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RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/5/2012 8:59:17 AM

Raiikun

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Burden isn't on Zimmerman to prove self defense. It's on the State to disprove it.

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Post #: 101

RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/5/2012 9:02:28 AM

Raiikun

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And to borrow someone else's words who put what I've been trying to say very succinctly (while also adding some):

I really could care less if George lied or not. The NEN call by him tells me he lost sight of Trayvon long enough to render actions he had taken up to that point as no longer contemporaneously threatening to Trayvon, according to Florida Law. The crime scene also shows the location of the beginning of the struggle, confirmed by witnesses 11 and 20, proves Trayvon returned from where he had ran. Hardly the action of someone who is scared. That makes Trayvon the aggressor at that point. The crime scene doesn't lie.

Those factors makes the self defense case for George. If not then look at what happened next. George ends up with head injuries and is pinned to the ground by Trayvon.This is supported by the injuries themself, George's clothes being wet and witness #6. Again, self defense even if George was the aggressor in the beginning...which he wasn't.

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Post #: 102

RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/5/2012 9:24:27 AM

Louve00

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Judge sets Zimmermans bond at 1M

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Post #: 103

RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/5/2012 9:38:12 AM

Raiikun

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Yep, and while a lot of people are claiming it's an unfair bond, having read the order I can understand the Judge's concerns.

Expect a big spike in donations to the Defense fund though. (Just donated again myself, was waiting for the bond order to come down.)

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Post #: 104

RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/5/2012 9:53:50 AM

farglebargle

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun

Burden isn't on Zimmerman to prove self defense. It's on the State to disprove it.

Let's see how that plays out IF Zimmerman has the balls to take the stand and testify under oath... My money is on the defense not even going to self-defense specifically because they know that once Zimmerman is on the stand, his entire past history comes out in the cross-examination, and I -- for one -- can't wait to hear Zimmerman answer, "So, you've been trained not to approach any suspect, and you were told by the police that you didn't need to pursue Trayvon Martin, so why did you go against your specific training and against the explicit instructions of the police to continue your pursuit of Trayon Martin?

But again, since Zimmerman on the stand equals Zimmerman being convicted, I don't see that happening.

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Post #: 105

RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/5/2012 9:55:18 AM

farglebargle

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun

Yep, and while a lot of people are claiming it's an unfair bond, having read the order I can understand the Judge's concerns.

Expect a big spike in donations to the Defense fund though. (Just donated again myself, was waiting for the bond order to come down.)

Why would you donate again, since Zimmerman's defense fund is about TWICE what he needs to put up, right?

I mean, he ALREADY has the money, right?

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Post #: 106

RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/5/2012 9:57:34 AM

mnottertail

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun

Burden isn't on Zimmerman to prove self defense. It's on the State to disprove it.

and you dont understand burden of proof in the legal sense. simple and clear as that from your many posts attesting to it.

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Post #: 107

RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/5/2012 10:00:59 AM

farglebargle

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http://www.wsvn.com/pdf/zimmerman_order_setting_bond.pdf

The Judge's commentary is enlightening.

"This Court has, thus far, declined to exercise its contempt powers..."

"this Court finds that circumstances indicate that the Defendant was preparing to flee to avoid prosecution, but such plans were thwarted;"

< Message edited by farglebargle -- 7/5/2012 10:11:51 AM >

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Post #: 108

RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/5/2012 10:08:57 AM

Hillwilliam

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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

http://www.wsvn.com/pdf/zimmerman_order_setting_bond.pdf

The Judge's commentary is enlightening.

"This Court has, thus far, declined to exercise its contempt powers..."

I think I recall saying a few weeks ago that judges are human beings and when they are lied to it pisses them off.

This seems to be a pissed off judge.

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Post #: 109

RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/5/2012 10:12:02 AM

BamaD

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD

Comments like these speak to the lack of medical education of the poster.

Elaborate rather than ridicule, both are hard flat sufaces. and I know that the textures are different corelates to, rough equivelance, not identical.

How am I ridiculing you? I'm stating a fact that you don't have a medical background and that is easy to deduce from your statement.

A closed head injury, like the one your son sustained, sort of proves the point that Zimmerman couldn't have experienced the sort of skull bashing he claims. I don't know if you've seen it or not, but there is a video of a walk through Zimmerman did the next morning with police officers. In that video he states that his head was partly on the sidewalk and partly on the grass. If Martin had been slamming Zimmerman's head down the way Zimmerman describes, hitting that edge would have provided far more trauma than a couple of lacerations to the back of his head. I find it difficult to believe he wouldn't have had a fractured skull, never-mind a concussion, and yet there were no references to that in the medical report from what the media has indicated. Having his head smashed repeatedly against the sidewalk would have meant his brain would have been shaken inside the skull, impacting against the inner walls of the skull itself. That degree of injury isn't something a person can so easily get up and walk away from. There is zero doubt in my mind that Zimmerman is lying about Martin smashing his head against the sidewalk. His injuries just do not correspond with his description.

