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'Training' makes me crazy - 8/8/2012 12:02:28 AM

UnownedCOBeauty

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I'm new to this, so please bear with me, and my thoughts tend to wander about instead of staying in one place, but I promise there's a point. :)

In the past year, I've encountered many Doms who want to 'train' a submissive, whether she is new or not, to be the 'perfect' slave.

As I've understood it, training is different for every Dom. He or she may train differently from another Dom, or teach different things to his or her submissive. (This includes the fact that everyone has different needs and wants.)

So what exactly is the point in training with a Dom if you're not 'serious' about strengthening a relationship? Wouldn't you otherwise be bouncing from person to person, training in different ways but not potentially training to submit to your future 'relationship' Dom?

I don't know why, but it absolutely irks me to read a profile where a Dom states something to the tune of "I will train you to be perfect. I'm not seeking anything serious..." Umm, wha-? What am I missing here?

Is it absolutely incorrect of me to NOT want to train with some random Dom when I'm seeking something serious from someone in the future?

Doesn't this create confusion later on, such as hard habits to break? (For instance: "But I always kneel and never look my Master directly in the eye"... "You will do no such thing with me.")

Is it true that most Doms who mention 'training' are mostly talking about sex or sexual submission, and not really an all-inclusive type of submission training? In that case, wouldn't it be less misleading to just say you want a sex slave?

I don't feel I need much 'training' from any one I'm not serious about, sexual or otherwise. I'm naturally submissive and may need guidance from a potential Dom, as well as training later on to fit his specific needs, but I don't feel I should train with someone I don't care for just for the sake of training.

Am I the only one who feels this way? Or is there something I'm missing as far as training goes? Is this a necessary thing I'm missing out on or denying myself, only to screw myself later when I do meet the right Dom? Or am I at least 'sorta' heading in the right direction here?

Any constructive help would be awesome. This has been driving me bananas.

< Message edited by UnownedCOBeauty -- 8/8/2012 12:08:33 AM >

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"Submit to you --
could that be what you are saying?
the way ripples on the water
submit to an idling wing?" -Ono no Komachi

RE: 'Training' makes me crazy - 8/8/2012 12:38:59 AM

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I agree with you, 100%.

Welcome to the forums!~

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(in reply to UnownedCOBeauty)

RE: 'Training' makes me crazy - 8/8/2012 12:44:48 AM

UnownedCOBeauty

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Oh thank goodness. I don't feel like a COMPLETE crazy person. :) And thank you!

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could that be what you are saying?
the way ripples on the water
submit to an idling wing?" -Ono no Komachi

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RE: 'Training' makes me crazy - 8/8/2012 12:58:32 AM

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My suspicion is most such 'training' is to accustom the bottom to perform instant BJs on command with no hesitation. My idea of actual training is more like becoming an accomplished butler or maid. Learning the expected duties well enough to mostly anticipate needs and frequently make commands unnecessary. Which often involved becoming an invisible personality. Exactly the opposite of what I want of a sexual partner, power exchange or not. Isn't a point of sexual relations emotional intimacy, being as real as you get?

(in reply to UnownedCOBeauty)

RE: 'Training' makes me crazy - 8/8/2012 1:02:00 AM

MyMasterStephen

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I think you're quite right. If you're looking for a lasting relationship, then you need to spend a lot of time in the "getting to know each other" phase before you can start any kind of "training". Indeed, the getting-to-know-you is in itself a form of learning, as you come to understand what the other person wants and needs, and how they respond to different stimuli and situations.

Actual, formal "training" to me has connotations of ritual, and is focussed on specific traits and situations. The "eye contact" thing that you mention is one example. However, I find it hard to imagine a relationship where eye contact is forbidden on a 24/7 basis. We play it as a game for certain periods of time - an evening, a weekend - but to live without ever being able to look your Dom/sub, your life partner, in the eye? What kind of a relationship is that?

To me, "training" is something intended to iron out the wrinkles. I have trained my girl to accept the word "cunt", which she previously found too horrible even to write or type, and now she rejoices in that word - but only between the two of us. I am training her to type and write English spellings and to use English pronunciations of words - purely for my own amusement. I encourage her to live a more orderly life - her paperwork filing is awful; I have encouraged her to give up smoking, and to eat more healthily. Can these be classed as "training"?

This is one of "those" questions... Ask a dozen different Doms, and you'll get a dozen (or more) different answers.

