kid and attempts to stop him. Regardless of what other posters may state, we don't know if Zimmer had his gun drawn, yelled to the kid, ran after him in the first place or what. Zimmer left his car, armed with a gun. A footrace apparently broke out and a fight ensued. At some point, the kid was beating Zimmer up (bloody nose and bleeding from the back of his head). The kid gets shot in the chest. Moments later, the cops show up and find Zimmer standing over the corpse, gun in hand.

Zimmer may have had a history of harassing Trayvon, or other blacks. That might be why Trayvon ran.
Zimmer may have ran after him with gun pulled. That might be why Trayvon ran.
Zimmer may have run at Trayvon, yelling at him in a menacing manner.

Trayvon may have been a ninja, a black belt in some martial art, or just tough enough to beat up a pudgy, older white chump.

Zimmer called the police (first link says non-emergency line; second link says 911). That's a good thing. If the first link is correct, someone saw the two scuffling...police got to the scene very shortly after a gunshot is heard. There was 13 minutes between the police call and the police reaching the scene. Not sure if that's a typical response time or not, but it's certainly a lot longer than the time between the gunshot and police arrival.

Technically, Zimmer could have shot Trayvon in self-defense. Trayvon was winning the fight. However, it's likely the entire situation would have been avoided had Zimmer 1) followed police instructions and 2) abided by the rules of Block Watch.

If there is justice in this case, Zimmer is fucked.

(in reply to SadistDave)

RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... - 3/15/2012 7:41:20 AM

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I have to agree with you there DS.

It's hard to claim self defense if you initiate the contact.

ETA. Is subrob around? I'd like to hear his take on it as he's an LEO.

< Message edited by Hillwilliam -- 3/15/2012 7:42:14 AM >

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)

RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... - 3/15/2012 7:42:41 AM

xssve

Posts: 3589
Joined: 10/10/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SadistDave

Maybe the kid should have done the smart thing and waited for the police to show up instead of running.

Let's see, someone with a badge and a gun stops this kid.
Kid runs.
Kid gets caught.
Kid beats the shit out of the guy who has the badge and the gun. (Yeah... the kid was winning the fight...)
Kid gets shot.

Tea and skittles don't have a damned thing to do with this. If the kid would have just said "Okay, I'll wait for the police to sort this out.", it would have diffused the whole situation before it even started. The cops would have verified that his father lives in the gated, secured community that he was visiting. If the kid wasn't mentally retarded, then his parents need to take some responsibility for raising such a foolish child. Whats heartbreaking about this is that if they had done their jobs as parents and taught their child some sense their son would probably be alive today.

-SD-

He's a fucking neighbor hood watch captain, a civilian, what fucking badge?

He's a guy with a gun, that will cause most people to run, I'd run too.

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Walking nightmare...

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RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... - 3/15/2012 7:45:10 AM

xssve

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Joined: 10/10/2009
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Hell, in Florida, I want to see a badge, a uniform, a car, the works - pretending to be police officers is a favorite tactic of home invaders down there, this guy wasn't even a rent-a-cop.

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Walking nightmare...

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RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... - 3/15/2012 7:55:07 AM

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Two things came to mind when I heard about this story, both influenced by having grown up in Philadelphia, PA in the 1950's-1960's:

(1) If you encounter anyone with a badge and a gun, particularly if that person is also wearing a police uniform - treat them like a unleashed pit-bull dog - anticipate that they will, at any time and for no reason, go for your throat and you will have little or no defense.

(2) Trayvon Martin was guilty of the "crime" of WWB (Walking While Black) and, like many others who commit that "crime" in predominantly Caucasian areas, he died because of it. Growing up as an Irish-American kid in Philadelphia, PA, I learned that it was always much safer and easier for me to walk through a Black area to visit my Black friends than it was for my Black friends to walk through my Irish/Italian neighborhood to visit me. The police would stop them almost every time within the 4 city blocks from the bus stop to my house for being "suspicious", AKA WWB, but the police would never stop me when I was walking through a Black neighborhood (unless I was with my Black girlfriend - then they would stop us on the "suspicion" that she was a prostitute and I was her customer).

< Message edited by Fightdirecto -- 3/15/2012 7:56:59 AM >

_____________________________

"I swore never to be silent whenever and wherever human beings endure suffering and humiliation. We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.””
- Ellie Wiesel

(in reply to DesideriScuri)

RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... - 3/15/2012 8:00:32 AM

xssve

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Florida is full of rent a cops, a badge doesn't mean shit - anybody can carry a gun pretty much, its easier to get a concealed carry permit than a drivers license, and hardly anybody even checks for for the permit, but all that guy was authorized to do was call 911, a carry permit does not mean you can shoot anybody you want, no matter what kind of crackerjack wanna be cop you are.

If that kid had been a criminal, that watch captain would have gotten his face blown right the fuck off.

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Walking nightmare...

