RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack....

RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... (Full Version)

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Nosathro -> RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... (4/30/2012 7:28:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror quote: ORIGINAL: Nosathro The so-called burgulary tool was a screw diver. I'm quite aware of what it was. I am also aware that a 17-year-old student has no need for a screwdriver at school. In many districts, they consider that a weapon. There have been girls expelled for having a fingernail file. A screwdriver is no different in the hands of a high school student. My point is that the school used it as an excuse to suspended Martin.

Nosathro -> RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... (4/30/2012 7:30:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 Yeah, Zimmerman had a gun and was intimidated by the skittles martin was carrying, anyone would be, right ? I'm sure Zimmerman was more intimidated by the repeated bashing of his head into the ground. quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 Are the later photos of Martin the ones shown to be of someone else with the same name ? if not, post them up. The pics have already been posted numerous times. Reposting them won't sway you anymore than the first dozen postings have. Ah two minor cuts...that is repeated bashing?

Hillwilliam -> RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... (4/30/2012 7:32:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror quote: ORIGINAL: Nosathro The so-called burgulary tool was a screw diver. I'm quite aware of what it was. I am also aware that a 17-year-old student has no need for a screwdriver at school. In many districts, they consider that a weapon. There have been girls expelled for having a fingernail file. A screwdriver is no different in the hands of a high school student. Sounds like you're in favor of the "Nanny State" and all its bullshit "Zero tolerance".

Nosathro -> RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... (4/30/2012 7:33:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead I'm just assuming he'd have had a lot worse than a couple of scratches on the back of his head if the corpse had put him down. Why is that an unreasonable assumption? Well let me see, other than a bloody nose, black eye maybe, swelling, bruses, etc. If you look at the photos you really don't see black and blue marks on Zimmerman face...and if his head was bounced off the concert you see more than just two scratches?

Moonhead -> RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... (4/30/2012 7:38:29 AM)
A lot fucking more, I'd have said. Particularly if the corpse is this wannabe gangsta thug team Zim keeps blathering about...

Moonhead -> RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... (4/30/2012 7:40:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Raiikun quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead If it had happened the way Zimmerman claims, he'd have been too busy having his skull fractured to get his gun out... Actually, if it had happened the way Zimmerman claims, he'd have gotten his gun out and shot Martin before his skull got fractured...since that's what Zimmerman is claiming happened. ;) What so Martin wasn't pounding his head off the pavement, then?

Raiikun -> RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... (4/30/2012 8:04:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead quote: ORIGINAL: Raiikun quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead If it had happened the way Zimmerman claims, he'd have been too busy having his skull fractured to get his gun out... Actually, if it had happened the way Zimmerman claims, he'd have gotten his gun out and shot Martin before his skull got fractured...since that's what Zimmerman is claiming happened. ;) What so Martin wasn't pounding his head off the pavement, then? Actually I was just poking mild fun at the logic in the sentence because basically it says "If it happened the way he said, then it wouldn't have happened the way he said." ;)

Moonhead -> RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... (4/30/2012 8:07:24 AM)
That's a flaw in Zimmerman's story, not in my reading of it, sadly.

Raiikun -> RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... (4/30/2012 8:12:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Nosathro If you look at the photos you really don't see black and blue marks on Zimmerman face. Keep in mind bruises sometimes take hours or days to show up...you can see in the videos that his nose is awful swollen, and now we know that there are medical records that show his nose was broken (Zimmerman went to the hospital the following day). So we know that Zimmerman had a broken nose, and was on the ground at some point during the confrontation...as I explained in the other thread I've been in a just similar enough position to know that when the adrenaline is running, when in pain, it's easy to get confused/exaggerate events, so that a couple of minor scrapes against the pavement could very easily have been perceived as his "head being smashed against the concrete". So basicly, though we don't know for sure that it happened close to how Zimmerman described it, there's no reason or evidence yet known to the public to assume Zimmerman wasn't describing it to the best he could.

Raiikun -> RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... (4/30/2012 8:13:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead That's a flaw in Zimmerman's story, not in my reading of it, sadly. Not really. If in a struggle on the ground, he might have been busy, but all it woulda taken is one instant with a hand free to pull the gun.

