quote:

ORIGINAL: TwoHeartsBeatOne


If you notice, I did not even defend myself against personal attacks until a few hours ago. I just ignored them and focused on the people who kept the comments on the issue itself.

quote:

ORIGINAL: susie

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

13 pages of people trying to get it into your head that behaving as the head of the family does not make a man or woman automatically a child molester and you willfully closing your eyes and ears to this gives anyone the right to become disgusted and tired of you and your determined ignorance.

The fact that many of the guys who enjoy being a loving paternalistic dominant have healthy children of their own has made no difference to you. The fact that many of the woman who enjoy being treated as a protected and loved daughter have healthy children of their own has made no difference to you. You still insist on maintaining your disgusting belief.

What you ought to be doing instead of blaming every one else is simple. You ought to be getting therapy to deal with your issues so you won't be attracted to criminals in the future. You picked him, he didn't kidnap you and force you to be in a relationship with him. You need to own the fact that you picked him, that you found him attractive and that you didn't think about the qualities he exhibited. But that's hard work and it's a lot easier for you to blame tens of thousands of innocent people instead.

You beat me to it. I have read my way through and all the time I was thinking about the need for therapy. The OP obviously has serious issues related to her previous relationship which is has been shown by her constant reference to it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TwoHeartsBeatOne

Page 9, posts 173 & 175... just short of 100 posts ago... so, I reposted #248. AthenaSurrenders suggests that the re-post won't help newcomers to the thread.

If you notice, I did not even defend myself against personal attacks until a few hours ago. I just ignored them and focused on the people who kept the comments on the issue itself.

The few who lowered themselves to that level... well, they are stuck being them. Not my problem. I prefer to focus on the overwhelming majority who conduct themselves with class and an open mind.

What can I say DF... you are mistaken in your perception that I made conclusions Before the posts listed above.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darkfeather

quote:

ORIGINAL: TwoHeartsBeatOne

Are these the questions you mean? I thought they were rhetorical.

Also, you began to play with the "beating a dead horse" thing, so I thought you were done.

But, okay...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darkfeather

All of them. You need to throw out all these ideas and walk away from this idea that somehow an attraction to a child-like persona somehow equates to the same mentality of a pedophile. I would ask you this, does a person who loves the color orange, automatically likes to eat, oranges?

I don't think so. I'd have to ask more... as I am doing here with this topic.

Does a person who likes to act like a cat, automatically like any and all felines?

I don't think so. I'd have to ask more... as I am doing here with this topic.

You see, you cannot make these correlations without more information

And that is why the dead horse... You are not asking questions here, you have made conclusions and are trying to substantiate them. There is a BIG difference. What if I had said all people who eat Mandarin Oranges are pedophiles. Gave out my suppositions for coming to this conclusion, then asked everyone here if they agreed or disagreed, had any insights, etc. Now of course, the next post would call me insane correct? What could eating a particular orange have to do with being a pedophile, no matter what reasoning I had put into the thought process. But do you see the similarities between "oranges" and Daddy Doms? Where is your information, where is your research on the subject? You simply cannot present an idea to a group of people, and expect them to debate it, unless it has some basis of fact. Why, because others, who know the facts will question what you say if it differs.

This is why you need to just drop the whole idea because you are not simply asking questions on the subject, you are defending your concept. And while that is not a bad thing, you just don't have the facts to support it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TwoHeartsBeatOne

With the addition of the perspectives described in the article in my last post, plus the perspectives of the posters here, I'm going to attempt to "fix" my OP to better reflect my questions here. Having said that, it really would help if the article was read first.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TwoHeartsBeatOne

I’m feeling paralyzed by fear. I don’t even know where to turn for answers. I am hoping that TOS guidelines won’t interfere with a rational and informative discussion of this topic. I simply seek clarity.

My questions pertain to sexual age play between the edge players in DD/lg relationships - NOT about non-sexual age play in the more commonly practiced version of DD/lg relationships. This is soooo taboo, I fear any vanilla searches may come up with some path towards kiddie porn results - not something I want on my computer's history. (nor do I want to see it)

Another concern is that having this conversation in person, one on one, leaves me open to some potentially creepy responses. Plus, even posting this here, I know that there are some who will never forget that I am the one who asked. I don't like the association, but if that's what it takes...

These are my questions:

Question 1

Is a Daddy Dom a pedophile psychologically, but he behaves physically/sexually only with adults?

As is true in the BDSM community and its rainbow of fetishes, there are some fetishes which are considered, "edge play." In terms of DD/lg relationships, there are some who are edge players - which means they act out incest or pedophilia scenarios. These people are not pedophiles or molesters (although as is true of any group, some may be criminals - but that's not the kink). Even within the DD/lg, edge player group, many consider those who actually have fantasies about real minors as sick.

