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Iran VS Israel - 10/15/2012 5:41:58 PM

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I was wondering, eventually hell will brake lose between those counries, but what are you thinking about it?

Isreal says that Iran is building/trying to build nuclear weapons, but no prove has found yet.
Iran refused some visits of the IAEA, Israel and the US see it as a prove that Iran has something to hide. But Isreal has never allowed IAEA inspections and even the US has refused more IAEA visits than Iran has...

But when it would come to a war, wich side would you be on? wich side would win?

Some facts wich would help:

128 countries have decided to support Iran.
30 counries have decided to support Israel.
Iran's main allies (in this matter) are Russia, China, North-Korea and India.
Isreal's main allies (in this matter) are the US and the UK.
counries that have a chance of going to war for this matter would be:
-Israel
-US
-UK
-France
-Germany
-The Netherlands
-Australia

-Iran
-Syria
-Iraq
-Turkey
-Pakistan
-Afghanistan
-Oman
-Egypt
-Sudan
-China
-Russia
-Indonesia
-North-Korea
-Malaysia
-Venezuela
-Cuba
-Nicaragua
Iran is also supported by the Hamas and Hezbollah.
Groups like Al-Qaeda, Al-Shabaab, Taliban, Jihad ect. could also join the war on Iran's side.

I know this issue can be viewed in many ways so please leave a comment and i will answer as quickly as possible;)

RE: Iran VS Israel - 10/15/2012 5:50:00 PM

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While there is a possibility that Australia might join in military moves led by some Western powers against Iran, there has been absolutely no public discussion of such a eventuality here to date - the possibility is not on the Australian political radar or even horizon. Most Aussies would see it as a war on Israel's behalf, and not many Aussies would lift a finger to help that belligerent State - we would much rather see it make peace with its neighbours for a change.

I can't think that any politician would be stupid enough to float this possibility. I imagine it would mean instant political death. The public here, thoroughly repulsed by the Iran and Afghanistan interventions, would reject such a proposal overwhelmingly.

But they have sent Australian troops to fight in wars that the Australian people overwhelmingly opposed before - the last one was Iraq. So I am unable to discount the possibility entirely.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 10/15/2012 5:53:57 PM >

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RE: Iran VS Israel - 10/15/2012 5:55:44 PM

kdsub

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quote:

Iran's main allies (in this matter) are Russia, China, North-Korea and India

I do not believe if war were to break out the above countries would directly support Iran...they would certainly not interfere with their militaries. They may supply arms in a drawn-out war but that type of war is not likely to happen in the region. At least in my opinion the US is still too strong as a deterrent.

Butch

ps... You seem to have left out the biggest local opponent to Iran.... the Saudi's

< Message edited by kdsub -- 10/15/2012 5:59:40 PM >

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RE: Iran VS Israel - 10/15/2012 6:00:14 PM

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I don't know if they would join, but as i look on the facts it would not be inpossible.
Australia can't afford it to lose the US as an allie, especially after the threat of an invasion of China.
The US can't handle Iran on their own with Israel, and within the EU most countries don't support a war against Iran.
But on the other side, if Australia joined the war the chance of an invasion by China would increse quickly, and the fact that Australia would be surrounded by enemie's would say that they stay neutral.

So yes it is very discussable for Australia but even then i would give them a chance of joining the war against Iran.

(in reply to tweakabelle)

RE: Iran VS Israel - 10/15/2012 6:05:07 PM

kdsub

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quote:

The US can't handle Iran on their own with Israel

You really believe this?

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(in reply to ermood)

RE: Iran VS Israel - 10/15/2012 6:13:30 PM

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India would not interfere, but yet its one of the main allies in this matter.
Iran and North-Korea already signed a threaty that's created to protect eachother in times of war.
Iran is Russia's most vital allie when it comes to geopolitics, Russia will never give up on that.
China is the new rising superpower and its main allies are supporting Iran.
Iran is the no.3 counrie based on oil reserves, Saudi Arabia and Iraq are 1 and 2... the US already allied with Saudi Arabia, then they tried it with Iraq but it failed... Russia and China will not give the US the oppertunity of gaining too much influence in the oilreserves left on earth.
You can already see it in Syria today, 5 years ago the US would just invade.... but Russia has gained lots of its power back and together with the greatest economic power today (China) the US can't invade.... the time of the US is over together with the rest of the western world;)

No i did not forget Saudi Arabia, yes they hate Iran... but they hate Isreal to... and for that matter i haven't included them.
I don't think they will do much if a war would brake out between Iran and Israel.

