quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

I'm a trained gun user, trained both by the military and my father to an exacting standard. Faced with a dim figure in front of me in a movie theater who is firing into the crowd would I draw and return fire if I was carrying a concealed firearm? HELL NO!

First, there is no way to be sure of a clear target. People are going to be panicing and moving about erratically. The poor lighting coupled with the sounds and lights from the movie itself would make even being sure of who is shooting pretty dicey. For whatever reason he's ok with killing random strangers, I'm not.

Second, most concealed carry firearms are small caliber low power weapons, necessry to be truly concealable and comfortale for full time carry. Even in ideal lighting with no distractions that sort of weapon is of questionable accuracy beyond maybe 20 or 30 feet. Firing a weapon and missing just makes you a target, readily identifiable from the muzzle flash. An AR or AK knock off is far more accuarte and lethal so its unlikely the exchange of fire will go in your favor.

Third, this SOB was wearing some sort of "bulletproof" vest. So my training to shoot for center mass would be useless as there is no way a small caliber round is going through even a steel insert vest much less a decent kevlar one. So in the unlikely situation where my first shot does strike him it is unlikely to kill or even incapacitate him.

Finally if you do survive the gunfight you are now holding a smoking gun in a room full of gunshot victims. Do you realy think the first responders will bother trying to arrest you or will it be shoot first, ask questions later?

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

I'm a trained gun user, trained both by the military and my father to an exacting standard. Faced with a dim figure in front of me in a movie theater who is firing into the crowd would I draw and return fire if I was carrying a concealed firearm? HELL NO!

First, there is no way to be sure of a clear target. People are going to be panicing and moving about erratically. The poor lighting coupled with the sounds and lights from the movie itself would make even being sure of who is shooting pretty dicey. For whatever reason he's ok with killing random strangers, I'm not.

Second, most concealed carry firearms are small caliber low power weapons, necessry to be truly concealable and comfortale for full time carry. Even in ideal lighting with no distractions that sort of weapon is of questionable accuracy beyond maybe 20 or 30 feet. Firing a weapon and missing just makes you a target, readily identifiable from the muzzle flash. An AR or AK knock off is far more accuarte and lethal so its unlikely the exchange of fire will go in your favor.

Third, this SOB was wearing some sort of "bulletproof" vest. So my training to shoot for center mass would be useless as there is no way a small caliber round is going through even a steel insert vest much less a decent kevlar one. So in the unlikely situation where my first shot does strike him it is unlikely to kill or even incapacitate him.

Finally if you do survive the gunfight you are now holding a smoking gun in a room full of gunshot victims. Do you realy think the first responders will bother trying to arrest you or will it be shoot first, ask questions later?

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
I'm glad that the dirtbag was taken out but so was a little child (and definitely by the "good guy's" gun). I am not glad about the second part of that last statement.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

I'm a trained gun user, trained both by the military and my father to an exacting standard. Faced with a dim figure in front of me in a movie theater who is firing into the crowd would I draw and return fire if I was carrying a concealed firearm? HELL NO!

First, there is no way to be sure of a clear target. People are going to be panicing and moving about erratically. The poor lighting coupled with the sounds and lights from the movie itself would make even being sure of who is shooting pretty dicey. For whatever reason he's ok with killing random strangers, I'm not.

Second, most concealed carry firearms are small caliber low power weapons, necessry to be truly concealable and comfortale for full time carry. Even in ideal lighting with no distractions that sort of weapon is of questionable accuracy beyond maybe 20 or 30 feet. Firing a weapon and missing just makes you a target, readily identifiable from the muzzle flash. An AR or AK knock off is far more accuarte and lethal so its unlikely the exchange of fire will go in your favor.

Third, this SOB was wearing some sort of "bulletproof" vest. So my training to shoot for center mass would be useless as there is no way a small caliber round is going through even a steel insert vest much less a decent kevlar one. So in the unlikely situation where my first shot does strike him it is unlikely to kill or even incapacitate him.

Finally if you do survive the gunfight you are now holding a smoking gun in a room full of gunshot victims. Do you realy think the first responders will bother trying to arrest you or will it be shoot first, ask questions later?

