igor2003
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Raiikun
quote:
ORIGINAL: igor2003
quote:
ORIGINAL: BamaD
You have proclaimed the diallo case to be murder to claim it as proof that Martin was justified to attack based on that precident makes you a hypocrite.
When did you hold the seance to find out what Diallo was thinking?
Martin didn't attack. He DEFENDED himself from Zimmerman's attempt to detain him.
Zero proof of that.
The State still has not shown a single piece of evidence that disproves George's story of being pinned to the ground after having his nose broken and his head banged against concrete, etc.
If the State cannot refute that, George goes free.
There are no actual pictures of the incident or eye witnesses to the start of the physical encounter, so if that is what you mean by "proof" then you are right. But there are several individual statements which, when put together, make a very compelling argument that Zimmerman did, in fact, try to detain Martin.
First, let's take Zimmerman's statements. On the night of the shooting Zimmerman says he saw Martin emerge from the bushes and approach him. The next day, during his walk through he changes his story and says he didn't see where Martin came from. In either event, they were at the top of the "T" when the altercation began.
According to Zimmerman on his walk through, Martin approaches and asks, "Yo, you got a problem, Homie?" (or similar words...I'm not going to bother looking up the exact quote right here.) Zimmerman replies "I don't have a problem," to which Martin says, "Well you do now," at which point he hits Zimmerman, breaking his nose and knocking him to the ground. Martin then jumps on Zimmerman, pummeling him, bashing his head, etc. etc. until Zimmerman pulls his gun and shoots Martin.
According to the EMT report, Martin's body was located behind 2831 Retreat View Circle. The woman that lives at 2831 Retreat View Circle later said in a TV interview that Martin was shot in her back yard. From what I can see in the various maps and satalite photos of the area, the area behind 2831 Retreat View Circle appears to be some 50 feet or so away from the top of the "T". This indicates, yet again, that there are flaws in Zimmerman's statements, and it could not have happened as Zimmerman claims.
Now, lets look at what DeeDee has to say in her interview. First, she wants Martin to continue running, but she says she can tell he is very tired and breathing real hard and says he tells her he isn't going to run any more. They then talk about him "going back". Some people think this means "go back to where Zimmerman is" but I think when you look at the context, and take into account DeeDee's sometimes unusual phraseology she is talking about Martin "going back" to the townhouse where he is staying.
My own belief is that it is during this time that Martin has hidden in the bushes while he catches his breath...a belief that is supported by Zimmerman's own statement that he saw Martin emerge from the bushes.
Next, DeeDee says Martin gets scared and says she can tell because Martin starts to talk "real low" (in a whisper) and tells her that "the man" is getting real close. If Martin was "returning" from near the townhouse where he was staying in order to confront Zimmerman there would have been no need for the whispering nor his concern about "the man" getting close.
Martin, out of breath from running and realizing he is about to be "found" anyway, steps out of the bushes and asks Zimmerman why he is following him. Instead of simply answering Martin's question he asks, in what DeeDee describes as an angry voice, "What are you doing here?" after which it sounds to her like someone is shoved and Martin's headset comes off.
But, what has been ignored is that this is NOT the last of what DeeDee hears! Just before Martin's phone goes dead she hears Martin yell, "Get off! Get off!"
Now...the witnesses from the nearby residences have claimed that they heard the altercation travel, from north, near the "T" in a southerly direction. At one point one of the witnesses (and I admit I don't remember which one) said he (she?) saw one person chasing another though they didn't know who was chasing whom. (I also admit that this may even be one of the statements that was later changed...their stories change almost as often as Zimmerman's.)
Now, you put all of this together...
We know Zimmerman didn't get hit and knocked down at the "T". We know that for some reason Martin was yelling "Get off! Get off!"...my own guess, as supported by the surrounding incidents is that Zimmerman was grabbing at him in an attempt to detain this "asshole" to keep him from being one of the ones that "always get away". And we know that the altercation then moved south (as in one person chasing another in the direction of "home" and safety for Martin.) to the area behind 2831 Retreat View Circle where Martin was finally shot.
This, all put together, STRONGLY suggests that Zimmerman did, indeed, try to wrongfully detain Martin, and that Martin struck Zimmerman as a result.
Lastly, as to Zimmerman's self-defense claim. I can't and won't argue as to Zimmerman being held down and being on the losing end of a fist fight, and I'm sure that the prosecution is very well aware of the problems surrounding claims of self-defense in Florida. And yet they apparently do think they have a case. I can see the possibility of several areas where the prosecution may have a basis for their case, though I freely admit that it is just supposition and speculation on my part. For instance, was his "fear" legitimate, or is it a self-serving claim, made by a person shown to be unreliable in his statements, in his attempt to get out of trouble? Was he illegally carrying a firearm while under the influence of temazepam and adderall? Was he in violation of Martin's rights? There may be, and most likely are, other possibilities. I do think SYG is out of the question since he was actively pursuing the person he eventually shot.
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If the women don't find you handsome they should at least find you handy. - Red Green
At my age erections are like cops...there's never one around when you need it!
Never miss a good chance to shut up. - Will Rogers
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RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 
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