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RE: Is child rearing an act of masochism? - 12/13/2012 8:24:11 PM

marie2

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I have one daughter. She's an adult now and it's been a hell of a challenge raising her as a single parent. At times I thought it was going to kill me, in fact I still do. She is such a good-hearted, sensitive, caring person, but she lives life on her own terms, she doesn't conform to anything, which means she has gotten into a lot of trouble over the years. I've had to bail her ass out of so many fixes it's not even funny. Yet she is a good student (college) and has goals and direction and a good moral core.

If I had it to do all over again, knowing what I know now, I probably would not have had a child; there's so much pain in the world and I brought someone into that.

But I have her now and I can't imagine my world without her in it....I love her company, we get each other, are on the same wavelength, have the same fucked up sense of humor, and we are very connected to one another.

I don't look forward to her moving out. I love the years we've had together....She's not in my way, nor does she feel like a burden to me. I know she'll be on her own someday and it's going to be really hard for me when she leaves the nest.

I would describe my experience in child rearing as bittersweet.

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RE: Is child rearing an act of masochism? - 12/14/2012 12:00:47 AM

NuevaVida

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To Pam and LaT: No apologies necessary; nothing you said hurt my feelings. I was really just glad to see LaT's follow up post, clarifying some things. It helped.

The things that DO hurt, or become frustrating, or that I haven't figured out how to not be resentful over, are moms who say things like, "Well you wouldn't understand - you're not a mom" - while that is true and they are right, it's just a stab in the gut to me. Or "You don't know what tired is, since you don't have kids" (because having kids must be the ONLY thing that can exhaust a person for an extended period of time). Or, "Hey, we need you to stay late at work tonight because so-n-so had to leave due to childcare issues." (because a non-parent's personal life must not have as much value, that we can always be expected to stay late so the parents can get home).

But yes, I do get that motherhood is fucking hard, and not very rewarding, and that it needs to be ok for moms to admit it. Maybe this just isn't the thread for non-moms lol. You guys need a safe place to say what you need to say. Maybe us non-moms should start our own thread about life outside the "motherhood club"

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RE: Is child rearing an act of masochism? - 12/14/2012 12:11:45 AM

FelineFae

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

The things that DO hurt, or become frustrating, or that I haven't figured out how to not be resentful over, are moms who say things like, "Well you wouldn't understand - you're not a mom" while that is true and they are right, it's just a stab in the gut to me. Or "You don't know what tired is, since you don't have kids" (because having kids must be the ONLY thing that can exhaust a person for an extended period of time). Or, "Hey, we need you to stay late at work tonight because so-n-so had to leave due to childcare issues." (because a non-parent's personal life must not have as much value, that we can always be expected to stay late so the parents can get home).

But yes, I do get that motherhood is fucking hard, and not very rewarding, and that it needs to be ok for moms to admit it. Maybe this just isn't the thread for non-moms lol. You guys need a safe place to say what you need to say. Maybe us non-moms should start our own thread about life outside the "motherhood club"

i associate these attitudes with something i call "mommy martyrdom". This, imho, is a condition where a parent seems to gain pleasure from the sympathedtic attention they receive when they express the frustrations of child rearing.

< Message edited by FelineFae -- 12/14/2012 12:17:51 AM >

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RE: Is child rearing an act of masochism? - 12/14/2012 12:16:34 AM

TizzyTara

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YES

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RE: Is child rearing an act of masochism? - 12/14/2012 12:19:56 AM

NuevaVida

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FelineFae

quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

The things that DO hurt, or become frustrating, or that I haven't figured out how to not be resentful over, are moms who say things like, "Well you wouldn't understand - you're not a mom" while that is true and they are right, it's just a stab in the gut to me. Or "You don't know what tired is, since you don't have kids" (because having kids must be the ONLY thing that can exhaust a person for an extended period of time). Or, "Hey, we need you to stay late at work tonight because so-n-so had to leave due to childcare issues." (because a non-parent's personal life must not have as much value, that we can always be expected to stay late so the parents can get home).

But yes, I do get that motherhood is fucking hard, and not very rewarding, and that it needs to be ok for moms to admit it. Maybe this just isn't the thread for non-moms lol. You guys need a safe place to say what you need to say. Maybe us non-moms should start our own thread about life outside the "motherhood club"

i associate these attitudes with something i call "mommy martyrdom". This, imho, is a condition where a parent seems to gain pleasure from the sympathedtic attention they receive when the express the frustrations of child rearing.

Which I think is fine, if they want to talk to other moms about it. But saying it to a non-mom isn't really going to get them that sympathy. If a non-mom responds sympathetically, it's probably feigned, to be polite. I usually just answer with a gentle smile and a "huh" and in my head I'm coming to some sort of judgmental conclusion.

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RE: Is child rearing an act of masochism? - 12/14/2012 12:30:13 AM

FelineFae

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You're right.
A nonparent can relate that "family matters" can be very difficult, but cannot empathize with the parent-to-child relationship.
When a parent says something to a non-parent that wishes for children, it's down right cruel. We fake a polite socially acceptable responce for their situation, while we hold our tongues about what we're really thinking.
To me, "mommy martyrdom" means taking an unhealthy pleasure in the attention i mentioned above. i should have wrote in "unhealthy" before.

