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RE: how does one handle a situation: - 8/12/2012 5:19:58 PM

BambiBoi

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I would love to help, but I can't.

Every time I try to draft a thoughtful response I just circle back to how the income earning gap between men and women in the United States is closing, and how in some circles (recent college graduates, entry level positions) the earning power and spending power of women is exceeding that of men. Meanwhile the 40 year old notion of "70 cents on the man's dollar" still controls. I understand its not so simple. These are tough times and the times, they are a-changing.

Again, I recognize that we don't have the facts we need. But I'm overwhelmed by "you can't have your feminist cake with chauvinism icing and eat it too." You make more money than him, that's what feminists have been fighting for: so you can be a real person with keys and credit cards and income like the other persons. I hate that my opinion is "you wanted equality through role normalization? Fine, lets normalize those roles. How about you buy my movie ticket this time."

I'm a jaded Bambi. But if there's any good to take away from this post its "maybe follow your heart, and don't let the thickness of his pocketbook determine the depth of his dominance. Keep in mind that many rich and powerful men are slaves to senior partners, boards of directors, and shareholders."

I'm sorry for ranting.

< Message edited by BambiBoi -- 8/12/2012 5:25:04 PM >

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RE: how does one handle a situation: - 8/12/2012 5:24:48 PM

Baroana

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OP didn't say her issue was about a woman earning more than man. She said it's about a slave earning more a master.

Moreover, the real issue in this particular matter appears not to be about the OP earning more than her boyfriend. The real issue appears to be that the boyfriend seems like a lazy bum who is mooching off of her.

(in reply to BambiBoi)

Post #: 42

RE: how does one handle a situation: - 8/12/2012 5:29:14 PM

BambiBoi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Baroana

OP didn't say her issue was about a woman earning more than man. She said it's about a slave earning more a master.

Moreover, the real issue in this particular matter appears not to be about the OP earning more than her boyfriend. The real issue appears to be that the boyfriend seems like a lazy bum who is mooching off of her.

Slaves have out-earned masters for years. It's call being a Jewish husband. (I can say it, its ok.)

I believe if OP's genders were reversed, where she was a man making more than his female dominant, this post would never have been written because "well, that's kind of what happens."

Or if OP's powers were reversed, a submissive woman making less than her dominant male this post also would not have occurred. The gender-earning issue is the heart of the matter.

Now whether he is mooching off a sugar momma or trying hard, unlucky, though a good dominant is critically important.

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Post #: 43

RE: how does one handle a situation: - 8/12/2012 5:38:29 PM

Baroana

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BambiBoi

Slaves have out-earned masters for years. It's call being a Jewish husband. (I can say it, its ok.)

Huh?

quote:

ORIGINAL: BambiBoi

I believe if OP's genders were reversed, where she was a man making more than his female dominant, this post would never have been written because "well, that's kind of what happens."

Huh?

quote:

ORIGINAL: BambiBoi

Or if OP's powers were reversed, a submissive woman making less than her dominant male this post also would not have occurred. The gender-earning issue is the heart of the matter.

Of course not, because the topic of this thread how to deal with a slave earning more a master.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BambiBoi

Now whether he is mooching off a sugar momma or trying hard, unlucky, though a good dominant is critically important.

No facts have been given to indicate that he is trying hard.

(in reply to BambiBoi)

Post #: 44

RE: how does one handle a situation: - 8/12/2012 7:39:01 PM

littlewonder

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Choline

Where the sub is the breadwinner/provider?

I'm a sub who is an RVT, I make decent money, have a car, a two bed room apartment... I handle my business.

Recently started up with Dom who has a job, at a fast food joint. no car no drivers licence, shares a stuido with 2 other people.

I guess I'm just hung up on the traditional roles as the Dom being the provider? Is there long term repercussions for my independence and his dependence?

I would just like some feed back on the situation.

As long as he can pay his bills and live comfortably then I don't really care who the breadwinner is. If this economy has taught us anything, it's that most households cannot depend on one income alone, so why care who makes what? As long as he is successful in life that's all I care...and I'm not talking financially.

Now my question is, how old is he? 21, 22? Ok then, completely acceptable.
30 and older? Not acceptable. It tells me he's still struggling in life, unless he is saving up money to maybe buy a house soon or has thousands of dollars still in college loans or something like that. Then I may think differently.