So, even after specifying that the question pertains to sexual age-playing Daddy Doms only, the answer is still, "No, they are not psychologically the same as pedophiles."

I believe people are sexually unique for three reasons:
1) Born that way
2) An early event linked sexuality and (fill in the blank/fetish)
3) Choice.

Question 2

So, if a guy is sexually aroused and attracted to all things youthful and he acts on it, it’s a crime and a horror. But, if that same guy channels those feelings into mutually consensual behavior with another adult, or adults, then I think we’d all want to support that “use” of those feelings, right?

"All things youthful" was my way of saying, "underage." I didn't think we could say that directly here (TOS). So, that was unclear.

The question of whether an edge player (again, as it pertains to DD/lg, sexual play and not to DD's in general), who uses the kink as an outlet for fantasies about real kids, is a good way to deal with the feelings/urges, has been met with a resounding, "NO!" The littles here have said they would run like hell at any hint of this.

I'm still not so sure about that. Is this a matter of my kink may not be your kink? If two people's needs and desires match, and they are consenting adults... where is the harm?

Well, and this is why I am not sure... perhaps the people who match in this very specific and limited respect, only match because one, or both of them, are unhealthy people with unresolved issues?

Question 3

This one has been answered. Again, with a, "No." (and that's allowing for the specifying which type of DD - a sexual age-player, edge player, only and not DD's in general.)
Daddy Doms and pedophiles “groom” the focus of their attention, using praise, gifts and a sense of dependence. But do they share these other qualities as well:

This is a list of known pedophile traits/ red flags...

-a self-image as being younger than they really are?

-inability to maintain peer relationships?

-a need for isolation, control and secrecy?

-shame, self-loathing, but with a charming façade?

- (fill in the blank with your own observations)?

Question 4

To anyone who has seen the film, “The Woodsman,” which shows how a woman accepts a pedophile’s need to express his sexuality in specific ways with her, do you agree that the Daddy Dom relationship is much like this?

Again, the general, DD label has to be revised to specify, "sexual age-player/edge player, type of Daddy Dom." No one seems to have seen the film, so this question can just die its natural death! It would likely be another, "No" response, I suspect.

Question 5

As a submissive who is also a parent, how do you handle both your own emotions, and your responsibility to protect, knowing the Daddy Dom’s preference for youth?

I think enough people said that all Daddy Doms do not have a preference for youth, so that makes the question invalid.

Question 6

As an aging human, how does it feel to be with a guy who is attracted to a look – an illusion – that will become more difficult to create with each passing day? I’m assuming that this feels good, or at least okay, but I wonder how that is achieved.

Again, this question is based on a misconception that all Daddy Doms are attracted to a youthful appearance. Enough posters have been clear that it's not about the looks to make this another irrelevant question.

Question 7

To Daddy Doms & those they partner with & with everyone in our community…

What is being done already to protect innocents from harm? (This is at the core of what frightens me… is there a difference, if so, how can we tell?)

Someone posted that EDUCATION is the way to protection. That answer makes complete sense to me.

I sincerely hope we can skip the defense of the kink… THAT is not the issue, and there is an abundance of that point of view already. Could we focus on this other concern, please?

And that ^^ is where my vocabulary failed me. I called a DD/lg relationship a kink... although that seems to vary in terms of being considered accurate, or not. I also was unable to clarify that I was referring to the DD/lg edge players - those who engage in sexual age play, only, and not asking anyone to define the more mainstream understanding of what DD/lg relationships are. In other words, no need to defend it... that's not what I am talking about.

Thank you, Everyone.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TwoHeartsBeatOne

Hi LadyPact,

Thank you for the link to the Age Play book. I will read it.

Do you have a suggestion for how I can say, "Daddy Doms who are edge-players"? I'm open to suggestions.

quote:

Keeping TOS in mind, and the reality that Daddy Doms have suffered stigma problems, even within their own ranks (maybe especially so), AND that I am seeking a way to ask questions in a way that does not offend others, is there a way you can think of to ask where the "line" is drawn in the BDSM community?

quote:

In other words, some in the community, in general, think all Daddy Dom relationships are sick. I am not one of them. Some within the Daddy Dom relationship community think that non-sexual Age Play is healthy and fun, but that to sexualize it is sick. Then there are some who do engage in sexual age-play, incest play, and/or molestation play. This thread, in part, reflects these divisions.

quote:

I'm trying to figure out, as someone who is new to these ways of thinking but has always been open in general, how to know the red flags as they relate to incest/molestation/sexualized age-play.

quote:

[Waaaaaaay back in the thread, I made this analogy:

Daddy Doms = cops
Pedophiles = robbers.

Cops/DD's are the good ones.

What's in common?