I'm also a trained weapons user although I choose not to own or carry, anymore.

Your first point is well taken but I'm also thinking that of the few people standing (I'm sure some hit the floor), with the light from the screen, one might be able to distinguish a target (especially since reports are that he entered through a fire exit which are almost always "down front").

Accuracy is also a fair assessment and you are correct but, again; as a reasonable, licensed weapon-carrying citizen, are you obligated to try and help your fellow man?

Your third point could not reasonably have been known at the time of the incident so, for the purposes of this discussion, I'm passing it by.

Lastly, once the dirtbag is down, why would you not re-holster or drop your weapon, when the first responders get there? Ballistics will tell your tale, at that point.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
I'm glad that the dirtbag was taken out but so was a little child (and definitely by the "good guy's" gun). I am not glad about the second part of that last statement.

In that instance the problem was, ignoring the perp, only one was armed. Was it 1 sec, 5 sec, 20 sec till he off'd the perp? Say it was 15 sec for him to acquire a sight picture. Another armed person might have acquired at different angle at 10 sec with no collateral injury. And potentially another at 6 sec.

Another thing to remember, as horrific as it is and as distasteful as hitting that little girl is, she may well have died along with many others at the hands of the perp without his intervention. Sometimes you're damned of you do and damned if you don't. Choose.

Sucks, but there it is.

One other thing. If you're going to carry, go to the range and practice.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Would I want to be someone who carries a gun everywhere? What a headache. What a load to carry (metaphorical load), what a mindset. It's not a world I'd want to live in, let alone create for myself.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

I'm a trained gun user, trained both by the military and my father to an exacting standard. Faced with a dim figure in front of me in a movie theater who is firing into the crowd would I draw and return fire if I was carrying a concealed firearm? HELL NO!

First, there is no way to be sure of a clear target. People are going to be panicing and moving about erratically. The poor lighting coupled with the sounds and lights from the movie itself would make even being sure of who is shooting pretty dicey. For whatever reason he's ok with killing random strangers, I'm not.

Second, most concealed carry firearms are small caliber low power weapons, necessry to be truly concealable and comfortale for full time carry. Even in ideal lighting with no distractions that sort of weapon is of questionable accuracy beyond maybe 20 or 30 feet. Firing a weapon and missing just makes you a target, readily identifiable from the muzzle flash. An AR or AK knock off is far more accuarte and lethal so its unlikely the exchange of fire will go in your favor.

Third, this SOB was wearing some sort of "bulletproof" vest. So my training to shoot for center mass would be useless as there is no way a small caliber round is going through even a steel insert vest much less a decent kevlar one. So in the unlikely situation where my first shot does strike him it is unlikely to kill or even incapacitate him.

Finally if you do survive the gunfight you are now holding a smoking gun in a room full of gunshot victims. Do you realy think the first responders will bother trying to arrest you or will it be shoot first, ask questions later?

If you can not hit a man in the head at 20 feet with a .22 why do you have a gun?

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
The guy drops down out of sight so you drop or holster your weapon? Really? I thought you claimed to be well trained in using firearms? The first responders are unlikely to reveal themselves to a potential shooter. They are likely to take up a concealed position and simply shoot anyone firing or holding a weapon.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
I suggested that the Gun Control lobby would soon be crawling out from under their rocks and bewailing the need for even more gun control.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
The guy drops down out of sight so you drop or holster your weapon? Really? I thought you claimed to be well trained in using firearms? The first responders are unlikely to reveal themselves to a potential shooter. They are likely to take up a concealed position and simply shoot anyone firing or holding a weapon.

What I actually said was:

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

Lastly, once the dirtbag is down, why would you not re-holster or drop your weapon, when the first responders get there? Ballistics will tell your tale, at that point.

Not that he "dropped down"; that I dropped him. Also, please notice the: " ... when the first responders get there" part.

Please don't strawman me. I like to think that you're one of the few people around here with whom I rarely agree that has some level of integrity.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr



Please don't strawman me. I like to think that you're one of the few people around here with whom I rarely agree that has some level of integrity.