< Message edited by littlewonder -- 8/12/2012 7:43:53 PM >

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Post #: 45

RE: how does one handle a situation: - 8/12/2012 9:06:41 PM

FrankAr

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You know I read both your posts and the questions people have asked you. Has he ever been to your place and stayed there for a week or a few days, to meet your side ? Did you think about all this before being intimate with him ?

I just go with my gut feeling and this is what I see deep down. He has never met your side of the life, otherwise the group would be going.....my god he is younger than you, you go girl... You want to change him for YOUR benefit, and not the relationship. This is the vast difference that I see in the posts. I wonder if he sees you better as a blonde, or brunette, are you willing to change the hair ?

I would not mind listening to his side for about 10 mins, to get a full view, but then we can only go by the posts, and the gut feeling.

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Post #: 46

RE: how does one handle a situation: - 8/12/2012 9:30:21 PM

sexyred1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BambiBoi

quote:

ORIGINAL:
Slaves have out-earned masters for years. It's call being a Jewish husband. (I can say it, its ok.)

What does that even mean?

(in reply to BambiBoi)

Post #: 47

RE: how does one handle a situation: - 8/12/2012 9:35:08 PM

BambiBoi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1

quote:

ORIGINAL: BambiBoi

quote:

ORIGINAL:
Slaves have out-earned masters for years. It's call being a Jewish husband. (I can say it, its ok.)

What does that even mean?

It's a remark as to how Jewish men have traditionally been the breadwinner, but tend to be subservient to the wife. Mostly because nothing knows how to get her way like an angry Jewish wife. It was a joke.

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RE: how does one handle a situation: - 8/13/2012 5:02:48 AM

thishereboi

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quote:

No facts have been given to indicate that he is trying hard.

No facts were given showing that the op has to pay for everything either, but that didn't stop you from saying it was.

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Post #: 49

RE: how does one handle a situation: - 8/13/2012 7:25:47 AM

OsideGirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Choline

I didn't get to all the posts but I did want to answer a few of the questions posed:

He is in his late 20s and he does have ambition to go back to school to better his life.

He did not lose his licence due to DUI or anything wrong. He lives in a meto area and never renewed it when it expired. The problem with this is that I live about 3 hours away so I always have to drive to see him. He will be getting a larger apartment with his current roommates. I still don't like this idea. For the life style we live, privacy is important.

I guess what I'm thinking at this point is, that I'm willing to invest time into him since hes willing to improve his situation. I do like his style in the bedroom. We have similar beliefes and I enjoy spending time with him when we are in our roles and when we are vanilla.

I just know myself and if I spend 3 years having faith that he will change his situation and he doesn't? I'm a firey red-head and I will destroy the relationship... its kinda my MO. Except I'm not 22 any more, I don't have 3 years to waste.

Sorry, this jumped out at me. At this point he's only SAID that he's willing to improve his situation. Actions speak louder than words.

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RE: how does one handle a situation: - 8/13/2012 9:16:18 AM

UllrsIshtar

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Personally, I only am interested in men who have a strong desire to be the provider and breadwinner.
I can live with circumstances not working out that way, but I can't live with a man who doesn't have the ambition for it to work out that way.

Late 20s and working a minimum wage tips job because he hasn't had the ambition to push himself further than that yet would be an absolute hard limit for me.
Late 20s and working a minimum wage tips job because he hasn't had the opportunity to push himself further than that due to circumstances I may consider if we are really compatible on other fronts.

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RE: how does one handle a situation: - 8/13/2012 9:27:15 AM

OsideGirl

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I actually make more than he does. It hasn't always been that way, but since I went into business for myself it has happened. Honestly neither one of us cares, but we're also married. It's our money, not my money.

I have a friend that as an entertainment lawyer, viewed it as her role to make sure that her Master's life was easier. So, her income allowed him to pursue whatever he wanted. It's clearly working since they've been together for close to 20 years.

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Post #: 52

RE: how does one handle a situation: - 8/13/2012 11:42:18 AM

BambiBoi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

I actually make more than he does. It hasn't always been that way, but since I went into business for myself it has happened. Honestly neither one of us cares, but we're also married. It's our money, not my money.

I have a friend that as an entertainment lawyer, viewed it as her role to make sure that her Master's life was easier. So, her income allowed him to pursue whatever he wanted. It's clearly working since they've been together for close to 20 years.

Does she have a sister...?