Moonhead -> RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... (4/30/2012 8:15:38 AM)
Which he wouldn't have had under the circumstances he's described.

Raiikun -> RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... (4/30/2012 8:18:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead Which he wouldn't have had under the circumstances he's described. I disagree. It's quite easy to visualize how he could have.

Nosathro -> RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... (4/30/2012 8:28:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead A lot fucking more, I'd have said. Particularly if the corpse is this wannabe gangsta thug team Zim keeps blathering about... Martin did not have a criminal record not even juvinel record. Oh yes I forget he was wearing a hoodie, real gangsta![&:]

mnottertail -> RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... (4/30/2012 8:29:29 AM)
and now we know that there are medical records that show his nose was broken no, we don't. So we know that Zimmerman had a broken nose no, we don't.

Moonhead -> RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... (4/30/2012 8:29:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Raiikun quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead Which he wouldn't have had under the circumstances he's described. I disagree. It's quite easy to visualize how he could have. The way he described this, if Martin had got him down, he wouldn't have been getting back up again.

Raiikun -> RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... (4/30/2012 8:33:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail and now we know that there are medical records that show his nose was broken no, we don't. So we know that Zimmerman had a broken nose no, we don't. "O’MARA: Have you ever had your nose fractured or broken. GILBREATH: No. O’MARA: You know that that was an injury that Mr. Zimmerman sustained, correct?" So yes, anyone rational does know that Zimmerman's nose was broken, it was stated clearly in court.

Nosathro -> RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... (4/30/2012 8:35:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Raiikun quote: ORIGINAL: Nosathro If you look at the photos you really don't see black and blue marks on Zimmerman face. Keep in mind bruises sometimes take hours or days to show up...you can see in the videos that his nose is awful swollen, and now we know that there are medical records that show his nose was broken (Zimmerman went to the hospital the following day). So we know that Zimmerman had a broken nose, and was on the ground at some point during the confrontation...as I explained in the other thread I've been in a just similar enough position to know that when the adrenaline is running, when in pain, it's easy to get confused/exaggerate events, so that a couple of minor scrapes against the pavement could very easily have been perceived as his "head being smashed against the concrete". So basicly, though we don't know for sure that it happened close to how Zimmerman described it, there's no reason or evidence yet known to the public to assume Zimmerman wasn't describing it to the best he could. First Off no medical records have been made public to show Zimmerman nose was broken. Considering that onle a paramedic, not a doctored reteated him and he was never in the a hospital or a wore a nose brace I have alot of trouble believe his nose was broken. The only person who said Zimmerman nose was broken was Zimmerman and his family, by the way, none of them saw Zimmerman. Further Zimmerman had his hands free while on the ground he claims Martin was trying to sufficate him, Martin had one hand on Zimmerman mouth and the other hand on his nose which would have really created more if Zimmerman nose was broken.

Raiikun -> RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... (4/30/2012 8:36:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Nosathro First Off no medical records have been made public to show Zimmerman nose was broken. We know the medical records exist though. quote: Considering that onle a paramedic, not a doctored reteated him and he was never in the a hospital or a wore a nose brace I have alot of trouble believe his nose was broken. Zimmerman went to the hospital the next day, according to Sanford police, and it was stated clearly at a court hearing that his nose was broken.

Moonhead -> RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... (4/30/2012 8:37:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Nosathro quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead A lot fucking more, I'd have said. Particularly if the corpse is this wannabe gangsta thug team Zim keeps blathering about... Martin did not have a criminal record not even juvinel record. Oh yes I forget he was wearing a hoodie, real gangsta![&:] I actually did Raikun a disservice with that crack: the "scary gangsta thug" thing is more darquemirror's schtick than his.

mnottertail -> RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... (4/30/2012 8:40:04 AM)
We know the medical records exist though. Not really known, we can infer it since we would have little reason to believe the medical facility would have reason to disobey the law. His necktie says his nose was broken, with no actual proffer of proof, that is not the same thing as it happening.

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