Zonie63
Posts: 2826
Joined: 4/25/2011 From: The Old Pueblo Status: offline
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ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote:
ORIGINAL: Zonie63 quote:
ORIGINAL: tj444 quote:
ORIGINAL: Zonie63 there's no practical way of getting around having to carry some form of ID, even if it's just a driver's license and social security card. ummm... having a drivers license and social security card does not mean you are an American citizen or a legal immigrant.. ummm... I'm well aware of this, but that's beside the point. If it's okay to ask for some forms of identification, why is it so outrageous if someone is asked to verify that they're in the country legally? What's the difference? Why is one perfectly okay, while the other is not? Can someone please explain the inconsistency here? The reason for the former is that the courts have ruled that the cops can require anyone to show identification. The reason for the latter is that he courts have not so ruled. The reason being that very few of us who live in th u.s. can prove that we are u.s. citizens. Well, I suppose we'll get a court ruling on this case soon enough, but that still doesn't explain the apparent outrage and zeal against the idea. The satirical criticism of imitating a German accent and saying "Papers, please," as well as the belief that this will somehow lead to a "police state" seem a bit far-fetched to me, especially if the only actual difference happens to be that "the courts have not so ruled" on this matter. Seems like this is splitting hairs over a minor point. Personally, I don't like the idea that cops (or even private organizations) can ask for identification at all. So, I can sympathize with those sarcastically imitating Germans who say "Papers, please," but this should be just as outrageous in the former as well as the latter. This inconsistency in outrage is still incomprehensible to me. As for your next point: quote:
ORIGINAL: thompsonx There is nothing on your birth certificate that proves the holder of the paper is the person named on the paper. If you used a birth certificate to get a passport or a drivers license of ss number they are all based on something that doesn't prove anything. Perhaps not, but it's the best anyone can do under the circumstances. The documentation provided would be sufficient to satisfy the requirements of the law, even if it may not be absolute concrete 100% proof. (Nothing in this universe is 100% proven.) The point is, if *I* can carry proper identification and satisfy the requirements of the law, then anyone can do it. It's just one more card I have to carry in my wallet. It's not really a big deal, considering all the other "papers" I have to carry and be able to show on demand. Don't get me wrong: I'm not a supporter of this law, but in my opinion, the opponents of SB 1070 are taking a completely wrong tack on this. They keep focusing on the "papers" so much that they're missing the forest through the trees. Why aren't they attacking the idea that cops can pull people over and ask for ID on general principles? That is, if they're REALLY so upset about cops asking for "Papers, please." My only point is that they should define their position and stick to it, rather than jumping all over la-la land with convoluted and inconsistent arguments. SB 1070 was more symbolic distraction than anything else. It was just passed as a matter of political expediency for the Republicans to gain more popular support among the hoi polloi, but even if fully implemented (which it won't be), it probably won't do much of anything one way or the other. quote:
Those like me who have held a top secret clearence (background check included the delivering doctor,school teachers from grammar school through high school,neighbors,employers) and naturalized citizens can prove it. The ability of any cop on the street to validate someones citizenship status if virtually nonexistant. It depends on which databases they have access to. I know that cops can verify whether my vehicle is insured just by entering in my license plate number into their system. If they pull me over and ask for my ID, they can check and see if there are any warrants out for my arrest. It should be just a simple matter of contacting the proper federal agencies and verifying if someone is in the country legally or not (and that's only if the individual doesn't have proper identification). As long as the individual has proper identification, then the law is satisfied, and the cops can't do anything.
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