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RE: SUB DROP - 5/19/2012 7:35:00 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: misterraymond

quote:

As for the actual topic...anyone want to talk about it? I have seen sub drop a few times. I think I have seen it more in women than in men. I rarely spend time with women but it seems (IMHO) that women go there more often than men do.

Anyone have an opinion about this?

It is certainly a woman thing, it is quite serious really if it is not addresses, this Master made that very big mistake, and certainly regrets it very much.

I did write about it.

As for it being "a woman thing" men get it too.

_____________________________

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(in reply to misterraymond)

RE: SUB DROP - 5/19/2012 7:37:50 AM

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quote:

As for it being "a woman thing" men get it too.

That makes a lot of sense, Masters ignorance little experience with men.

_____________________________

Illeism and Illeism methodology, is the stylistic device of literature that is chosen by Mister Raymond

Only Mad Dogs and Englishmen go out in the Mid day Sun

(in reply to angelikaJ)

RE: SUB DROP - 5/19/2012 8:21:56 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissImmortalPain
As for the actual topic...anyone want to talk about it? I have seen sub drop a few times. I think I have seen it more in women than in men. I rarely spend time with women but it seems (IMHO) that women go there more often than men do.

Anyone have an opinion about this?

Thank you for trying to salvage the subject matter.

I would probably agree with your opinion that drop tends to occur more often among women than men. I'm basing this on My personal experiences, of course. I've played with more males that never drop in contrast to fewer females that have told Me the same. I'm also going with this more on gender, rather than what side of the kneel a person might be on. I know more female tops who experience drop than male ones.

Separating comments here. This is more the general part. It is not directed at MIP in any way. I just don't want to clog up the board with multiple posts when they are not necessary.

Am I the only one sitting on My side of the screen thinking how irresponsible for someone to need a reminder on this kind of thing? That's not even BDSM 101. I might even go so far as to say a subject like drop should be prerequisite knowledge.

If a person doesn't know the potential outcome of what their actions can produce, in My opinion, they have no right to be doing them.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to MissImmortalPain)

RE: SUB DROP - 5/19/2012 8:23:57 AM

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I'm including the whole Drop blurb, because I think it's excellent (and belies the specific to gender notion), but wanted to comment on the 4th and 5th paragraphs, which I have bolded.

My ex husband had nagged me to swing for 10 years before I finally relented. We very much enjoyed ourselves during an epic New Years party but he experienced this Guilt Drop the next day and made me the bad guy, although it was his idea (but my execution - I found the party, etc, etc.)

http://chicomunch.com/publ/basic_info_about_bdsm/bdsm_101_subspace_aftercare_and_sub_drop_and_sometimes_top_drop/1-1-0-23

DROP

Since the increase of hormones and chemicals has produced a trance-like state, as play ends the submissive may feel out-of-body, detached from reality. As the sub's system stops producing morphine-like drugs, and as the parasympathetic nervous system kicks in again, the sub may feel a deep exhaustion, a sharp drop in temperature, as well as incoherence and un-coordination. In the lifestyle, this is commonly referred to as "drop" or "sub-drop"

Drop is experienced by athletes and adventurers. Drop happens to Tops and Doms, (though this is often less-well-recognized) for pretty much the same reasons as athletes and adventurers. It also happens to people after high stress situations. After an emergency like a car accident or a break-in, people often find that they go through days where they have a feeling of being adrift, rather than how they are used to feeling.

Drop can also happen if play is stopped abruptly. BDSM play is a very vulnerable experience for people. It often involves exposing one's inner-self in ways that one has never before done. Sometimes, inexperienced Tops will begin BDSM play, and then abruptly terminate a scene (perhaps because they rudely decide that someone else would be "more interesting" to play with) and walk away. This can leave the abandoned sub in a *very* down state -- feeling that they engaged their sense of trust to allow a Top to play with them, and that the Top simply let them splatter on the ground.

There is also a different sort of drop, which is a function of encountering contradictions between the ingrained (and often implicit) "rules" that people live their lives by, and the discovery that various things in BDSM make them extremely happy. Usually the last thing that people do upon discovering that they are ecstatically happy doing things which harm no one but which might run contrary to a moral code handed to them as a pre-cognitive child, is to haul out the moral code and examine if following it actually leads to happiness.