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RE: Is child rearing an act of masochism? - 12/14/2012 12:37:38 AM

absolutchocolat

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Yeah, I know a lot of mommy-martyr types. I've said this on at least one other thread, but I decided a long time ago, mostly due to my own rough childhood, that I didn't want to be a mother.

Since I was surrounded by children from a young age, I never thought child-rearing was some magical thing that I needed to experience. I was always babysitting somebody's screaming kids, always cleaning up toys, always cooking meals for others. It just seemed like more work to me. My twin sister and I were latch-key kids -- we had to fend for ourselves most of the time while my parents were off doing their own thing. I decided that I didn't want to have kids if I couldn't (or wouldn't) devote my full-attention to their needs. I don't see that changing anytime soon.

I grew up in a place where my female friends who graduate high school either a) have kids (sometimes married, but not always the case) and start a family right after, or b) go to college. I chose the latter. Now, more than 3/4 of the women I went to high school with have children, and I get to see a lot of them struggle with custody battles, money problems, deferring career goals, etc. I don't envy all of that, but I do have moments when I wonder what I'd be like as a mom.

< Message edited by absolutchocolat -- 12/14/2012 12:39:07 AM >

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RE: Is child rearing an act of masochism? - 12/14/2012 1:04:54 AM

FelineFae

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FelineFae

When a parent says something// [ about how hard it is to be a parent ] //to a non-parent that wishes for children, it's down right cruel. We fake a polite socially acceptable responce for their situation, while we hold our tongues about what we're really thinking.

Sorry, i am having trouble getting my complete thoughts through. i'm sitting here facepalming myself and thinking, " How on earth did i forget to type that part ? " .

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RE: Is child rearing an act of masochism? - 12/14/2012 1:50:29 AM

littlewonder

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When I was working and I was having mommy/child problems and I had to leave quickly, I would always ask my coworker if she had any plans after work first such as a doctor's appointment, if she was feeling ok since she had some health issues once in awhile, having to do something for her sister, etc....I never made it seem like I was the only person with such problems. I realized that just because I'm a single mother didn't mean that non mommies didn't have lives either. I always felt bad for her when I had to leave or I couldn't come in because of her. I knew she would have to take on the entire load of customers by herself. So, I can understand your frustrations NV. I think in those instances your boss or coworker should have checked with you first to make sure you did not have important plans.

Thankfully I had a coworker though who knew the problems at home I was having and would always tell me to just go and ask me if I needed anything. She was a very nice lady to work with. Now my boss though....yeah, she's why I left. lol

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RE: Is child rearing an act of masochism? - 12/14/2012 8:25:14 AM

tj444

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FelineFae
A nonparent can relate that "family matters" can be very difficult, but cannot empathize with the parent-to-child relationship.

The same holds true for someone dating a parent or considering dating a parent.. a guy that lives in another city has wanted to meet me for a while, he has teenage kids which are of course, his priority (I understand that).. twice i have cancelled meeting him.. I will have to travel to him, I have to pay for the hotel room when i get there, and in the end, he seems to want to keep me in a small corner of his life.. Even if we start dating, he doesnt want me to stay at his place even when his kids are with his ex & not even going to know about me.. We seem to be deadlocked and I ask myself why I would even bother getting involved with him.. I understand his kids come first but there is a limit to my understandingness..

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RE: Is child rearing an act of masochism? - 12/14/2012 10:08:06 AM

NuevaVida

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Hey lw, that was considerate of you. I've often found myself in a situation where none of my plans were taken into account. My life outside of work is very full/busy. It's not just "important appointments" - it's my overall life. I'm not the type of person who goes straight home after work and sits in front of the TV (not that there's anything wrong with that - it's just not me). I see friends, family, go to classes at the gym, run errands, etc...always on the go. My *life* is important to me and after awhile it's not ok to continually put it on hold because working parents have "more important" things to do. I was once in a meeting where we were told those of us without families would have to work the next several weekends. Um, what??

There's kind of a stigma out there, that if you're not raising a kid, whatever is going on in your life is less important. For a year at a past job, the moms got flexible hours and could leave at 3:00 every day so they could go to soccer games, pick kids up from school, etc., and I was stuck working the later hours because someone had to be there, and the moms couldn't.

Obviously, if I were a mom I would probably feel differently about these things, but after awhile, it does get a little old and tiresome. So really, both "sides" of the equation have different gripes I guess!

And tj444, the Mister has one teen daughter. If I had to do it over again, I would not go out with a man with kids. He does his best to juggle and prioritize, but ultimately the girl comes first. But he had me meet her after a few months, I never stayed at a hotel, and I stayed there when she wasn't there, often. I would not have agreed to your arrangement at all.

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RE: Is child rearing an act of masochism? - 12/14/2012 10:16:56 AM

NuevaVida

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Just wanted to add here, I realize I may have posted a lot of griping in this thread and I didn't mean to. Maybe I just wanted to shed some light on "the other side." Truth be told, I see moms now and think there's no way I'd want to do that. I'm just too old now lol.