(in reply to kdsub)

RE: Iran VS Israel - 10/15/2012 6:20:09 PM

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Sorry for the confusion, i meant that they couldn't handle themselfs against Iran with its allies;)

(in reply to kdsub)

RE: Iran VS Israel - 10/15/2012 7:41:05 PM

kdsub

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North Korea may be a player but not directly…they do not have the capability to interfere militarily away from their shores but… they could decide to invade South Korea and that could severely split our support of Israel.

I do not believe China will buck the US and for that matter Russia either. They will surely raise holy hell in the UN but secretly be glad that the main supplier and supporter of terror in the world will be getting its clock cleaned. Remember both China and Russia are having problems with Muslim extremists as well and know at least some support is coming from Iran.

Of course all opinion and I hope we do not have to find out.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to ermood)

RE: Iran VS Israel - 10/15/2012 8:56:37 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ermood

I don't know if they would join, but as i look on the facts it would not be inpossible.
Australia can't afford it to lose the US as an allie, especially after the threat of an invasion of China.
The US can't handle Iran on their own with Israel, and within the EU most countries don't support a war against Iran.
But on the other side, if Australia joined the war the chance of an invasion by China would increse quickly, and the fact that Australia would be surrounded by enemie's would say that they stay neutral.

So yes it is very discussable for Australia but even then i would give them a chance of joining the war against Iran.

I can't fault your logic here. But I do see it as a remote possibility at this point.

The likelihood is that any attack on Iran will be primarily an aerial one, with possible naval support. The use of troops on the ground doesn't seem to be under consideration by either Israel or the US. Also, the result of the Presidential election in the US will have a direct bearing as I feel Obama is far less likely to be swayed by Netanyahu's war mongering than Romney.

We should keep in mind that the whole question of Iranian nukes is a bit of a red herring - just about everyone except Netanyahu agrees that the Iranians are NOT in the process of building nukes. Of course, Netanyahu wants to keep world attention focused on anywhere except Israel's theft and colonisation of the West Bank. A military strike could generate incalculable consequences and cannot guarantee a stop to Iran's nuclear program. My personal feeling is that it won't happen.

For Netanyahu it is the perfect scare tactic - it keeps populations in fear and that's precisely where you want them to be if you are Netanyahu. So this card is simply to good to play. Like any scare tactic, once it's played it has lost its potency forever.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 10/15/2012 8:57:12 PM >

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RE: Iran VS Israel - 10/15/2012 10:24:59 PM

YN

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Latin America is opposed to any war with Iran, according to recent public opinion polls. Brazil and Mexico especially. Even Argentina and Chile are evenly divided as to if there should even be sanctions, and those to are the ones most supportive of Israel.

If the EU and the Anglo-Americans wish to initiate WW3, this having their Israeli proteges engage in military adventurism in Iran is a good way to proceed.

But I see Netanyahu must call an early election due to lack of support, apparently greater than 70% of Isrealis do not favor such a rash move.

(in reply to tweakabelle)

RE: Iran VS Israel - 10/16/2012 6:08:05 AM

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North Korea has more than 9 million soldiers, they have the capability to ship half a million soldiers.... so yes i'm sure they'll help Iran directly.
Russia is going to interfere for sure, it would be the same as for example China invading Mexico... its not even questionable if the US would interfere there.... and so it will be with Russia and Iran.
China will take its chance to become the next superpower, the US already is losing lots of its power, and with Russia involved China won't leave this open chance.