Most often what people do is continue to do what makes them happy, but mindlessly accept their code's condemnation of it and swim in a sea of guilt over the contradiction. While this form of drop is usually outside of the subject of subspace and aftercare, it can be relevant if it leads to unexpected and unanticipated feelings of guilt, perhaps a day or two after play. It can combine with other aspects of drop to leave someone feeling abandoned, off balance, or simply wondering and unsure about their worth after a heavy scene.

The majority of people recover from play in a matter of hours, but others could exhibit signs of drop for weeks after a very intense session. The more extreme forms of drop could feel like you have a hangover or partied too hard the night before. Some people have felt lost and depressed for hours or days. Some just want to sleep it off.

The BDSM community combats drop by teaching people how to land gently, and by being prepared to assist others whom they play with to gently transition from flying to being "on the ground". We call this "aftercare". It is important to not only know that one might need it, but also to know that it is something that one may want (and need) to negotiate receiving after playing.

(in reply to misterraymond)

RE: SUB DROP - 5/19/2012 8:26:09 AM

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quote:

I would probably agree with your opinion that drop tends to occur more often among women than men. I'm basing this on My personal experiences, of course. I've played with more males that never drop in contrast to fewer females that have told Me the same.

Perhaps you are providing superior aftercare

(in reply to LadyPact)

RE: SUB DROP - 5/19/2012 8:26:25 AM

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quote:

If a person doesn't know the potential outcome of what their actions can produce, in My opinion, they have no right to be doing them.

What you are saying is so important, very few dominants seem to accept any responsibility, maybe this is because love is not a factor.

_____________________________

Illeism and Illeism methodology, is the stylistic device of literature that is chosen by Mister Raymond

Only Mad Dogs and Englishmen go out in the Mid day Sun

(in reply to LadyPact)

RE: SUB DROP - 5/19/2012 8:33:19 AM

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Chocolate, glaceau mineral water and salted nuts while cuddling works for me. I've skipped this, driven, and definitely been impaired.

http://chicomunch.com/publ/basic_info_about_bdsm/bdsm_101_subspace_aftercare_and_sub_drop_and_sometimes_top_drop/1-1-0-23

AFTERCARE

As a general rule, play in a public dungeon tends to be less intense than private play. This is especially true if the play is casual (established during the party, rather than between existing partners). Even existing partners will often fail to push as many boundaries in public play as they will in private. So people in the lifestyle who are playing privately probably have a greater need to establish rituals of aftercare that fit their exact needs.

In public dungeons, aftercare is usually oriented towards recognizing the immediate physical needs of subs who have been playing. Because the sub's body has been undergoing exertion, body temperature frequently drops sharply after play. This may require having a blanket or a robe for warmth as the sub can sometimes become chilly to the point of shivering, even if fully clothed. The sub may feel unsteady on their feet (sometimes barely able to move without assistance) necessitating a comfy place where they can sit or lie down and experience gentle contact and physical comfort for a period after play. Their cognitive functioning may be impaired (slow or disjointed) for a while after play.

Food or drink after play can be important: Water or sports-type drinks to re-hydrate, or juice to provide simple sugars. Eating some chocolate after play is recommended by some, as the opiate and cannabinoid effects of chocolate are similar to those of subspace, allowing a more gradual transition, and chocolate also contains several stimulants that can make mental processes feel more alert.

It is important to know that it is unwise to engage in heavy play (especially as a sub) and then drive too soon afterwards, as one might be far more "under the influence" due to subspace than if one were at the current legal limit for alcohol.

Aftercare, at it's most basic, simply involves the willingness to continue being there with your play partner for a sufficient time period that they can feel safe, regain their emotional equilibrium, and no longer feel the need to cling to you. It is equally important to recognize that aftercare is for both the Top and bottom, Dominant and submissive. If either person leaves too soon, then their partner may feel abandonment or loss far exceeding the the obvious dimensions of the scene.

It is a good idea to have a network of kinky friends whom you can talk to if you find that you need to -- one of the reasons that FetLife's community is important. As a Top, it is often important to make sure that the sub you play with knows how to get in contact with you, so that if they need later reassurance, it can be provided.

