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No-one is mentioning it because since Trayvon Martin was completely innocent of any wrongdoing, it is irrelevant. Also, see my response below...

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BUT... Isn't everyone saying that Zimmerman was NOT acting in the capacity of the Neighborhood Watch, since he was supposedly going to the store on a personal errand.

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Can't have it both ways. Either he was Neighborhood watch AND VIOLATING THE RULES BY BEING ARMED, or he wasn't. Pick one and stick with it, please.

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A witness who hasn't recanted her testimony claims that Zimmerman approached Martin. Which isn't what you said there...

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If only Zimmerman DNA is on the gun and holster, his claim and those of others that Martin attempted to take the gun seem to be far fetched.

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ORIGINAL: vincentML
As for Zimmer's causing the entire incident, I wonder why no one in these discussions ever acknowledges that the community suffered several break-ins by young black males, giving Zimmer cause as neighborhood watch to take the action he did: calling the police and seeking after the activities of Martin. Profiling? Yes. But, in this instance perhaps justifable.

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that one of the many tales that Zimmie had told was that Martin had his hand on the gun which is what caused Zimmie to fear for his life, and it was not the black face and the hood and the paranoia that caused him to shoot the 16 year old.

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Beating the dogshit out of this guy like that and didnt take that gun off him, and allowed Zimmerman whilst having his head smashed like a pumpkin and his nose shattered like windshield glass from a golf club, let Zimmerman reach down there for his gun, bring it up and shoot him, he was that intent on being on top of him, did Zimmy kinda have to pat his knee to let him at the gun or was it in his back that he reached for it, and Martin not notice that as he is raining these sledgehammer blows down on him?

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I think that in other threads other people as well as myself have said more than once that Zimmerman was right to call in what he considered suspicious activity to the police. But that is where his involvement should have ended. His conversation with the police clearly indicates that he did not want another of "these assholes" to get away, and his actions after calling the police escalated matters to the point that the confrontation ensued and ended in Martin's death.

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ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Does it matter? Given that Trayvon Martin had reasonable fear for his life the moment Zimmerman approached and made a furtive moment as if towards a weapon ( which he was carrying at the time, and which he claims was a movement towards his cellphone ).

At that moment, when Zimmerman approached and reached for a potential weapon, Trayvon Martin had every legal right to defend himself, however futile and ineffective that defense turned out to be against his attacker.

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ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Does it matter? Given that Trayvon Martin had reasonable fear for his life the moment Zimmerman approached and made a furtive moment as if towards a weapon ( which he was carrying at the time, and which he claims was a movement towards his cellphone ).

At that moment, when Zimmerman approached and reached for a potential weapon, Trayvon Martin had every legal right to defend himself, however futile and ineffective that defense turned out to be against his attacker.

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ORIGINAL: vincentML

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ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Does it matter? Given that Trayvon Martin had reasonable fear for his life the moment Zimmerman approached and made a furtive moment as if towards a weapon ( which he was carrying at the time, and which he claims was a movement towards his cellphone ).

At that moment, when Zimmerman approached and reached for a potential weapon, Trayvon Martin had every legal right to defend himself, however futile and ineffective that defense turned out to be against his attacker.

Okay, so you concede Martin attacked Zimmerman first. Glad we have that sorted.

The furtive movement bullshit is the same one that police use to justify gunning down innocent black men and mental patients in urban centers.

The four white officers involved, all veterans with at least five years on the force, were in the area looking for a rape suspect. An attorney for the officers said they believed Diallo had a gun, though police found only a beeper and his wallet at the scene.

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ORIGINAL: vincentML
You make some good points. Maybe his involvement shoulda ended. He claims he was seeking an address is why he was walking down the street when Martin attacked him. Sounds pretty lame, but reality can be lame at moments. He did not want another of "these assholes" to get away confirms the impact of past community problems. We shall see if his actions after he called the police are more determinative then his fear while he was lying on his back. That may be the nexus of the issue.

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The only plausible reason is that he was going to continue looking for Martin and didn't know where he would be when the police got there. This, AFTER the police admonished him about not following Martin.

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This all plainly indicates Zimmerman's vengful attitude and actions.

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The minor wounds are considerably more consistant with someone arching their neck backwards while on concrete, trying to throw off someone that is sitting astride them.

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Now, it seems to be a fairly generally accepted fact that Martin was sitting astride Zimmerman. Zimmerman claims that he was being beat so severly that he feared for his life. For Martin to even come close to having enough leverege to cause that kind of harm, whether through bashing, pummeling, or smothering, he had to be sitting high enough on Zimmerman's body that his knee and/or calf would have been hiding the weapon at Zimmerman's waistband. Had he been sitting far enough down Zimmerman's body so that the weapon was exposed he could not have been getting enough leverage to cause any kind of serious harm.

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As you said, we'll see what comes out in court. But from what I have seen so far, if he walks away it will be a very gross miscarriage of justice, and hopefully it will prompt the states with "stand your ground" laws to tweak them so that people can't harass someone, then shoot them and claim self-defense when it doesn't turn out the way they expect.

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You *are* aware that the Diallo killers were all found NOT GUILTY? Therefore, Trayvon Martin wouldn't be guilty of anything, would he, for doing the EXACT SAME THING.

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So, since Trayvon Martin is innocent of any wrongdoing in the incident, George Zimmerman is wholly responsible.

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The presumption that Martin thought Zimmerman was going for a gun when it was only a cell phone does not, even if correct, in any way negate Zimmermans right to defend himself. He could not be responsible for what Martin thought.

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ORIGINAL: igor2003


I think that in other threads other people as well as myself have said more than once that Zimmerman was right to call in what he considered suspicious activity to the police. But that is where his involvement should have ended.