You obviously have your head screwed on straight, so my best advice would be to use your own judgement. If someone wants to give you "training" that you would enjoy, or that might be regarded as generally useful or positive, then go with it. But any kind of "training" that is specific to that Dom should be regarded with a sceptical eye. Are they doing it for the benefit of the relationship, or purely to get their own rocks off? You always have the right to say "no" until you voluntarily give up that right, and if something feels wrong for you then use your head. If the Dom is someone you like, and are coming to trust, and believe might be the "One", then you should naturally be falling into alignment with them and wanting to learn how they like things to be. If you don't feel that desire, then just have fun and keep looking.

The best of luck to you.

Edited to add: Great shoe collection!

< Message edited by MyMasterStephen -- 8/8/2012 1:05:39 AM >

(in reply to UnownedCOBeauty)

RE: 'Training' makes me crazy - 8/8/2012 1:09:17 AM

UnownedCOBeauty

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MyMasterStephen

Actual, formal "training" to me has connotations of ritual, and is focussed on specific traits and situations. The "eye contact" thing that you mention is one example. However, I find it hard to imagine a relationship where eye contact is forbidden on a 24/7 basis. We play it as a game for certain periods of time - an evening, a weekend - but to live without ever being able to look your Dom/sub, your life partner, in the eye? What kind of a relationship is that?

I used that as one example to sort of clarify, but yes, you're absolutely right. It would be not only hard, but almost impossible and a bit far-fetched to keep eye contact restrictions in place at all times. There's always the polar opposite as well: Looking at someone at all times. (Ack! I don't know which sounds worse!) But really, a lot can be said through the eyes, regardless of restriction or not.

Thank you for your wise words throughout your post. I found them very helpful and slightly entertaining. :-)

_____________________________

"Submit to you --
could that be what you are saying?
the way ripples on the water
submit to an idling wing?" -Ono no Komachi

(in reply to MyMasterStephen)

RE: 'Training' makes me crazy - 8/8/2012 1:37:53 AM

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There are certainly things you can do to *improve* yourself prior to being involved in a relationship. You can take up yoga to help with relaxation, learn to cook, change a flat tire, how to shine shoes. You could create a window garden to make your world / home more welcoming and learn basic plumbing. You could take dance classes or read a bartending book, get an advanced degree and a better job, learn how to say thank you in 10 languages.

Anyone I've been with has had different things that made them happy. One guy wanted me to learn the traditional Korean tea ceremony, and another one how to cook Italian food. Do what makes you happy. Be open to love and connection. Be willing to be vulnerable but still be smart. Love yourself. Nothing is more attractive or useful.

best wishes,
sunshine

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RE: 'Training' makes me crazy - 8/8/2012 1:47:36 AM

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What you are running into, (i.e., the blow jobs on command, etc) is what happens a lot of times on the net when it comes to the idea of training. I'm not necessarily saying that you are wrong with your assessment of folks that you don't even know. I'm just popping in on the thread to say that isn't universal. Some of us use the very same word (training) to mean actually teaching about things. Stuff like leather protocols or how to plan and serve a high protocol dinner or even skills like bootblacking.

You seem to be using your best judgement, OP. This is just a reminder that all of us who use the term aren't doing so for nefarious purposes.

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Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

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RE: 'Training' makes me crazy - 8/8/2012 1:54:48 AM

UnownedCOBeauty

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Sunshinemiss:

Yes, you are absolutely right! There is always room for improvement. Nobody is perfect - least of all, me! When I have time I try to savor the little things. I work full time, I am in school full time, I have a dog and an aquarium. But I am trying to learn Italian on my own, I do something I hate every day for at least ten minutes (I just pick something random like... brushing my teeth. I'm KIDDING. Haha. But really, things like washing my sheets or organizing cupboards.), and I also have my own rituals or standards to follow... I consider it a sort of 'training' I suppose, to make sure I have a quiet moment every day to reflect and be alone. I try to remember to enrich my life and not just live it (hence my pup and my aquarist interest). But sometimes that's easier said than done.

Oddly enough, I took up meditation to relax and be calm, yoga to be more flexible (never know when you'll meet a partner who wants to tie you up!), and I've got basic plumbing down to a science. How are you so psychic? :-P

Thank you for your kindness.

