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RE: AZ SB1070 to go before Supreme Court this week - 5/3/2012 10:18:13 AM   
subrob1967


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Regardless of where he was born his parents were both U S citizens that makes his natural born. This claim smacks of the claim that Rubio was born in Cuba even though his parents were U S citizens and had lived in U S for 19 years before he was born.


His father was a citizen? When did that happen?

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Profile   Post #: 81
RE: AZ SB1070 to go before Supreme Court this week - 5/3/2012 10:18:20 AM   
SternSkipper


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quote:

Do you believe that if the board of directors of wallmart went to the slam for a hundred years and got a $25 million dollar fine that other employers would soon begin to follow the law?


Not for one single fucking second... Shit, if they administered justice like that there would be huge hiring bonuses for anybody who could prove they were native american or came over with the pilgrims.


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Profile   Post #: 82
RE: AZ SB1070 to go before Supreme Court this week - 5/3/2012 10:19:09 AM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63
there's no practical way of getting around having to carry some form of ID, even if it's just a driver's license and social security card.

ummm... having a drivers license and social security card does not mean you are an American citizen or a legal immigrant..


ummm... I'm well aware of this, but that's beside the point. If it's okay to ask for some forms of identification, why is it so outrageous if someone is asked to verify that they're in the country legally? What's the difference? Why is one perfectly okay, while the other is not? Can someone please explain the inconsistency here?



The reason for the former is that the courts have ruled that the cops can require anyone to show identification.
The reason for the latter is that he courts have not so ruled. The reason being that very few of us who live in th u.s. can prove that we are u.s. citizens.
There is nothing on your birth certificate that proves the holder of the paper is the person named on the paper.
If you used a birth certificate to get a passport or a drivers license of ss number they are all based on something that doesn't prove anything.
Those like me who have held a top secret clearence (background check included the delivering doctor,school teachers from grammar school through high school,neighbors,employers) and naturalized citizens can prove it. The ability of any cop on the street to validate someones citizenship status if virtually nonexistant.

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Profile   Post #: 83
RE: AZ SB1070 to go before Supreme Court this week - 5/3/2012 10:20:18 AM   
SternSkipper


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quote:

Sorry, it was PROGRESS, IE PROGRESSIVES that wiped out the "Native" Americans.


What 'log cabin' did you learn that in Mr Lincoln?


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Looking forward to The Dead Singing The National Anthem At The World Series.




Tinfoilers Swallow


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Profile   Post #: 84
RE: AZ SB1070 to go before Supreme Court this week - 5/3/2012 10:27:09 AM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967


quote:

ORIGINAL: SternSkipper

quote:

Ask the Indians how unlimited immigration worked out for them.


We can't "The Party of Lincoln" killed those they couldn't destroy with addiction.



Sorry, it was PROGRESS, IE PROGRESSIVES that wiped out the "Native" Americans.


The history books claim it was the u.s. army acting on the direct orders of a succession of u.s. presidents.

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Profile   Post #: 85
RE: AZ SB1070 to go before Supreme Court this week - 5/3/2012 11:10:25 AM   
DomKen


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From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas
All that still does not change the fact that Justice Scalia meant what he said and he said nothing you posted. So, maybe you should take it up with the Justice. Besides, intelligent is just intelligent. Is attacking the messenger intelligent in your view?

It's very simple, either you misinterpreted what Scalia said or Scalia was simply wrong.

The states are not sovereign independent of the federal government (as a matter of fact the federal government can revoke a states sovereign immunity). So assuming Scalia is not a truly monumental idiot, not a safe assumption I know, then he was talking about the federal government and not Arizona.

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Profile   Post #: 86
RE: AZ SB1070 to go before Supreme Court this week - 5/4/2012 6:47:52 AM   
truckinslave


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quote:

then once Obama is re-elected he will bring in new immigration legislation


IF 0bama0 is re-elected there will be essentially nothing passed for a bare minimum of two years.

There is essentially zero chance of dims taking the House.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: AZ SB1070 to go before Supreme Court this week - 5/4/2012 6:58:02 AM   
truckinslave


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Neither of his parents were US citizens at the time Marco was born. Zero chance he is NBC
I am very hopeful that he will be the VP choice; I have faith the Dims will not only discover that "natural born citizen" and "citizen" are not synonymous but also will succeed in getting the issue before SCOTUS.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: AZ SB1070 to go before Supreme Court this week - 5/4/2012 6:58:11 AM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

then once Obama is re-elected he will bring in new immigration legislation


IF 0bama0 is re-elected there will be essentially nothing passed for a bare minimum of two years.

There is essentially zero chance of dims taking the House.

http://news.yahoo.com/dccc-video-seizes-boehner-prediction-103109770.html

Even Boehner said "The Democrats have a 1 in three chance of taking the house back".

