RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack....

RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... (Full Version)

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DarqueMirror -> RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... (4/30/2012 10:36:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Nosathro My point is that the school used it as an excuse to suspended Martin. What you call an excuse, many concerned parents might call better safe than sorry. It's a weapon, plain and simple. Why do you think even prisoners can't have them? They make a very easily-obtained and inconspicuous shank.

DarqueMirror -> RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... (4/30/2012 10:38:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Nosathro Ah two minor cuts...that is repeated bashing? According the real victim -- Zimmerman -- yes.

DarqueMirror -> RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... (4/30/2012 10:39:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam Sounds like you're in favor of the "Nanny State" and all its bullshit "Zero tolerance". Really? Where did I state that? Since when does stating facts equate to supporting the way our society has become? Ever heard the definition of a red herring?

Moonhead -> RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... (5/1/2012 6:22:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead The fact that Zimmerman is the one standing trial rather than the corpse could well be taken as evidence that it didn't happen that way. If somebody's following you about and you can't get away from them, I suspect that if you get him down, you don't stop pounding his head off the floor until you know he won't be giving you any more aggro. Wrong. Police in many, many jurisdictions would call that battery at best...attempted murder at worst. If you're not armed and someone attacks, you can defend yourself enough to get them down. When they are down, if you don't stop, you've exceeded the confines of self defense. They'd call that assault and battery and maybe bind you over not to do it again over here, unless the other guy wound up crippled or dead.

Nosathro -> RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... (5/1/2012 6:29:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror quote: ORIGINAL: Nosathro My point is that the school used it as an excuse to suspended Martin. What you call an excuse, many concerned parents might call better safe than sorry. It's a weapon, plain and simple. Why do you think even prisoners can't have them? They make a very easily-obtained and inconspicuous shank. Iworked in a State Prison you would be surprised at what a inmate can't have. A screw driver is not classified as a weapon. I knew students and teacher who carried a screw driver around, did not see any of them arrested, I have several does that make me a criminal? And yes schools do make up excuses to do something to students, I had it happen and it happen to my granddaughter.

Nosathro -> RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... (5/1/2012 6:31:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror quote: ORIGINAL: Nosathro Ah two minor cuts...that is repeated bashing? According the real victim -- Zimmerman -- yes. I have worse hangnails, and no Zimmerman is the accused not the victim.

Nosathro -> RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... (5/1/2012 6:36:53 AM)
One point has seem to be dismissed that I would like to remind everyone. Zimmerman was on patrol in the Neighborhood watch program that the HOA started and have me do. He was carring and concealing a firearm which under the Neighborhood Watch program he was not suppose to do!

igor2003 -> RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... (5/1/2012 6:50:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead The fact that Zimmerman is the one standing trial rather than the corpse could well be taken as evidence that it didn't happen that way. If somebody's following you about and you can't get away from them, I suspect that if you get him down, you don't stop pounding his head off the floor until you know he won't be giving you any more aggro. Wrong. Police in many, many jurisdictions would call that battery at best...attempted murder at worst. If you're not armed and someone attacks, you can defend yourself enough to get them down. When they are down, if you don't stop, you've exceeded the confines of self defense. Wrong. If you are not armed and someone attacks, you can defend yourself enough to stop the attack. Just because they are down doesn't mean they aren't still fighting. If they are down and keep fighting, you keep fighting. Also, some of the Zimmerman defenders (I'm not going to go back to find exactly which ones) have said that if Zimmerman was down and being beaten, his adrenalin was probably pumping making it seem to him that, even though he was not actually being hurt all that seriously, he thought his life was in danger...enough so that it excuses him for using his gun to kill Martin. So why is it that by being chased and hunted, at night in the rain, for some reason unknown to him, the adrenalin in Martin's system is not considered an excuse for continuing to hit Zimmerman even though he is down? Which of the two...a teenage kid or a supposed adult...should be better able to have rational thought under those circumstances?

Raiikun -> RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... (5/1/2012 8:29:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: igor2003 So why is it that by being chased and hunted, at night in the rain, for some reason unknown to him, the adrenalin in Martin's system is not considered an excuse for continuing to hit Zimmerman even though he is down? If someon was actually chased and hunted in the rain, it sounds like he might have himself a good case for self defense. However, Martin is not the one on trial, so it doesn't seem exactly relevant.

Kirata -> RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... (5/1/2012 8:37:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: igor2003 Also, some of the Zimmerman defenders (I'm not going to go back to find exactly which ones) have said that if Zimmerman was down and being beaten, his adrenalin was probably pumping making it seem to him that, even though he was not actually being hurt all that seriously, he thought his life was in danger...enough so that it excuses him for using his gun to kill Martin. If in fact he was having his head knocked against a cement walk, it seems to me not unreasonable to fear a concussion and/or traumatic brain injury if it continued. quote: ORIGINAL: igor2003 So why is it that by being chased and hunted, at night in the rain, for some reason unknown to him, the adrenalin in Martin's system is not considered an excuse for continuing to hit Zimmerman even though he is down? Which of the two...a teenage kid or a supposed adult...should be better able to have rational thought under those circumstances? Okay, let's go there. What difference would that make? Should Zimmerman have thought, "Gee, yanno, this kid has a right to be pissed off. I probably scared him. I should just let him keep knocking my head against the cement until he calms down"? Not sure what you're proposing here. K.