< Message edited by UnownedCOBeauty -- 8/8/2012 1:55:28 AM >

_____________________________

"Submit to you --
could that be what you are saying?
the way ripples on the water
submit to an idling wing?" -Ono no Komachi

(in reply to sunshinemiss)

RE: 'Training' makes me crazy - 8/8/2012 2:14:33 AM

UnownedCOBeauty

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LadyPact:

Thank you for clarifying. I wondered if someone would offer up the other types of training available, and you've done just that. I did ask if training was specifically for sexual purposes or not, and you've hit the nail on the head in that it doesn't have to be!

I once met a Dom who courted me a short while. I asked him if he would train me in Protocol (again, this is something that may differ between Doms, and so I understood training with him might mean I'd need tweaking from someone else later on down the road) and his answer to me was "No." Meanwhile, he wanted me to submit in other ways (yes, mostly sexual). Needless to say, I had a very hard time allowing myself to do that. When I asked him why he wouldn't teach me Protocol, he had no other reason than that he wasn't sure he was interested in me as anything more than a play partner. To which I promptly dismissed myself from him, as I was not seeking 'just a play partner'.

And so... since you mentioned it, is more serious training (outside of sexual training) then reserved for more serious potential partners? Or is it something that can be offered to those who want to learn? For instance, would it be odd of me to make a request such as wanting to learn Protocol from someone who wasn't my 'one true' Dom (as I mentioned above)? Or is it odd that someone would withhold it because they weren't serious about me?

A Dom I was talking to recently sent me photos of a girl he had tied up, naked (Gah! As if I was interested!) and told me, "Oh, she's just some girl I'm training." I found it appalling that he'd found that appropriate to share and considered that 'training'. In my mind, I thought, "Well, I wouldn't want you 'training' me in a billion years." Especially after he mentioned it was a casual thing. Wha-wha-what? What is 'casual' training?

Sorry my musings ramble about and flit from here to there. Hopefully you can kind of make sense of what I was going for here... though I can't imagine why you would. I'm having a hard time following myself this evening. So any advice is helpful. Thanks!

_____________________________

"Submit to you --
could that be what you are saying?
the way ripples on the water
submit to an idling wing?" -Ono no Komachi

(in reply to LadyPact)

RE: 'Training' makes me crazy - 8/8/2012 3:17:45 AM

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Let's see if I can explain Myself right.

For an old leather chick like Me, it's hard to understand why someone wouldn't want to teach about protocols. It's somewhat similar to being approached to teach topping skills. It's kind of what I'm supposed to be doing here.

There may be certain influences that I will reserve just for members of My own household. The stuff that is dynamic specific. Those kinds of things aren't the end all/be all. Some of it is just navigating a more structured environment and learning a different way. I can't imagine why I would withhold that from someone if they wanted to learn about it. For Me, a lot of what is related to protocol is about beauty and grace. It would be like the Mona Lisa and that painting having an effect on Me, but telling people they were never allowed to see the portrait.

It really doesn't have to be your 'one true Dom'. The idea is to learn about various styles and see what is out there. High protocol may not be a good fit for you at all. How are you supposed to know that if nobody will take the time to teach you or let you explore it?

If I might give some advice, there may be great benefits for you to be amongst kinky folk. The real world, rather than the internet types. Also, you may be very interested in certain books about the leather lifestyle. We leather folk haven't exactly cornered the market on protocol stuff, but it's a good place to start.

My mailbox is always open.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to UnownedCOBeauty)

RE: 'Training' makes me crazy - 8/8/2012 3:32:44 AM

UnownedCOBeauty

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That's all very good to know. I've told many people I've met "I don't know what I'm interested in, but I want to try everything at least once so I can get a good idea." And very true! I have no clue if I'd be interested in high protocol, and I won't know until I dip in my toes. I once did no-strings housework and learned real quick that it didn't quite float my boat. But doing housework for someone I care for? Different story altogether.

I do have a handful of close, real-time 'kinky' friends in the community and consider them all my mentors (I love getting fifty different answers to toss around in my brain). But some things (like protocol) are hard to bring up. I have asked on a few occasions, but received more verbal communication about high protocol events, rather than the actual learning aspect of it. I've also been told on occasion that a demonstration could be made, but I think, too, some people get busy and I don't 'remind' them often enough that I'm still waiting in the wings. That may be entirely my fault.

Leather is something I have yet to understand. I haven't done much research on it on my own, and while I do know several people in the local community who are well-versed in that area, it's something I've never really taken upon myself to learn about and it's nothing anyone's really tried to thrust toward me at this point. It may be something I can look into next!