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Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: AZ SB1070 to go before Supreme Court this week - 5/4/2012 6:59:45 AM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

Neither of his parents were US citizens at the time Marco was born. Zero chance he is NBC
I am very hopeful that he will be the VP choice; I have faith the Dims will not only discover that "natural born citizen" and "citizen" are not synonymous but also will succeed in getting the issue before SCOTUS.

By the Law of the Land, he was born on US soil. That makes him a Natural Born Citizen.

2 words "Anchor Baby".

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: AZ SB1070 to go before Supreme Court this week - 5/4/2012 7:03:10 AM   
truckinslave


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quote:

By the Law of the Land, he was born on US soil. That makes him a Natural Born Citizen.


By the Hillwilliam Law of the Wattle maybe.

Marbury v Madison clearly prevents any person who can read English from declaring "citizen" and "NBC" to be synonymous.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: AZ SB1070 to go before Supreme Court this week - 5/4/2012 7:07:08 AM   
truckinslave


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quote:

Even Boehner said "The Democrats have a 1 in three chance of taking the house back".


Do you know who Vince Dooley is/was? Did you ever have the pleasure of listening to him discuss an upcoming game?

Had Georgia played The Little Sisters of Mercy or the Progressive Academy for the Blind, he would have convinced the unsuspecting listener that the Bulldogs were 17 point underdogs.

Boehner. Like that.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: AZ SB1070 to go before Supreme Court this week - 5/4/2012 7:11:19 AM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

By the Law of the Land, he was born on US soil. That makes him a Natural Born Citizen.


By the Hillwilliam Law of the Wattle maybe.

Marbury v Madison clearly prevents any person who can read English from declaring "citizen" and "NBC" to be synonymous.

Here ya go.

"In the United States there are two established legal principles upon which individuals are said to acquire citizenship at birth: jus sanguinus ("right of blood"), meaning citizenship conferred by being born to parents who are U.S. citizens, and jus soli ("right of soil"), meaning citizenship conferred by being born on U.S. soil. Per the Fourteenth Amendment, which states that "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside," all individuals born on U.S. soil are considered "birthright citizens" under the law regardless of the citizenship status of their parents. "

Check out that last sentence.

If people born on US soil weren't granted citizenship regardless of their parents' status, we wouldn't have the problem with "Anchor Babies" that we have.



_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: AZ SB1070 to go before Supreme Court this week - 5/4/2012 7:13:37 AM   
Hillwilliam


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Joined: 8/27/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

Even Boehner said "The Democrats have a 1 in three chance of taking the house back".


Do you know who Vince Dooley is/was? Did you ever have the pleasure of listening to him discuss an upcoming game?

Had Georgia played The Little Sisters of Mercy or the Progressive Academy for the Blind, he would have convinced the unsuspecting listener that the Bulldogs were 17 point underdogs.

Boehner. Like that.

Bobby Bowden was much better at 'poormouthing his team' IMO.

I'm not sure that Boehner is that bright.

(No, I'm not an FSU fan, I went to U miami. I just had a hell of a respect for Bobby)

ETA, as I live in TN. Vince Dooley is considered one step above Spurrier.

< Message edited by Hillwilliam -- 5/4/2012 7:14:54 AM >


_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: AZ SB1070 to go before Supreme Court this week - 5/4/2012 8:59:37 AM   
thompsonx


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quote:

If people born on US soil weren't granted citizenship regardless of their parents' status, we wouldn't have the problem with "Anchor Babies" that we have.


What problem do we have with "anchor babies"?

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 95
RE: AZ SB1070 to go before Supreme Court this week - 5/4/2012 11:42:03 AM   
Hillwilliam


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Joined: 8/27/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

If people born on US soil weren't granted citizenship regardless of their parents' status, we wouldn't have the problem with "Anchor Babies" that we have.


What problem do we have with "anchor babies"?

It makes it more difficult to deport illegal aliens.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 96
RE: AZ SB1070 to go before Supreme Court this week - 5/4/2012 4:20:56 PM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

If people born on US soil weren't granted citizenship regardless of their parents' status, we wouldn't have the problem with "Anchor Babies" that we have.


What problem do we have with "anchor babies"?

It makes it more difficult to deport illegal aliens.


You are mistaken. Having a baby in this country does not give the parent/s any immigration status. When the child is 21 and has the ecoomic wherewithall to sponsor the parent/s into the country then that child may bring the parent/s to the u.s.

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 97
RE: AZ SB1070 to go before Supreme Court this week - 5/4/2012 8:26:06 PM   
Zonie63


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63
there's no practical way of getting around having to carry some form of ID, even if it's just a driver's license and social security card.

ummm... having a drivers license and social security card does not mean you are an American citizen or a legal immigrant..


ummm... I'm well aware of this, but that's beside the point. If it's okay to ask for some forms of identification, why is it so outrageous if someone is asked to verify that they're in the country legally? What's the difference? Why is one perfectly okay, while the other is not? Can someone please explain the inconsistency here?



