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ORIGINAL: igor2003

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

I know you don't want to believe anything I say, so here is a link that you can see for yourself.  It's the photo taken of Zimmerman's head before the EMTs arrive (that you claim you didn't get to see.), and it shows he is NOT wearing a hood.  Sorry.  http://gothamist.com/2012/04/20/new_photo_shows_george_zimmermans_h.php

I have never questioned your veracity, only your conclusions When you tild me of the pics I accepted their existance without challenge and in return I get that I "claim" not to have seen them, I accepted your word without proof at least give me the curtesy of not assuming I am lying without proof. Also note that I asked about his headgear I didnot make any claim about it thanks for providing the information.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 7/4/2012 4:05:22 PM >

(in reply to igor2003)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Louve00
, in court, told the family he thought Trayvon was not as young as he was, however did tell the dispatcher on the phone just before following him he did think he was that young. Hmmm.

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Not only that, he refused medical treatment at the time that night, and sought medical treatment only to get a Dr's notice to go back to work the next day. And while his Dr did recommend he get a second opinion from an ENT Dr, again, he refused. Again, interesting.

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And Judge Lester is a very unpredictable judge who is not happy with George or Shelly Zimmerman for lying to his court.

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ORIGINAL: Raiikun

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ORIGINAL: farglebargle

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ORIGINAL: Raiikun

"The law, however, does not require that Mr. Wyche, or anyone situated as he was on the night in question, actually sustain serious bodily injury before responding with force, even deadly force. It is enough that he reasonbly apprehend imminent deadly force directed against him."

State v. Wyche

Remember, the burden is on the State to prove George's scenario wrong; the burden of proof is not on the Defense.

So you're confirming that Trayvon Martin didn't have to actually get shot before he could lawfully use deadly force in defense of his life.

Thank you.

Helpful Hint: The VICTIM is the one being chased.

Trayvon is not on trial, and the law applies for George's defense too. (Edit: Technically it doesn't apply here, as Diallo happened in New York, not Florida).

Helpful hint: Zero proof exists of a chase.

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ORIGINAL: farglebargle
the trivial injuries Zimmerman sustained AS HIS ATTACK WAS BEING REPELLED BY HIS VICTIM

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ORIGINAL: farglebargle
his own attorney said, Zimmerman doesn't TRUST the court....

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ORIGINAL: farglebargle


If Zimmerman didn't chase Martin, how did Zimmerman catch up and approach him, as stated by Martin's girlfriend WHO HEARD THE CONFRONTATION BEGIN WITH ZIMMERMAN'S APPROACH?

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Zimmerman approached, then made a threatening movement. Trayvon Martin, in legitimate fear for his life attempted to defend himself, and failed when Zimmerman pulled out his gun and killed Trayvon Martin.

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Easy Peasy. And given Zimmerman's TRAINING in not pursuing 'suspects', it's definitely an intentional violation of that training.

Zimmerman KNEW what he was doing was wrong. THEN HE DISOBEYED PRUDENT INSTRUCTIONS.

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That's TWO choices to go out and end Trayvon Martin's life, which no reasonable and prudent person would have made. THAT is why he's sitting in jail awaiting word on if he's going to be able to meet whatever bond is set before his trial on murder. Because he CHOSE to go out there -- against his training and against instructions otherwise -- and kill Trayvon Martin.

So, Zimmerman's CHOICE to go out after Trayvon Martin was intentional. And he KNEW IT WAS WRONG.

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Actually, murder 2 seems sorta conservative in this context, where Zimmerman KNEW that going after Martin was wrong, and made every choice to continue his pursuit, approach, threat, and killing.

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ORIGINAL: Louve00

So, Trayvon's "attack", which could have been construed as self defense as a stranger was following him and he had no clue why, did not produce protruse bleeding to the back of Zimmerman's head, nor did it give him a concussion. Hardly a very feral or vicious attack, yet made Zimmerman fear for his life to the point of having to kill a teenage kid, that he later, in court, told the family he thought Trayvon was not as young as he was, however did tell the dispatcher on the phone just before following him he did think he was that young. Hmmm.

Not only that, he refused medical treatment at the time that night, and sought medical treatment only to get a Dr's notice to go back to work the next day. And while his Dr did recommend he get a second opinion from an ENT Dr, again, he refused. Again, interesting.

And Judge Lester is a very unpredictable judge who is not happy with George or Shelly Zimmerman for lying to his court.

I, for one, am very interested to see who is going to gloat and who's tail is going to be between their legs on this debate.

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ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
the trivial injuries Zimmerman sustained AS HIS ATTACK WAS BEING REPELLED BY HIS VICTIM

What attack? There is no evidence at all that Zimmerman attacked Martin. Stop making up things. And get over it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
his own attorney said, Zimmerman doesn't TRUST the court....