Moonhead -> RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... (5/1/2012 1:13:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata If in fact he was having his head knocked against a cement walk, it seems to me not unreasonable to fear a concussion and/or traumatic brain injury if it continued. And if Trayvon Martin was an unregistered mutant he could have claimed a bounty for killing the boy.

Kirata -> RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... (5/1/2012 1:49:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata If in fact he was having his head knocked against a cement walk, it seems to me not unreasonable to fear a concussion and/or traumatic brain injury if it continued. And if Trayvon Martin was an unregistered mutant he could have claimed a bounty for killing the boy. What a coincidence that we should both find ourselves thinking of unregistered mutants. K.

Hillwilliam -> RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... (5/1/2012 1:56:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam Sounds like you're in favor of the "Nanny State" and all its bullshit "Zero tolerance". Really? Where did I state that? Since when does stating facts equate to supporting the way our society has become? Ever heard the definition of a red herring? Just responding to you hysterically classifying Martin's screwdriver as a weapon. Hell, when I was in HS, I'd go deer hunting at oh dark hundred, leave my rifle in its case on the back seat and walk into homeroom wearing camo with my knife still on my belt. My homeroom teacher would only ask if he was going to get those steaks I had promised if I was successful because it was his land I was hunting. How far the nanny state has come.

Politesub53 -> RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... (5/1/2012 4:12:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror quote: ORIGINAL: Nosathro Ah two minor cuts...that is repeated bashing? According the real victim -- Zimmerman -- yes. More bullshit from you. The real victim in this, even if Zimmerman is found not guilty, is the dead kid. Go back a page or two where I pointed out to Raiikun that the detective investigating the case said the evidence disproves Zimmys claims.

BamaD -> RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... (5/1/2012 4:53:55 PM)
Untill they paseg the castle doctrine law in Alabama a person was required by law to retreat to the furthest room of their own home and wait for an intruder to come to that room and demonstrate hostile intent. Then they were required by law to fire a warning shot. That was why they made our version of stand your ground.

BamaD -> RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... (5/1/2012 4:59:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: igor2003 quote: ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead The fact that Zimmerman is the one standing trial rather than the corpse could well be taken as evidence that it didn't happen that way. If somebody's following you about and you can't get away from them, I suspect that if you get him down, you don't stop pounding his head off the floor until you know he won't be giving you any more aggro. Wrong. Police in many, many jurisdictions would call that battery at best...attempted murder at worst. If you're not armed and someone attacks, you can defend yourself enough to get them down. When they are down, if you don't stop, you've exceeded the confines of self defense. Wrong. If you are not armed and someone attacks, you can defend yourself enough to stop the attack. Just because they are down doesn't mean they aren't still fighting. If they are down and keep fighting, you keep fighting. Also, some of the Zimmerman defenders (I'm not going to go back to find exactly which ones) have said that if Zimmerman was down and being beaten, his adrenalin was probably pumping making it seem to him that, even though he was not actually being hurt all that seriously, he thought his life was in danger...enough so that it excuses him for using his gun to kill Martin. So why is it that by being chased and hunted, at night in the rain, for some reason unknown to him, the adrenalin in Martin's system is not considered an excuse for continuing to hit Zimmerman even though he is down? Which of the two...a teenage kid or a supposed adult...should be better able to have rational thought under those circumstances? So it could be a tragic convergence of two people each of whom thought he was defending himself?

Kirata -> RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... (5/1/2012 9:00:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD So it could be a tragic convergence of two people each of whom thought he was defending himself? That's pretty much what it was, I think. But from the start, some people have been determined to make it something else. And that something else is something not tragic but ugly, and all about them. K.

DarqueMirror -> RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... (5/2/2012 12:21:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Nosathro Iworked in a State Prison you would be surprised at what a inmate can't have. A screw driver is not classified as a weapon. I knew students and teacher who carried a screw driver around, did not see any of them arrested, I have several does that make me a criminal? And yes schools do make up excuses to do something to students, I had it happen and it happen to my granddaughter. Funny, because I've heard stories over students getting expelled for them. Seems someone classifies them as a weapon. Try getting on a plane with one.

DarqueMirror -> RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... (5/2/2012 12:23:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Nosathro I have worse hangnails, and no Zimmerman is the accused not the victim. That's your opinion. In my opinion, Zimmerman was not only the victim of an unprovoked attack by a punk who forced him to defend himself, he's also the victim of malice prosecution just to appease those who would riot otherwise.

DarqueMirror -> RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... (5/2/2012 12:24:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Nosathro One point has seem to be dismissed that I would like to remind everyone. Zimmerman was on patrol in the Neighborhood watch program that the HOA started and have me do. He was carring and concealing a firearm which under the Neighborhood Watch program he was not suppose to do! Wrong again. He was returning from the store, not on patrol. This has been covered at length, but most media outlets ignore it...as do you apparently.

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