(in reply to kdsub)

RE: Iran VS Israel - 10/16/2012 6:16:54 AM

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If a war would brake down it would be with troops on the ground, both the US and Israel don't have the capability to reach and distroy all of Iran's nuclear facility's with only airplanes and missiles.
But the war won't be fought on Iran's ground, it would be fought in Syria and Iraq, the outcome of that would decide if it would move on to Iran or to Israel.
True, the waiting is now for the US elections and i hope Obama will win this one, cause Romney has no clue about the things where he's talking about.
Yes, the western world always need a countrie that they can blame for stuff that they haven't done, and its always to lead away the attention to their own crimes.
I really don't know if it would happen, if Romney would win the elections... Israel wouldn't have a choice anymore, they would have to attack, wich would meant the end of Israel as it is today.

< Message edited by ermood -- 10/16/2012 6:23:36 AM >

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RE: Iran VS Israel - 10/16/2012 6:21:21 AM

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Even better, almost every counrie in south and mid-america is supporting Iran.
The EU is against a war, and the other european countries are neutral or they are supporting Iran.

Nobody wants this war to happen, even the Israelis know what concequenses such war would have.
For example, China has spoken lots of times about supporting Iran even when it would leed to WW3.

(in reply to YN)

RE: Iran VS Israel - 10/16/2012 6:42:12 AM

YN

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ermood

Even better, almost every counrie in south and mid-america is supporting Iran.

Not so much supporting Iran as opposed to Anglo-American and European aggression directed against Iran.

And the opinions of the EU are low too. Germany, France and the UK are seen as saber wavers in this case. There was a cartoon today showing a group of assorted Europeans beating an Iranian with their peace medals.

< Message edited by YN -- 10/16/2012 7:07:35 AM >

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RE: Iran VS Israel - 10/16/2012 7:00:29 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ermood

North Korea has more than 9 million soldiers, they have the capability to ship half a million soldiers.... so yes i'm sure they'll help Iran directly.
Russia is going to interfere for sure, it would be the same as for example China invading Mexico... its not even questionable if the US would interfere there.... and so it will be with Russia and Iran.
China will take its chance to become the next superpower, the US already is losing lots of its power, and with Russia involved China won't leave this open chance.

N Korea has, on paper, the capability of shipping 500K soldiers. How many of them do you think would arrive alive at their destination?

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RE: Iran VS Israel - 10/16/2012 7:36:17 AM

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If not attacked they all arrive, don't underestemate the power of North-Korea.

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RE: Iran VS Israel - 10/16/2012 7:44:14 AM

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Yes, most of them wouldn't go to war for Iran...

The problem in the EU is that everyone has an other opinion about it, for example: the UK wants a war with Iran (the people there really don't), France doesn't want a war but if a war would come they would join, Germany had an very good relationship with Iran until the sanctions came so i don't know if Germany would join... but i guess that it leads the attention a bit away from the crisis...

Do you have a link to the cartoon? I haven't seen such thing yet here...

(in reply to YN)

RE: Iran VS Israel - 10/16/2012 7:47:00 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ermood

If not attacked they all arrive, don't underestemate the power of North-Korea.

North Korea cannot overfly any nation between itself and Iran if shipping combat troops and their air lift capacity is pretty small. That leaves ships and they cannot defend those ships and the US and allies will prevent them arriving in Iran.

The aid N. Korea could give is attacking Soeul, which would be suicide for the regime as no one would intervene to stop the US and S. Korea from stomping the N. Koreans for destroying Soeul.

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RE: Iran VS Israel - 10/16/2012 7:47:38 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ermood

If not attacked they all arrive, don't underestemate the power of North-Korea.

I'm not. You said the key thing. "if not attacked". They don't have the shipping tonnage, resources and defensive naval and aerial weaponry to make the trip to the mideast without being anihillated.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to ermood)

RE: Iran VS Israel - 10/16/2012 7:52:05 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
You seem to have left out the biggest local opponent to Iran.... the Saudi's

The ones who went running to your country when Kuwait was invaded, rather than taking any action against Iraq themselves, you mean?
Yeah, I'm sure they're a terrifying military presence...

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