So he distrusts everyone and everything. So what? Such people exist. Should they all be jailed for being distrusting?

Some people on here are Rule-obsessed. You appear to be Zimmerman obsessed.

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ORIGINAL: Raiikun

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ORIGINAL: igor2003

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

You have proclaimed the diallo case to be murder to claim it as proof that Martin was justified to attack based on that precident makes you a hypocrite.

When did you hold the seance to find out what Diallo was thinking?

Martin didn't attack.  He DEFENDED himself from Zimmerman's attempt to detain him.

Zero proof of that.

The State still has not shown a single piece of evidence that disproves George's story of being pinned to the ground after having his nose broken and his head banged against concrete, etc.

If the State cannot refute that, George goes free.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
the trivial injuries Zimmerman sustained AS HIS ATTACK WAS BEING REPELLED BY HIS VICTIM

What attack? There is no evidence at all that Zimmerman attacked Martin. Stop making up things. And get over it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
his own attorney said, Zimmerman doesn't TRUST the court....

So he distrusts everyone and everything. So what? Such people exist. Should they all be jailed for being distrusting?

Some people on here are Rule-obsessed. You appear to be Zimmerman obsessed.

I don't trust government, mainly because I worked for Government at county , state, and Fedral level for nearly thirty years. Does this make me a traitor of course not. Maybe Zimmerman distrusts the court because of experiance and maybe he is a little parinoid neither pertains to his guilt or innocence

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Thats why I kept questioning the bleeding... head wounds bleed profusely...

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]

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ORIGINAL: Owner59



Ah but you cons trust the government enough to determine guilt and then execute people......

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

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ORIGINAL: Louve00

So, Trayvon's "attack", which could have been construed as self defense as a stranger was following him and he had no clue why, did not produce protruse bleeding to the back of Zimmerman's head, nor did it give him a concussion. Hardly a very feral or vicious attack, yet made Zimmerman fear for his life to the point of having to kill a teenage kid, that he later, in court, told the family he thought Trayvon was not as young as he was, however did tell the dispatcher on the phone just before following him he did think he was that young. Hmmm.

Not only that, he refused medical treatment at the time that night, and sought medical treatment only to get a Dr's notice to go back to work the next day. And while his Dr did recommend he get a second opinion from an ENT Dr, again, he refused. Again, interesting.

And Judge Lester is a very unpredictable judge who is not happy with George or Shelly Zimmerman for lying to his court.

I, for one, am very interested to see who is going to gloat and who's tail is going to be between their legs on this debate.

All true, in fact I have said several times that I think Martin would have had a very good self defense argument if he were on trial. However it seems that Zimmerman has an equally good self defense argument. You need to realise that the extent of Zimmermans actual injuries are not important, his fear that they would be is, keep in mine a man in NYC was killed by one punch bouncing his head off the pavement one time so regardless of the injury sustained at the time of the shooting fear of more serious even fatal injury was not unreasonable.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun

"The law, however, does not require that Mr. Wyche, or anyone situated as he was on the night in question, actually sustain serious bodily injury before responding with force, even deadly force. It is enough that he reasonbly apprehend imminent deadly force directed against him."

State v. Wyche

And that's the problem for the State. They can point out that his injuries weren't bad all they want...that doesn't nullify self defense. Before murder 2 or manslaughter can even be considered, self defense has to be nullified.

And what matters for self defense is the moment that the shot was fired. The claim is that George was pinned down, having had his nose broken, head banged against concrete, and Trayvon was reaching for his gun. He has injuries enough to corroborate that he was on the losing end of a fight, and a witness who saw Trayvon clearly on top with George struggling to get up - that more than meets the Defense's burden at trial. Even if George was the aggressor, according to Florida law.

Thus it's up to the State to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that this scenario is false. To date, not a single piece of evidence to prove that has been shown, and if they can't refute that, George goes free.

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ORIGINAL: Raiikun

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ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

. doesnt look like he was bashed on the surface of the ground, maybe the edge of the kerb, but that would/should have been more severe.
just my 2 cents

"O'MARA: The injuries seem to be consistent with his story, though, don't they?

INVESTIGATOR GILBREATH: The injuries are consistent with a harder object striking the back of his head than his head was.

O'MARA: Could that be cement?

INVESTIGATOR GILBREATH: Could be.

O'MARA: Did you just say it was consistent or did you say it wasn't consistent?

INVESTIGATOR GILBREATH: I said it was."

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

Head injuries like when your head bounces off a hard surface. Direct correlation between a gym floor and a pavement.

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ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

Head injuries like when your head bounces off a hard surface. Direct correlation between a gym floor and a pavement.

Comments like these speak to the lack of medical education of the poster.

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ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD

Copy of the EMT report where "minor bleeding" is noted. Not profuse.