The reason for the former is that the courts have ruled that the cops can require anyone to show identification.
The reason for the latter is that he courts have not so ruled. The reason being that very few of us who live in th u.s. can prove that we are u.s. citizens.


Well, I suppose we'll get a court ruling on this case soon enough, but that still doesn't explain the apparent outrage and zeal against the idea. The satirical criticism of imitating a German accent and saying "Papers, please," as well as the belief that this will somehow lead to a "police state" seem a bit far-fetched to me, especially if the only actual difference happens to be that "the courts have not so ruled" on this matter. Seems like this is splitting hairs over a minor point.

Personally, I don't like the idea that cops (or even private organizations) can ask for identification at all. So, I can sympathize with those sarcastically imitating Germans who say "Papers, please," but this should be just as outrageous in the former as well as the latter. This inconsistency in outrage is still incomprehensible to me.

As for your next point:


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
There is nothing on your birth certificate that proves the holder of the paper is the person named on the paper.
If you used a birth certificate to get a passport or a drivers license of ss number they are all based on something that doesn't prove anything.


Perhaps not, but it's the best anyone can do under the circumstances. The documentation provided would be sufficient to satisfy the requirements of the law, even if it may not be absolute concrete 100% proof. (Nothing in this universe is 100% proven.) The point is, if *I* can carry proper identification and satisfy the requirements of the law, then anyone can do it. It's just one more card I have to carry in my wallet. It's not really a big deal, considering all the other "papers" I have to carry and be able to show on demand.

Don't get me wrong: I'm not a supporter of this law, but in my opinion, the opponents of SB 1070 are taking a completely wrong tack on this. They keep focusing on the "papers" so much that they're missing the forest through the trees. Why aren't they attacking the idea that cops can pull people over and ask for ID on general principles? That is, if they're REALLY so upset about cops asking for "Papers, please." My only point is that they should define their position and stick to it, rather than jumping all over la-la land with convoluted and inconsistent arguments.

SB 1070 was more symbolic distraction than anything else. It was just passed as a matter of political expediency for the Republicans to gain more popular support among the hoi polloi, but even if fully implemented (which it won't be), it probably won't do much of anything one way or the other.

quote:


Those like me who have held a top secret clearence (background check included the delivering doctor,school teachers from grammar school through high school,neighbors,employers) and naturalized citizens can prove it. The ability of any cop on the street to validate someones citizenship status if virtually nonexistant.


It depends on which databases they have access to. I know that cops can verify whether my vehicle is insured just by entering in my license plate number into their system. If they pull me over and ask for my ID, they can check and see if there are any warrants out for my arrest. It should be just a simple matter of contacting the proper federal agencies and verifying if someone is in the country legally or not (and that's only if the individual doesn't have proper identification). As long as the individual has proper identification, then the law is satisfied, and the cops can't do anything.







(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 98
RE: AZ SB1070 to go before Supreme Court this week - 5/4/2012 9:00:45 PM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63
It depends on which databases they have access to. I know that cops can verify whether my vehicle is insured just by entering in my license plate number into their system. If they pull me over and ask for my ID, they can check and see if there are any warrants out for my arrest. It should be just a simple matter of contacting the proper federal agencies and verifying if someone is in the country legally or not (and that's only if the individual doesn't have proper identification). As long as the individual has proper identification, then the law is satisfied, and the cops can't do anything.

From what i have read about the cops trying to verify if someone is in the country illegally or not, it actually isnt easy at all.. a person could be held (in detention/jail) for a week or two while they attempt to verify a persons status. If it was that easy, then legal Americans would not be physically deported as some of them have been.

And about warrants,.. i was stopped by the cops and they asked me if there were any warrants out for my arrest.. Cops dont ask that kinda question if they dont know the answer already.. I knew of no warrants and i asked them why they were asking me, to which i got no answer.. it wasnt until i tried to get a drivers license did i find out that a speeding ticket i paid several years earlier was still listed as outstanding (even tho 1 month after i paid it i checked their website and the balance owed was $0), which likely also meant there was a warrant outstanding.. I called the county about the ticket and the clerk looked it up and claimed it was a computer glitch.. That doesnt help much if you are in jail for several days had the cops decided to enforce the warrant.. I mention this just to show how easy various records can be reported incorrectly.. and also, E-Verify also has a lot of errors and if you are listed on that as not being able to work due to one of those errors, your employer cant hire you and will take someone else instead.. How long before the error is corrected and how long before another job offer?

The computer isnt always right.. just sayin'

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Profile   Post #: 99
RE: AZ SB1070 to go before Supreme Court this week - 5/5/2012 4:56:26 AM   
tj444


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did you hear about this guy? they cant figure out who he is let alone if he is an American or not (I think he is but thats jmo).. So they dont have everyone in their database (& an illegal has less chance of being in that database, extensive as it is).. Not that i think this dude will be getting out of jail any time soon..

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/bobby-thompson-speak-signs/story?id=16271710

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As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

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Profile   Post #: 100
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