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RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... - 3/15/2012 8:09:04 AM

xssve

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http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/29/us/29fakecops.html?pagewanted=all

quote:

As long as police officers have worn uniforms and carried badges, criminals have dressed like them to try to win the trust of potential victims. Now the impersonators are far more sophisticated, according to nearly a dozen city police chiefs and detectives across the country.

In South Florida, seemingly an incubator of law-breaking innovation, police impersonators have become better organized and, most troubling to law enforcement officials, more violent. The practice is so common that the Miami-Dade Police Department has a Police Impersonator Unit.

Since the unit was established in 2007, it has arrested or had encounters with more than 80 phony officers in Miami-Dade County, and the frequency has increased in recent months, said Lt. Daniel Villanueva, who heads the unit.

“It’s definitely a trend,” Lieutenant Villanueva said. “They use the guise of being a police officer to knock on a door, and the victim lowers their guard for just a second. At that point, it’s too late.”

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&output=search&sclient=psy-ab&q=impersonating+a+police+officer+florida&oq=&aq=&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=&gs_upl=&gs_l=&psj=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=fbfc4132952304ec&biw=1280&bih=736

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RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... - 3/15/2012 8:09:33 AM

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Sorry for the young kid, he did not know he needs to be armed with a pistol not ice tea and ready to shoot fast.

(in reply to xssve)

RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... - 3/15/2012 8:13:30 AM

fucktoyprincess

Posts: 2337
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto
Trayvon Martin was guilty of the "crime" of WWB (Walking While Black) and, like many others who commit that "crime" in predominantly Caucasian areas, he died because of it. Growing up as an Irish-American kid in Philadelphia, PA, I learned that it was always much safer and easier for me to walk through a Black area to visit my Black friends than it was for my Black friends to walk through my Irish/Italian neighborhood to visit me. The police would stop them almost every time within the 4 city blocks from the bus stop to my house for being "suspicious", AKA WWB, but the police would never stop me when I was walking through a Black neighborhood (unless I was with my Black girlfriend - then they would stop us on the "suspicion" that she was a prostitute and I was her customer).

Isn't it sad that we've made so little progress on the WWB issue since the 50s and 60s?

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(in reply to Fightdirecto)

RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... - 3/15/2012 9:25:15 AM

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Joined: 8/3/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto
Trayvon Martin was guilty of the "crime" of WWB (Walking While Black) and, like many others who commit that "crime" in predominantly Caucasian areas, he died because of it. Growing up as an Irish-American kid in Philadelphia, PA, I learned that it was always much safer and easier for me to walk through a Black area to visit my Black friends than it was for my Black friends to walk through my Irish/Italian neighborhood to visit me. The police would stop them almost every time within the 4 city blocks from the bus stop to my house for being "suspicious", AKA WWB, but the police would never stop me when I was walking through a Black neighborhood (unless I was with my Black girlfriend - then they would stop us on the "suspicion" that she was a prostitute and I was her customer).

Isn't it sad that we've made so little progress on the WWB issue since the 50s and 60s?

"History repeats itself - that's what's wrong with history" - Clarence Darrow

_____________________________

"I swore never to be silent whenever and wherever human beings endure suffering and humiliation. We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.””
- Ellie Wiesel

(in reply to fucktoyprincess)

RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... - 3/15/2012 11:02:58 AM

fucktoyprincess

Posts: 2337
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto

quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto
Trayvon Martin was guilty of the "crime" of WWB (Walking While Black) and, like many others who commit that "crime" in predominantly Caucasian areas, he died because of it. Growing up as an Irish-American kid in Philadelphia, PA, I learned that it was always much safer and easier for me to walk through a Black area to visit my Black friends than it was for my Black friends to walk through my Irish/Italian neighborhood to visit me. The police would stop them almost every time within the 4 city blocks from the bus stop to my house for being "suspicious", AKA WWB, but the police would never stop me when I was walking through a Black neighborhood (unless I was with my Black girlfriend - then they would stop us on the "suspicion" that she was a prostitute and I was her customer).

Isn't it sad that we've made so little progress on the WWB issue since the 50s and 60s?

"History repeats itself - that's what's wrong with history" - Clarence Darrow

Please don't get me started on history...I feel like I end up making that point on every thread....no matter what the topic....

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RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... - 3/15/2012 12:09:07 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

I have to agree with you there DS.

It's hard to claim self defense if you initiate the contact.

ETA. Is subrob around? I'd like to hear his take on it as he's an LEO.

Heard a Prosecutor discuss this on the tube last night. She claimed that first contact nullified self-defense in Florida.

(in reply to Hillwilliam)

RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... - 3/15/2012 12:11:48 PM

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Joined: 8/27/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

I have to agree with you there DS.

It's hard to claim self defense if you initiate the contact.

ETA. Is subrob around? I'd like to hear his take on it as he's an LEO.

Heard a Prosecutor discuss this on the tube last night. She claimed that first contact nullified self-defense in Florida.

That's what I figured. You cant jump someone and then claim self defense. The stupid assed Paul Blart wannabe should have stayed in the damn car.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to vincentML)

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