Cops/robbers - adrenaline inducing situations, street smarts, entering uninvited

DD edge players/pedophiles - need for control, playing kids' games/ praise / welcoming dependence on them

What's different? robbers/pedophiles violate the rights of others, DD edge players, respect the rights of others.

quote:

So, I asked, "What are the differences and I gave a list of known pedophile traits." I expected to be told about the differences - I assumed they existed, so I asked.

The reason for asking is because in BDSM, it's about consent and meaning. So, hitting an intimate partner is healthy, okay, in BDSM, with consent. The consent changes the meaning of the action(s).

It is in this spirit that I ask about similarities and differences. Yes, for every kink relationship, consent and age of consent must be present, including the age/edge players.

quote:

I take responsibility for not having the right language in the first place. In addition to that, another problem has been that Daddy Doms have been called pedophiles a lot. So, there's a bit of bias on the readers' end in terms of an intolerance for it being questioned. In other words, I am fine with incest/molestation players. Some here call that sick.

quote:

I am wondering if the BDSM community is simply divided in their opinions, or is there some central, standard of conduct beyond, SSC?

quote:

"What if you lived in a world where the worst taboo, the most vile, universally-hated act was to have sex with women?"

quote:

ORIGINAL: SinFix

DS, I applaud you for sticking in this thread. I haven't seen one this obtuse in a long time.

For what you are not getting is Daddy Doms for the most part have NO attraction to children or wish to act out sexual situations with one ( yes, there are exceptions). They are not using adult women to satisfy some deep dark secret.... DADDY DOMS= caring, nurturing, guiding, mentoring, helping, growth, they embody that loving male role-model that some people enjoy...

As to whether a DD is right for you, instead of focusing on some kink, how about you focus on finding a partner that is compatible and right for you and lay off the labels...

quote:

ORIGINAL: TwoHeartsBeatOne

Dark Feather

Sorry, it was post #175 here it is... but if you go back to post #12... I had already shown that I was open to being guided.

That, is when I came to conclusions.
*removed for space*

quote:

ORIGINAL: AllisonWilder

Open your eyes, lady. I didn't say 'go get in a relationship', I said focus on finding someone compatible rather than finding answers about a group of people that you don't belong in.


I see that no matter what anyone posts, you're just going to pick it apart and 'consider the source' so I'll bow out of this thread. It's gone on far too long already.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

This is just kind of a general reply to TwoHearts.

As horrible as pedophilia is, you know what creeps me out even more?? Orwellian thought police. You might want to ponder that for a moment. There are worse things in the world than pedophilia.

quote:

ORIGINAL: susie

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

13 pages of people trying to get it into your head that behaving as the head of the family does not make a man or woman automatically a child molester and you willfully closing your eyes and ears to this gives anyone the right to become disgusted and tired of you and your determined ignorance.

The fact that many of the guys who enjoy being a loving paternalistic dominant have healthy children of their own has made no difference to you. The fact that many of the woman who enjoy being treated as a protected and loved daughter have healthy children of their own has made no difference to you. You still insist on maintaining your disgusting belief.

What you ought to be doing instead of blaming every one else is simple. You ought to be getting therapy to deal with your issues so you won't be attracted to criminals in the future. You picked him, he didn't kidnap you and force you to be in a relationship with him. You need to own the fact that you picked him, that you found him attractive and that you didn't think about the qualities he exhibited. But that's hard work and it's a lot easier for you to blame tens of thousands of innocent people instead.

You beat me to it. I have read my way through and all the time I was thinking about the need for therapy. The OP obviously has serious issues related to her previous relationship which is has been shown by her constant reference to it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead
Try telling that to a six year old with an anal wick response.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

This is just kind of a general reply to TwoHearts.

As horrible as pedophilia is, you know what creeps me out even more?? Orwellian thought police. You might want to ponder that for a moment. There are worse things in the world than pedophilia.

Try telling that to a six year old with an anal wick response.

quote:

As for your question on The Woodsman film with Kevin Bacon (good film, btw). You are asking if it is ok for a grown woman to help a convicted pedophile work out his issues by having sex with her.

I do think it is okay. I was asking if others agreed that it is okay.

Only a very damaged person (like the woman in the film) would even consider doing such a thing with a convicted pedophile, who is equally damaged. I would venture to say that her doing so did not help him and would only lead to enabling him.

Well, consider then, the movie, "Secretary," in which an ashamed, self-loathing man matches with a self-abusing woman. They protect and heal each other through a BDSM relationship. Vanilla world would say they were both "damaged," right?

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: TwoHeartsBeatOne

Hi LadyPact,

Thank you for the link to the Age Play book. I will read it.

Do you have a suggestion for how I can say, "Daddy Doms who are edge-players"? I'm open to suggestions.