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Post #: 53

RE: how does one handle a situation: - 8/13/2012 2:41:53 PM

DominantTweaker

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My dear, it sounds like You are a little 'hard up' and settling for less.

A man in general and specially a Master is suppose to be on a road of 'self' Mastery.

Look at it in a military sense, you are taking orders from a buck private . be he as dam good private he is still a private.

Even a seriously submissive slave man can be extremely accomplished and ultra responsible in his personal , business and family life and be WAY ahead of many people who call themselves a Master in this often falsified co-opted lifestyle.

I do not denigrate anyone who works in any honest job no matter what that job is, but there is a certain level that a so called Master must rise to by himself alone that gives him the right or ability to lead, as there is in a vanilla family man or business man ( (or Women )

I have met many men in My life who I 'salute' for many things they have accomplished far beyond Me and I admire there self Mastery, this is a road that never ends, and I am evolving on an upwards path Myself.

When you look at a person ( insert Dominant ) from across the room do you look at him reasonably objectively and say to yourself " WOW i really respect that guy", or do you have serious doubts ?

The Capt of a ship has to have matured and mastered many things, regardless of natural skills and potential in order to have the honest respect of the crew, the same with a D/s relationship be that Fem Dom or reverse.

Me think'eth You jumped into a D/s situation that is very premature and immature.

'Water seeks it's own level'

I hope this helps

(in reply to Baroana)

Post #: 54

RE: how does one handle a situation: - 8/13/2012 3:57:28 PM

littlewonder

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Unfortunately the number one cause for divorce is usually finances and so within bdsm circles it doesn't seem to be much different. Those relationships though that seem to beat the odds are the ones who don't feel the need to argue over money or even let it play any part within their relationship.

I don't need to care about his money for me to see him as the breadwinner and provider. I need his dominance, power and faith in God for me to see him as the head of the house.

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RE: how does one handle a situation: - 8/13/2012 9:09:54 PM

Dunamis2009

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Most people have already expressed my concerns about his ambition.

However, going to the original question- I'm a Dom, and our career plans involve my sub making more money than me. I've thought about that quite a bit; we're both rather traditional in general, and all my life I've just kind of always assumed I would make more than my spouse. It shook me up a bit when I first realized that would not be the case.

As per my self-given Dom responsibilities, however, I've found ways to make that seem less daunting. For one, I'm a better manager of finances- and yes, I took steps to become *much* better at the craft. Given the fact that when we marry, I'll be in charge of explaining to her how we spend and budget and giving her an allowance makes me feel in control even from this position that feels slightly weird to me. Even now, I give her my opinions on how she should save, even though our financial systems are completely separate. I'm not going to say that such a response would work for you, but it works for me.

EDIT: Just out of curiosity, what income bracket do his parents belong?

< Message edited by Dunamis2009 -- 8/13/2012 9:12:19 PM >

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RE: how does one handle a situation: - 8/13/2012 9:54:24 PM

lizi

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You're more serious about the relationship having a future than he is. You may want to sit on things for a while to see how they play out, but you're on a different track than he is, and that seems to be true from the start.

You have assessed him and his potential in your life and found him wanting, even though he's given lip service to what he thinks you want to hear. If he were serious about upgrading his situation, you'd not be here asking about this, because you'd be more sure of him.

He seems happy with things, if he weren't he'd be making changes. Can you live with how things are presently? If not then move on as it's not really fair to be with someone with the purpose of having them be someone different in order to meet your criteria. Nothing wrong with having the criteria, it's just crazy to get involved with the idea that the other person has to or should change. I'm not really sure why you took up with him in the first place, the two of you don't seem to be a match.

(in reply to Choline)

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RE: how does one handle a situation: - 8/13/2012 11:43:46 PM

SeekerMA

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I assume other people have already covered all the relevant points in much better detail and words than I could, but this is an interesting topic, and somewhat close to my heart, so I'm going to add my own response to the mix anyway.

There is nothing wrong with a slave earning more than her master. I can see how it can seem strange, and in a way it certainly is. In my mind the preferable arrangement is definitely where the dominant partner earns the most money and is the provider, things just make more sense that way given the power dynamics. But that doesn't mean that it can't work if things are the opposite. They certainly can, as long as it is a serious relationship with mutual trust and respect, so the Dom/master doesn't feel insecure about his lower salary, and doesn't abuse his sub/slave for financial gain. But that stuff goes without saying, and is true in any relationship, so it's nothing new.