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RE: Is child rearing an act of masochism? - 12/14/2012 10:22:56 AM

absolutchocolat

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

Just wanted to add here, I realize I may have posted a lot of griping in this thread and I didn't mean to. Maybe I just wanted to shed some light on "the other side." Truth be told, I see moms now and think there's no way I'd want to do that. I'm just too old now lol.

Your perspective is greatly appreciated, NV.

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RE: Is child rearing an act of masochism? - 12/14/2012 10:59:09 AM

tj444

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Its not an arrangement I have agreed to, thats why we are deadlocked & I cancelled twice.. Its put me off.. I might agree to stay one night in a hotel when we first meet (platonically, no sex), but if he wants me to do that again.. meh, i dont think so.. sorta funny tho, he wants to jump into sex fast, just not at his place (which usually means the guy is married or hiding something).. I have never dated a guy with kids before, so its uncharted territory for me.. I think he is being unreasonable (if we are attracted to each other and wanted to date after a first meet).. which, on the balance of probabilities would mean its not likely to work out.. and any future guys with kids will likely get a pass from me.. Too bad, but I dont want to get into something destined to fail..

It does seem to be a problem for single parents, with both part and full time custody.. finding a partner that is willing to take the back seat.. i guess that is an unforseen part of the "suffering" aspect for those parents..

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RE: Is child rearing an act of masochism? - 12/14/2012 11:07:19 AM

NuevaVida

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Thank you, absolutchocolate.

tj: How far does this guy live from you? The Mister lived 2 hours from me at the time, and we met for dinner at an in between stop, so it was a one hour drive for each of us. This was after he worked a full day at his second/weekend job.

And I'm not willing to take a back seat - I'm willing to see his kid as the priority, because kids should be. But I also have to be a priority. Her *needs* come first. When he has put her *whims* first, we've had words over it. Just remember, however you start out sets the tone for the relationship.

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RE: Is child rearing an act of masochism? - 12/14/2012 11:28:39 AM

FelineFae

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Kids can challenge the relationships of adults, as can a demanding job, illness or physical disability, or distance.

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RE: Is child rearing an act of masochism? - 12/14/2012 11:38:52 AM

tj444

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He lives 5 hours each way.. I am ok with being the one travelling, just the cost of a hotel each time would mean many less visits, not seeing each other as much as we could.. and I see it as an unecessary frivolous expense, which would tick me off.. He says its cuz his home is his kids sanctuary.. and sure, it is, when they are there.. but I wouldnt be there when they are..

I told him maybe I will come to meet in January.. and just see if we are attracted and like each other enough to negotiate something that might work.. or if he will change his mind on that.. who knows, maybe he will..

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RE: Is child rearing an act of masochism? - 1/4/2013 2:15:27 AM

ARIES83

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Well I'm posting in here for you Pam just to stop
you from making generalisations.

As far as raising kids, I don't have any, I do
however have 3 kid sisters and we all grew up
without a dad, I helped mum raise all of them, I
remember carrying all of them around as babies,
pushing them in prams, feeding them, changing
nappies

Even now on fathers day I get presents from them,
"brother's day" presents haha.

So how is it like masochism?
My first sister's crying was like nails on a chalkboard,
changing nappies made me want to puke, looking
out for her toddling around and making sure she
didn't go anywhere or do anything dangerous was a
burden.

The second was easier, but now theres two so the
fights begin, so now I'm a policeman, making sure
that one gives back the others toys and all that
annoying stuff that just drives you up the wall.

Then there was the third, I hardly noticed the
crying, had a whole bag full of tricks to keep babies
occupied, Pretty much pick her up and show her
places she couldn't see from the floor was enough
to distract her.
Of course by now the other two are escaping and
I'm having to run around the block trying to find
them, or going after them when they crawl up
under the house and bring them out...

I remember when the oldest one started bringing
back swear words from school, first primary school
"boyfriends"

you better believe they got some
stinkeyes!

But you get better everytime, and then they grow up.

I'm still giving the stinkeye to boys that I catch
looking at them when we go out as a family.

It's just what you do.

And now I'm approaching 30 and no kids of my
own, maybe I'm a little bit kidded out, all I know
is I haven't really got that "gotta have kids" urge,
not to say I wouldn't be over the moon to have a
kid, but I guess I never experienced the financial
burden aspect of having to feed and clothe my
sisters... But I do know one thing for certain!

It's easier once you've gone through it a few times.

I remember when birthday presents were simple,
now I have no idea haha, they go through mobile
phones like they're disposable...
I just get them flowers.

So theres my rather unconventional experiences
child raising type experience, and I think my
view as far as masochism goes is, everything is a
pain to learn but once you got the hang of it...

-Aries

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RE: Is child rearing an act of masochism? - 1/4/2013 2:23:18 AM

metamorfosis

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ARIES83
Well I'm posting in here for you Pam just to stop
you from making generalisations.

I see... Men don't like generalizations.

:Pam

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RE: Is child rearing an act of masochism? - 1/4/2013 2:38:32 AM

ARIES83

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