RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case

Join Our Community

Collarchat.com

Home Login Search

RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case

Page: << < prev 3 4 [5] 6 7 next > >>

Login

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 9/24/2012 7:14:55 AM

Posts: 3319
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Orange County, California
Status: offline

With the fact now that none of Martin DNA was found on gun and holster, it makes it more believeable that Zimmerman had the gun already in his hands before he ever made contact with Martin. As I have said before all of the injuries Zimmerman claims to have were minor, it is hard to believe he was being hit at all rather, more self inflected, consider further Zimmerman history of fabricating stories and telling lies, and violence, it makes it hard to believe anything he says.

(in reply to vincentML)

RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 9/24/2012 11:31:37 AM

Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline

quote:

With the fact now that none of Martin DNA was found on gun and holster, it makes it more believeable that Zimmerman had the gun already in his hands before he ever made contact with Martin.

Your direct line from A to B, from no Martin DNA to Zim had the gun already in his hand, is a fantastical leap totally devoid of even the rudiments of logic.

< Message edited by vincentML -- 9/24/2012 11:32:14 AM >

(in reply to Nosathro)

RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 9/24/2012 11:43:09 AM

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

Logic doesn't really have to enter into it, it places it in the realm of introducing another reasonable doubt.

Just saying.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to vincentML)

RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 9/24/2012 1:42:53 PM

Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Logic doesn't really have to enter into it, it places it in the realm of introducing another reasonable doubt.

Just saying.

Reasonable would be that Martin reached for the gun but was unable to grab it. Beyond that the rest is fantastical. Like maybe Zim got his injuries when he fell off his horse.

(in reply to mnottertail)

RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 9/24/2012 1:51:18 PM

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

That's what you are saying but that is not the definition of reasonable doubt.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to vincentML)

RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 9/24/2012 2:07:04 PM

Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

That's what you are saying but that is not the definition of reasonable doubt.

Well, maybe I misunderstand reasonable doubt. I thought reasonable doubt was an argument in favor of the Defendent. Can you explain to me how the unfounded speculation that Zim already had his gun out when he confronted Martin is an argument for the Defense?

If the State wishes to raise that as part of their case don't you think they would need to prove it beyond a shadow of reasonable doubt?

(in reply to mnottertail)

RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 9/24/2012 2:14:57 PM

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

no, against the defendant.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to vincentML)

RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 9/24/2012 2:29:56 PM

Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

no, against the defendant.

Generally the prosecution bears the burden of proof and is required to prove their version of events to this standard. This means that the proposition being presented by the prosecution must be proven to the extent that there could be no "reasonable doubt" in the mind of a "reasonable person" that the defendant is guilty.

(in reply to mnottertail)

RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 9/24/2012 3:06:27 PM

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

That is correct.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to vincentML)

RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 9/24/2012 3:53:07 PM

Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

That is correct.

Ah, good.

(in reply to mnottertail)

RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 9/24/2012 5:52:19 PM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

That is correct.

Ah, good.

The claim that the point here is that blacks were lynched a some point in our history is absurd. Not unlike those who justified anti semetism because Jews ran the crusifixtion. A though true has no bering on B.

(in reply to vincentML)

RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 9/24/2012 7:34:48 PM

Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline

quote:

The claim that the point here is that blacks were lynched a some point in our history is absurd. Not unlike those who justified anti semetism because Jews ran the crusifixtion. A though true has no bering on B.

Whoa, big dog. Not sure what your point is but you may have misread what I said. Have a look at my post #70 and then tell me what your complaint is. I'm sure we can sort it.

(in reply to BamaD)

RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 9/24/2012 8:34:58 PM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

The claim that the point here is that blacks were lynched a some point in our history is absurd. Not unlike those who justified anti semetism because Jews ran the crusifixtion. A though true has no bering on B.

Whoa, big dog. Not sure what your point is but you may have misread what I said. Have a look at my post #70 and then tell me what your complaint is. I'm sure we can sort it.

We have nothing to sort out, the post was not intented to be a reply to you but the system labled it that way. Farglebargle had stated in effect that the point of this case was that blacks had been lynched so Zimmerman was guilty. This is what I was responding to, I have noproblem with you. Sorry about the mixup.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 9/24/2012 9:21:57 PM >

(in reply to vincentML)

RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 9/25/2012 2:36:13 AM

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

no, against the defendant.

Generally the prosecution bears the burden of proof and is required to prove their version of events to this standard. This means that the proposition being presented by the prosecution must be proven to the extent that there could be no "reasonable doubt" in the mind of a "reasonable person" that the defendant is guilty.

The evidence shows, beyond a reasonable doubt that he did not act in self-defense.

If Zimmerman didn't cause the entire incident, maybe things would be different.

If Zimmerman had some credibility, and all of his claims weren't discarded as lies, maybe things would be different.

If the witnesses who supposedly support some of Zimmerman's conflicting claims didn't change their stories, maybe things would be different.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to vincentML)

RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 9/25/2012 8:19:52 AM

Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

The claim that the point here is that blacks were lynched a some point in our history is absurd. Not unlike those who justified anti semetism because Jews ran the crusifixtion. A though true has no bering on B.