_____________________________

"Submit to you --
could that be what you are saying?
the way ripples on the water
submit to an idling wing?" -Ono no Komachi

(in reply to LadyPact)

RE: 'Training' makes me crazy - 8/8/2012 5:00:01 AM

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Yay! Another Colorado person!

quote:

ORIGINAL: UnownedCOBeauty

I once met a Dom who courted me a short while. I asked him if he would train me in Protocol (again, this is something that may differ between Doms, and so I understood training with him might mean I'd need tweaking from someone else later on down the road) and his answer to me was "No." Meanwhile, he wanted me to submit in other ways (yes, mostly sexual). Needless to say, I had a very hard time allowing myself to do that. When I asked him why he wouldn't teach me Protocol, he had no other reason than that he wasn't sure he was interested in me as anything more than a play partner. To which I promptly dismissed myself from him, as I was not seeking 'just a play partner'.

He was a wanker.

quote:

And so... since you mentioned it, is more serious training (outside of sexual training) then reserved for more serious potential partners? Or is it something that can be offered to those who want to learn? For instance, would it be odd of me to make a request such as wanting to learn Protocol from someone who wasn't my 'one true' Dom (as I mentioned above)? Or is it odd that someone would withhold it because they weren't serious about me?

There are a few Coloradans that are very much into protocol. One of them is Otterswim, who is a semiregular poster here. I'll PM you a link to a Colorado High protocol group. Even if it's not what you want, some of the members might be able to point you in the right direction.

quote:

A Dom I was talking to recently sent me photos of a girl he had tied up, naked (Gah! As if I was interested!) and told me, "Oh, she's just some girl I'm training." I found it appalling that he'd found that appropriate to share and considered that 'training'. In my mind, I thought, "Well, I wouldn't want you 'training' me in a billion years." Especially after he mentioned it was a casual thing. Wha-wha-what? What is 'casual' training?

One of the common idiocies you'll run across is men who have pics of women bound or otherwise being topped. They figure it turns them on - why wouldn't it turn women on? Worst case is when they use an ex-sub's pics without their consent. In this case, the wanker likely stole a pic off the Internet and claimed it to be his current trainee. (Yes, men lie on the Internet.)

"Casual training" means "I get my rocks off with no commitment".

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RE: 'Training' makes me crazy - 8/8/2012 5:32:45 AM

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Personally to me "training" entails you (the sub/slave) getting to know my likes/dislikes and quirks. It does not need to be sexual in any way, and is mostly part of the "getting to know you" part of the relationship. Now there can certainly be sexual based training. IE: if you've never given a blowjob before or never had anal sex you may certainly need some time and help to get used to/good at those.

On the flip side I've seen many sub/slaves on the other side of this site looking for a series of short term situations with several different Masters/Doms in order to get a taste of many different situations and a wide assortment of varied kinks. They do this before they ever settle on trying to find a serious relationship with any one person... or so they said anyways.

There is no right answer to it, but certainly if their "training" only consists of you doing something sexual, that pretty much tells you exactly what they are interested and what you can probably expect from them (very little of worth).

As with pretty much anything... talk it over with them. If they are unwilling to talk, or seem to not give a damn about your concerns, then you would be better off bailing unless you want to ride that trainwreck through.

(in reply to DarkSteven)

RE: 'Training' makes me crazy - 8/8/2012 6:11:59 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: UnownedCOBeauty

I'm new to this, so please bear with me, and my thoughts tend to wander about instead of staying in one place, but I promise there's a point. :)

In the past year, I've encountered many Doms who want to 'train' a submissive, whether she is new or not, to be the 'perfect' slave.

As I've understood it, training is different for every Dom. He or she may train differently from another Dom, or teach different things to his or her submissive. (This includes the fact that everyone has different needs and wants.)

So what exactly is the point in training with a Dom if you're not 'serious' about strengthening a relationship? Wouldn't you otherwise be bouncing from person to person, training in different ways but not potentially training to submit to your future 'relationship' Dom?

I don't know why, but it absolutely irks me to read a profile where a Dom states something to the tune of "I will train you to be perfect. I'm not seeking anything serious..." Umm, wha-? What am I missing here?

Is it absolutely incorrect of me to NOT want to train with some random Dom when I'm seeking something serious from someone in the future?

Doesn't this create confusion later on, such as hard habits to break? (For instance: "But I always kneel and never look my Master directly in the eye"... "You will do no such thing with me.")

Is it true that most Doms who mention 'training' are mostly talking about sex or sexual submission, and not really an all-inclusive type of submission training? In that case, wouldn't it be less misleading to just say you want a sex slave?