Continuing to help the transition, especially if going home alone after play, some people find that assembling "aftercare supplies" helps them continue to land gently after they arrive home. Relaxing music, comfort objects, scented candles, bubble baths, favorite books or movies, incense, and other forms of self-pampering serve to continue to remind people that they are special and cared for, allowing them to bask in the gradually fading fires of their flight into subspace.

(in reply to kalikshama)

RE: SUB DROP - 5/19/2012 8:35:35 AM

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quote:

rop can also happen if play is stopped abruptly. BDSM play is a very vulnerable experience for people. It often involves exposing one's inner-self in ways that one has never before done. Sometimes, inexperienced Tops will begin BDSM play, and then abruptly terminate a scene (perhaps because they rudely decide that someone else would be "more interesting" to play with) and walk away. This can leave the abandoned sub in a *very* down state -- feeling that they engaged their sense of trust to allow a Top to play with them, and that the Top simply let them splatter on the ground.

This is a very important point and worthy of much, certainly more dialogue, any Dominant who abandons a sub is an absolute disgrace and if this Master says what he would wish to say about such people, a gold letter would land, and the message/post deleted, but often it is happening, again it does effect women more than men, as a Master many women message him and after dialogue horendous stories emerge, this fraternity can be the destruction of many people.

A wonderful post on this topic, we are learning

_____________________________

Illeism and Illeism methodology, is the stylistic device of literature that is chosen by Mister Raymond

Only Mad Dogs and Englishmen go out in the Mid day Sun

(in reply to kalikshama)

RE: SUB DROP - 5/19/2012 8:37:07 AM

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quote:

Aftercare, at it's most basic, simply involves the willingness to continue being there with your play partner for a sufficient time period that they can feel safe, regain their emotional equilibrium, and no longer feel the need to cling to you.

Absolutely essential this rule of decency and care is adhered to.

_____________________________

Illeism and Illeism methodology, is the stylistic device of literature that is chosen by Mister Raymond

Only Mad Dogs and Englishmen go out in the Mid day Sun

(in reply to kalikshama)

RE: SUB DROP - 5/19/2012 8:38:09 AM

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quote:

Chocolate,

with women it is always chocolate.

_____________________________

Illeism and Illeism methodology, is the stylistic device of literature that is chosen by Mister Raymond

Only Mad Dogs and Englishmen go out in the Mid day Sun

(in reply to kalikshama)

RE: SUB DROP - 5/19/2012 8:41:34 AM

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quote:

It is important to know that it is unwise to engage in heavy play (especially as a sub) and then drive too soon afterwards, as one might be far more "under the influence" due to subspace than if one were at the current legal limit for alcohol.

Never, never , never, never leave a sub/slave who has experienced subspace, monitor for several hours, and she must never drive for 24 hours.

_____________________________

Illeism and Illeism methodology, is the stylistic device of literature that is chosen by Mister Raymond

Only Mad Dogs and Englishmen go out in the Mid day Sun

(in reply to kalikshama)

RE: SUB DROP - 5/19/2012 8:43:13 AM

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quote:

As a Top, it is often important to make sure that the sub you play with knows how to get in contact with you, so that if they need later reassurance, it can be provided.

Indeed the top/dominant/Master should keep in touch with the sub/slave , be sure, they often need reassurance.

_____________________________

Illeism and Illeism methodology, is the stylistic device of literature that is chosen by Mister Raymond

Only Mad Dogs and Englishmen go out in the Mid day Sun

(in reply to kalikshama)

RE: SUB DROP - 5/19/2012 8:48:04 AM

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Joined: 4/2/2009
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quote:

Continuing to help the transition, especially if going home alone after play, some people find that assembling "aftercare supplies" helps them continue to land gently after they arrive home. Relaxing music, comfort objects, scented candles, bubble baths, favorite books or movies, incense, and other forms of self-pampering serve to continue to remind people that they are special and cared for, allowing them to bask in the gradually fading fires of their flight into subspace.

These are truly excellent pieces of advice, if this Master may call you EBIL, as you say you are a very evil person , but EBIL will often joke and say things in a joking way to a Master....................is that really you ABIL.

_____________________________

Illeism and Illeism methodology, is the stylistic device of literature that is chosen by Mister Raymond

Only Mad Dogs and Englishmen go out in the Mid day Sun

(in reply to kalikshama)

RE: SUB DROP - 5/19/2012 8:48:09 AM

Posts: 32566
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quote:

ORIGINAL: misterraymond
What you are saying is so important, very few dominants seem to accept any responsibility, maybe this is because love is not a factor.