Whoa, big dog. Not sure what your point is but you may have misread what I said. Have a look at my post #70 and then tell me what your complaint is. I'm sure we can sort it.

We have nothing to sort out, the post was not intented to be a reply to you but the system labled it that way. Farglebargle had stated in effect that the point of this case was that blacks had been lynched so Zimmerman was guilty. This is what I was responding to, I have noproblem with you. Sorry about the mixup.

Thank you. May I suggest you employ the FR designation at the beginning, which is a signal you are not responding to the person whose name appears in the "in reply to"

(in reply to BamaD)

RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 9/25/2012 8:56:32 AM

Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline

quote:

The evidence shows, beyond a reasonable doubt that he did not act in self-defense.

If Zimmerman didn't cause the entire incident, maybe things would be different.

Reasonable doubt is a decision made by a jury after defense counsel has made his case and after the judge has charged the jury with regards to the law; it is not a decision that bears much value on a message board. It is only your opinion. You may judge yourself as to the degree of your reasonableness as I don't know you, except that you have been steadfastly passionate about this story from day one.

As for Zimmer's causing the entire incident, I wonder why no one in these discussions ever acknowledges that the community suffered several break-ins by young black males, giving Zimmer cause as neighborhood watch to take the action he did: calling the police and seeking after the activities of Martin. Profiling? Yes. But, in this instance perhaps justifable.

(in reply to farglebargle)

RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 9/25/2012 9:11:50 AM

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

quote:

As for Zimmer's causing the entire incident, I wonder why no one in these discussions ever acknowledges that the community suffered several break-ins by young black males, giving Zimmer cause as neighborhood watch to take the action he did: calling the police and seeking after the activities of Martin. Profiling? Yes. But, in this instance perhaps justifable.

Uh,. many of the discussions did vince, and this is disingenous. the action he did? calling the police, seeking after the activities of Martin?

nobody has avoided that or said he shouldn't have, but to kill the guy is a little outside the purview of many of your neigborhood watch wannabe cops, is the praxis of the issue here.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to vincentML)

RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 9/25/2012 10:07:20 AM

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
As for Zimmer's causing the entire incident, I wonder why no one in these discussions ever acknowledges that the community suffered several break-ins by young black males

No-one is mentioning it because since Trayvon Martin was completely innocent of any wrongdoing, it is irrelevant. Also, see my response below...

quote:

, giving Zimmer cause as neighborhood watch to take the action he did:

BUT... Isn't everyone saying that Zimmerman was NOT acting in the capacity of the Neighborhood Watch, since he was supposedly going to the store on a personal errand.

Can't have it both ways. Either he was Neighborhood watch AND VIOLATING THE RULES BY BEING ARMED, or he wasn't. Pick one and stick with it, please.

quote:

calling the police and seeking after the activities of Martin. Profiling? Yes. But, in this instance perhaps justifable.

A witness who hasn't recanted her testimony claims that Zimmerman approached Martin. Which isn't what you said there...

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to vincentML)

RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 9/25/2012 10:23:01 AM

Posts: 3319
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Orange County, California
Status: offline

If only Zimmerman DNA is on the gun and holster, his claim and those of others that Martin attempted to take the gun seem to be far fetched. So the question only Zimmerman held the weapon. In Zimmerman own account he claims he attempted to get his cell phone when first confronting Martin, was it the cell phone or the gun. Zimmerman a great teller of fairy tales...

(in reply to vincentML)

RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 9/25/2012 10:47:09 AM

Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

quote:

As for Zimmer's causing the entire incident, I wonder why no one in these discussions ever acknowledges that the community suffered several break-ins by young black males, giving Zimmer cause as neighborhood watch to take the action he did: calling the police and seeking after the activities of Martin. Profiling? Yes. But, in this instance perhaps justifable.

Uh,. many of the discussions did vince, and this is disingenous. the action he did? calling the police, seeking after the activities of Martin?

nobody has avoided that or said he shouldn't have, but to kill the guy is a little outside the purview of many of your neigborhood watch wannabe cops, is the praxis of the issue here.

I am happy to be corrected on the first, Ron. I listed the Reuters article in the long thread and couldn't get any response to it. Glad that changed while i was away walking on the moon.

Definately agree that killing is not something with which the neighborhood watch is tasked. That is not the issue for a Florida court; it is whether he thought he was in serious danger. Folks here are suggesting on no evidence that he had his gun drawn before the altercation. I don't see that based on the absence of Martin's DNA.

(in reply to mnottertail)

Page: << < prev 3 4 [5] 6 7 next > >>

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case

Page: << < prev 3 4 [5] 6 7 next > >>

Jump to:

New Messages	No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages	Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages	Locked w/o New Messages

Post New Thread

Reply to Message

Post New Poll

Submit Vote

Delete My Own Post

Delete My Own Thread

Rate Posts

Collarchat.com © 2024

Terms of Service

0.125