In answer to your question by simply proclaiming your supirior knowledge without any support. While appearently not your intent it is a tactic often used to dismiss something people don't want to hear but cannot refute.
As for your comments they make valid points. Has it occured to you that Zimmerman could have easily
precived the force driving his head to the pavement as much greater than it actually was. His head was struck by a blunt object. It makes more sense that his head wasn't bounced as hard as he thought than that it was struck by something else and he said it was pavement. Does anyone know what kind of pavement it was we have been saying cement but is that confirmed. If it was one of these blacktop concoctions it would change the equasion again.

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Post #: 110

RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/5/2012 10:19:55 AM

BamaD

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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

I'm arguing from the point of view of the PROSECUTION. Which is, of course, the relevant context.

Christian? Jesus is a fucking pussy. MY G-D SMITES FIRST, THEN SORTS 'EM OUT.

See Also: The Bible ( what you'd call "The Old Testament" as if there's some other one... )

DevianlytD this is an example of what I was talking about.
Congradulations you have branched out to show your lack of knowlege in a whole new area. The Bible is divided into two parts , The Old Testement, And the New Testement which is the story of Christ.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 7/5/2012 10:23:03 AM >

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RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/5/2012 10:24:38 AM

BamaD

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun

Burden isn't on Zimmerman to prove self defense. It's on the State to disprove it.

and you dont understand burden of proof in the legal sense. simple and clear as that from your many posts attesting to it.

Your position presumes guilty until proven innocent.

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RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/5/2012 10:28:40 AM

farglebargle

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

I'm arguing from the point of view of the PROSECUTION. Which is, of course, the relevant context.

Christian? Jesus is a fucking pussy. MY G-D SMITES FIRST, THEN SORTS 'EM OUT.

See Also: The Bible ( what you'd call "The Old Testament" as if there's some other one... )

DevianlytD this is an example of what I was talking about.
Congradulations you have branched out to show your lack of knowlege in a whole new area. The Bible is divided into two parts , The Old Testement, And the New Testement which is the story of Christ.

"The Story of Christ"...

Lol... You might as well be talking about "The Story of Muhammad" or "The Story of Joseph Smith" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEGDlC9MVEk for all that crap has to do with G-d.

Here's a hint. THE MESSIAH HAS NOT RETURNED, YET.

< Message edited by farglebargle -- 7/5/2012 10:30:14 AM >

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Post #: 113

RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/5/2012 10:31:47 AM

Raiikun

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun

Burden isn't on Zimmerman to prove self defense. It's on the State to disprove it.

and you dont understand burden of proof in the legal sense. simple and clear as that from your many posts attesting to it.

Okay, prove it then.

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Post #: 114

RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/5/2012 10:33:00 AM

Raiikun

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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun

Yep, and while a lot of people are claiming it's an unfair bond, having read the order I can understand the Judge's concerns.

Expect a big spike in donations to the Defense fund though. (Just donated again myself, was waiting for the bond order to come down.)

Why would you donate again, since Zimmerman's defense fund is about TWICE what he needs to put up, right?

I mean, he ALREADY has the money, right?

The legal expenses don't stop with posting bond. You are aware of this, right?

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Post #: 115

RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/5/2012 10:35:55 AM

farglebargle

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Did Zimmerman ever retract that claim of indigence? I didn't see explicit mention of that, although I did see that the Court noticed Zimmerman's defrauding of his own defense attorney. I'm not clear exactly *what* Zimmerman's financial arrangements are at the moment, and given their lack of honesty, I'd consider twice about donating, especially if the donations become relevant to future prosecutions.

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It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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Post #: 116

RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/5/2012 10:38:52 AM

angelikaJ

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJohnSteed

IRREGARDLESS...

If zimmerman is innocent or guilty. They will find him guilty because

1. They don't want rioting
2. That if they do find him innocent then Obama will start screaming racism an violation of his civil rights and have him brought up on federal charges.

The fact is Mr. Zimmerman is DOOMED why?? because he wasn't black when he shot a black teenager.

If Zimmerman was as black as his victim, this would be a non story and you know it!!

If the victim had been a woman and not a black teen-aged boy then there would be much less ambiguity about whether or it it may have been reasonable for Martin to try and possibly defend 'herself' against the perception of a credible threat.
First being followed in the vehicle, then on foot and then close enough for a confrontation to take place.

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Post #: 117

RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/5/2012 10:43:16 AM

Raiikun

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Well, a woman might not have turned back around and confronted George like the evidence and witness statements indicate Trayvon did.

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Post #: 118

RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/5/2012 10:52:35 AM

mnottertail

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun

Burden isn't on Zimmerman to prove self defense. It's on the State to disprove it.

and you dont understand burden of proof in the legal sense. simple and clear as that from your many posts attesting to it.

Okay, prove it then.

your definition is wrong. (there I just proved it)

the obligation (you can look this up and comprehend english right?) of a single party to persuade there is support or contradiction (in this case it would be contradiction) of FACT. (there are very few facts in this case).

see also, reasonable doubt.

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Post #: 119

RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/5/2012 11:16:50 AM

Raiikun

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No, you didn't prove it.

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Post #: 120