It doesn't have a thing to do with whether love is a factor or not. Just because I may not love the bottom that I'm playing with, isn't any excuse for incompetence or ignorance.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to misterraymond)

RE: SUB DROP - 5/19/2012 8:51:11 AM

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quote:

Just because I may not love the bottom that I'm playing with, isn't any excuse for incompetence or ignorance.

Your valued reply, Agreed and accepted, in Masters case things do revolve around a true love for ones slave, the subs Master sessions are not taken to great depths.

_____________________________

Illeism and Illeism methodology, is the stylistic device of literature that is chosen by Mister Raymond

Only Mad Dogs and Englishmen go out in the Mid day Sun

(in reply to LadyPact)

RE: SUB DROP - 5/19/2012 9:03:42 AM

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We often disagree, but this i agree with 100%.

If you dont know the potential consequences, dont do the actions.

And the "master" with all those years of experience has only just come across sub drop!!!

(in reply to LadyPact)

RE: SUB DROP - 5/19/2012 9:05:36 AM

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From: California
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quote:

ORIGINAL: misterraymond

quote:

If a person doesn't know the potential outcome of what their actions can produce, in My opinion, they have no right to be doing them.

What you are saying is so important, very few dominants seem to accept any responsibility, maybe this is because love is not a factor.

Actually, you are the first person I have run into in years who says their orientation is dominant, that has been exposed to BDSM for more than five minutes, but yet is clueless about subdrop.

Dominant, put down the flogger and educate thyself.

Cali

_____________________________

AKA "The Undisputed Goddess of Sarcasm", "Big Bad Cali" and "Yum Bum". Advisor to the Subbie Mafia, founding member of the W.A.C. and the Judgmental Bitches Brigade, member of the Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's and Team Troll

(in reply to misterraymond)

RE: SUB DROP - 5/19/2012 9:10:45 AM

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quote:

master" with all those years of experience has only just come across sub drop

Indeed not, it was not refered to as sub drop years ago, it was a condition, Master held his hands up to the fact that he had let this serious factor in a slave/ subs life , not take such an important part of a session, Master has just been taught to not get complacent and pull his socks up.

Thats not easy in boots.

_____________________________

Illeism and Illeism methodology, is the stylistic device of literature that is chosen by Mister Raymond

Only Mad Dogs and Englishmen go out in the Mid day Sun

(in reply to frazzle)

RE: SUB DROP - 5/19/2012 9:14:05 AM

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Joined: 4/2/2009
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quote:

Actually, you are the first person I have run into in years who says their orientation is dominant, that has been exposed to BDSM for more than five minutes, but yet is clueless about subdrop.

Dominant, put down the flogger and educate thyself.

Cali

Indeed, Master has explained , if this Master was clueless why start the Topic, Master realised the error of his ways, he had become complacent, and is not proud to admit that either.

_____________________________

Illeism and Illeism methodology, is the stylistic device of literature that is chosen by Mister Raymond

Only Mad Dogs and Englishmen go out in the Mid day Sun

(in reply to CalifChick)

RE: SUB DROP - 5/19/2012 9:21:57 AM

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Joined: 4/2/2009
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quote:

you are the first person I have run into in years who says their orientation is dominant, that has been exposed to BDSM for more than five minutes, but yet is clueless about subdrop.

This Masters has thought more on your comment, and will reply a little more.

What this Master has recently learnt is that the aftercare Master offers through his love, is very high quality, compared with what many others do or offer, Master will just admit that he can offer more, indeed he must, but that is because his one slave is very young and more wanting, far more demanding, and more vulnerable, this is a Saturday late afternoon and she sleep from exhaustion, she suffers sub drop, and as yet to recover, that is how this Master can identify his very own short commings.

Usually Master would have departed now, and she would be on her own, these are the short commings truly identified, Master thus will now stay with her, as long as she needs.

_____________________________

Illeism and Illeism methodology, is the stylistic device of literature that is chosen by Mister Raymond

Only Mad Dogs and Englishmen go out in the Mid day Sun

(in reply to CalifChick)

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