I don't feel I need much 'training' from any one I'm not serious about, sexual or otherwise. I'm naturally submissive and may need guidance from a potential Dom, as well as training later on to fit his specific needs, but I don't feel I should train with someone I don't care for just for the sake of training.

Am I the only one who feels this way? Or is there something I'm missing as far as training goes? Is this a necessary thing I'm missing out on or denying myself, only to screw myself later when I do meet the right Dom? Or am I at least 'sorta' heading in the right direction here?

Any constructive help would be awesome. This has been driving me bananas.

I don't like the term "training". I don't mention it anywhere in my profile. Athletes "train" to be competitors. Slaves don't need to be "trained" to compete with anyone. It's just so silly. I happily teach my girls things that I believe will benefit them, encourage them to explore their interests to give them fuller lives, and lay out my personal expectations. But I do not consider any of that stuff training. Is she learning something? Sure. But it is less about her being the best or perfect at a particular task, and more about doing what satisfies each of us. If she gives amazing blowjobs at the snap of the fingers, cool beans. Anyone with a mouth and a desire to please can do that. Just takes practice. So where's the "training"? Eye contact restriction is a fun thing, but certainly not for 24/7. I think I've mentioned this somewhere before, but I'll repeat it.

I believe looking a person in the eyes when you talk to them establishes a deeper sense of connection. Sure if you are doing another task that is not always possible, like driving for example. However, when sitting down having a conversation, looking the person in the eyes lets each of you know you have eachother's full attention. It is a powerfull tool for helping people overcome insecurities and build confidence. Additionally, I might restrict her from looking at me during certain situations, but during some heated caveman jungle sex, I'm going to grab her by the hair and look into those eyes of hers and pound her like a razorback. I want her to know with every gorilla thrust she's mine, this is about us, and dammit it's hot hot hot!

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(in reply to UnownedCOBeauty)

RE: 'Training' makes me crazy - 8/8/2012 6:31:35 AM

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quote:

A Dom I was talking to recently sent me photos of a girl he had tied up, naked (Gah! As if I was interested!) and told me, "Oh, she's just some girl I'm training."

Whenever a man writes to me and his primary picture is of a woman, I send him this link: Straight Doms with Female Submissive Profile Pics? [WTF]

Sometimes, it takes them a while to realize that when I'm in PSA mode, that means I'm not interested.

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RE: 'Training' makes me crazy - 8/8/2012 6:35:10 AM

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I can tell you are quite intelligent and have confidence that you will easily learn to tell the difference between someone using "training" as LadyPact does versus Desktop Diminants.

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RE: 'Training' makes me crazy - 8/8/2012 6:49:12 AM

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Not everyone uses high protocols. Some of us are more laid back. If it isn't something he does, then of course he can't teach it.

There used to be a domme, not sure if here or b.com years ago, who was big on training guys in basic manners and language. But it meant she could only get together with uneducated men. She simply didn't know what to do with a man who knew to close his mouth when he ate or who had graduated college.

If the only things you can teach are very limited, it also limits you to very uneducated partners since anyone beyond that would be beyond your expertise level.

But the 'trainers' you're encountering and really just about getting gratuitous sex outside of a relationship. Which is fine if that's what you both want and if you don't lie about it.

< Message edited by DesFIP -- 8/8/2012 6:53:17 AM >

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RE: 'Training' makes me crazy - 8/8/2012 6:51:27 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

I can tell you are quite intelligent and have confidence that you will easily learn to tell the difference between someone using "training" as LadyPact does versus Desktop Diminants.

Yeah, she's a keeper !! So, welcome to the discussion side of CM, Beauty.

Since I (mostly) interact with male s-types, I have an entirely different take on this subject. I feel most male s-types could use an extensive regime of training. Not so they can learn to be the perfect slave, I'm not sure I know what that is, but so they can learn to behave in a submissive manner.

It's been my experience most male s-types are not all that sub. They *pretend* to be sub, until they get their rocks off, then they revert back to their real non sub selves.

Training helps them understand how a dominant female expects them to behave all the time -- not just when they want something. As such, it does translate well from one dominant person to another.

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RE: 'Training' makes me crazy - 8/8/2012 7:26:05 AM

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For most of the guys that call themselves "doms", training is an euphemism for "tie you up, beat you, then fuck you". Over the years, I've also come to the conclusion that guys that say "train you to be the perfect submissive" are the guys that don't know how to have a relationship.

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