The important thing isn't how much money you two make relative to each other, but that you're both either professionals working in your fields, with one simply making more money than the other, or that one is still in the process of climbing up to where he wants to be in terms of career. If the latter is your case, then you will be fine. If working at a fast food place is the norm for your Dom though, then you will run into problems, not even because of the D/s element, but because of his very life choices.

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Post #: 58

RE: how does one handle a situation: - 8/14/2012 4:20:01 AM

kalikshama

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quote:

He is in his late 20s and he does have ambition to go back to school to better his life.

He did not lose his licence due to DUI or anything wrong. He lives in a meto area and never renewed it when it expired. The problem with this is that I live about 3 hours away so I always have to drive to see him. He will be getting a larger apartment with his current roommates. I still don't like this idea. For the life style we live, privacy is important.

I guess what I'm thinking at this point is, that I'm willing to invest time into him since hes willing to improve his situation. I do like his style in the bedroom. We have similar beliefes and I enjoy spending time with him when we are in our roles and when we are vanilla.

I just know myself and if I spend 3 years having faith that he will change his situation and he doesn't?

If he had any ambition he would have already be back in school without external prompting from you.

Don't give him 3 years - give him a month, or 6 if you are feeling generous. He could get into some Adult Ed classes as early as the fall but definitely by January. I wouldn't help him with this unless he asks. An ambitious person could figure this out for himself.

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Post #: 59

RE: how does one handle a situation: - 8/14/2012 5:43:54 AM

lizi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

If he had any ambition he would have already be back in school without external prompting from you.

Don't give him 3 years - give him a month, or 6 if you are feeling generous. He could get into some Adult Ed classes as early as the fall but definitely by January. I wouldn't help him with this unless he asks. An ambitious person could figure this out for himself.

This isn't an exact replication of your situation but I thought I'd share something that may illustrate that people do indeed get up and get the ball rolling if something is valuable to them. I am a college grad (art) and stayed home off and on to take care of the kids - my ex and I divided that up at the time according to who was making more, so I did have various jobs throughout the last 20 years. I knew when the last one was off to college I'd be back in school again, because at this point I wanted to go into a different field and it seemed like the natural time to do it as I'd be starting from scratch anyway in the professional job market.

I got the ball rolling, more slowly at first, but now it's full steam ahead while I'm pursuing my educational/vocational goals that will lead to me graduating in May 2013 from the program I have elected to study. I have already been offered a job for when I am done with school from the first internship I did this summer in my chosen field - I'm serious about what I'm doing and it shows. I am certainly not unique or different, there are plenty on these boards who are following a similar path.

All I'm saying is that long ago I identified a path I wanted to take, and I followed through in a timely manner with the incremental steps it took to attain the goal I wanted. Your man doesn't seem to be serious enough about what he's talking about to do anything. Yet. He may indeed get there but it seems as though if he does it's not going to be anything immediate - it really doesn't seem to be valuable enough to him yet to take any action. Seems like the two of you have different time tables. If it were indeed valuable to him to go for a change, he'd not be choosing this upcoming move. It seems like a step up with him having more space and maybe a better living environment, but it's actually just a continuation of what he's been doing, and he seems to be more than happy with it. There isn't any real progression happening here, he's telling you loud and clear that he's perfectly happy with continuing his present life, or he wouldn't elect to spend a large chunk of his upcoming time doing exactly what he's been doing.

Here's another thing. You don't want to be the mechanism for change in someone's life. If he does it for YOU, that might come back to bite you in the ass. He needs to want things for himself and not be doing it to keep you. Then no one wins. He may resent you in the future for being a catalyst into something he was never really invested in. You will find out later that it wasn't a true desire on his part to walk a path that was compatible with yours. At that point you may lose respect for him as his personality/drive/ambition wasn't what you thought it was, and that's not fair to him or to you.

Basically I think there are many relationship matches that will fit a person well, what is trickier in my mind, is finding the person that is at the same point in life with similar goals. I'm thinking the two of you seem to be at odds on this point. He seems happy with the status quo, while you have definite views on a progression. Neither of you is wrong, but it doesn't seem to be a case where things are flowing together. Shared goals are pretty important I think, to the health of a relationship and one of the fundamental building blocks of such.

(in reply to kalikshama)

Post #: 60

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