Well, like I said, for starters, you can stop calling it edge play when that isn't necessarily edge play. It was edge play from that one author's perspective because it goes into areas that are risky/scary for that author. Very similar to how a person could consider rape play to be edge play because they have a past trauma. To follow the parallel logic, ask yourself a question. Do you consider rape play between two consenting adults to be edge play? Don't parrot back that to some people it might be. I am asking YOU. Now, no matter what your answer, do you consider that answer to be universal based on your personal opinion?


Well, my answer is that it depends on more factors than you present here, so, "It might be." That's my opinion.

Here, I sought a consensus of views, specifically because one person says this and another says that.

Take the use of the term, "edge play." I also thought it meant things like breath play, blood play and maybe electrical play of extreme sorts. The article that little wonder posted gave an additional meaning for the term. The article is written by a MSW about case histories in BDSM and types of Age Play - sexual and non-sexual.

So, is your opinion that "edge play" is an incorrect term right, or is the MSW's opinion right? Or, are you both presenting personal preferences? Even considering that you both may be experts of a sort, where am I to go with that? So, for now, I think just remember that you prefer that the term be used in the way you like. Added to that thought is the fact that others have agreed with you, and not with the article's use of the term.

LilSquaw suggested using "incest play." Okay. Thank you both... that is one thing I was asking.

So, no, I don't think that my, or anyone else's opinions are fodder for a universal standard.

quote:

Keeping TOS in mind, and the reality that Daddy Doms have suffered stigma problems, even within their own ranks (maybe especially so), AND that I am seeking a way to ask questions in a way that does not offend others, is there a way you can think of to ask where the "line" is drawn in the BDSM community?

What I would suggest to you would be to consult a Mod. There is a forum guideline that says the topic of incest is not allowed here, but you are not really talking about incest. You are talking about a type of role play. From what I have seen, every post here has been about discussing what happens between consenting ADULTS. If it were Me, personally, I would suggest that you ask if you are permitted to use the term incest play, which frankly is a kink and there isn't anything wrong with unless people start sticking their noses in with their own judgements about it.


I wrote to Ranger2 but have not gotten a response yet.

quote:

In other words, some in the community, in general, think all Daddy Dom relationships are sick. I am not one of them. Some within the Daddy Dom relationship community think that non-sexual Age Play is healthy and fun, but that to sexualize it is sick. Then there are some who do engage in sexual age-play, incest play, and/or molestation play. This thread, in part, reflects these divisions.

I hate it when people start throwing this justification around. I could easily go back through this thread and find ten people who think what I do is sick because I like blood play. As long as I'm not cutting up people on the street, why should I give a damn what the 'community' thinks? The division that you speak of is personal opinion and nothing more.


Okay, that is at the heart of my purpose for posting to begin with. I did not know that the division was personal opinion, as opposed to a kind of generally accepted standard, or limit for what is considered to be BDSM. Got it!

quote:

I'm trying to figure out, as someone who is new to these ways of thinking but has always been open in general, how to know the red flags as they relate to incest/molestation/sexualized age-play.

I do not mean offense, but I have not seen the openness of which you speak. You got involved with someone in the past who did show you red flags and frankly, you are having a hard time of letting go of that. I think that is why so many people are trying to be patient with you, as I am. (I really am, so please understand that.)

I do feel you are being patient with me. I appreciate your focus on the issues. What red flags do you think he showed me? He hardly drank at all in the beginning. I didn't know until 5 months into living together that he was lying. At that point, he was very drunk, a lot, until the day he said the 8 yr. old was hot. I kicked him out on the spot! I still cared about this guy, I just couldn't help him, or have him near me or mine. I have grandkids who come around - one, is an 8yr. old girl. So, yeah, I got shook up.

Asking these questions is my way of becoming more educated, and finding new ways to think of things. And, if you saw the post in which I answered my own OP questions, you will see that I found them to invalid at worst and not really fitting, at best.

At this point, I'd like to tell you a personal thing of Mine. It irks the crap out of Me when I see a news report about certain criminal activities and they start throwing around the term "sexual sadist". Granted, they are entitled to use the term because it is a proper description when a criminal does certain acts that are linked to their own illness. Yet, I look at Myself and say, a lot of what I do is sexual sadism. In a sense, those who don't understand My sense of ethics could put Me in the same box. Very much, that is what you are doing here.


Okay, I see what you are saying, but if you look at my conclusions, I think you'll see that I did come to see past my original questions... so much so, that I myself deemed them to be invalid. Believe me, the more I learned along the thread... the more I realized why some were offended. And, I care about that. I apologize all over the place and continue to do so. But, I'm not sorry that I had confusion. I'm sorry that I wasn't able to ask for information in a more acceptable way. I'm not perfect.

quote:

[Waaaaaaay back in the thread, I made this analogy:

Daddy Doms = cops
Pedophiles = robbers.

Cops/DD's are the good ones.

What's in common?

Cops/robbers - adrenaline inducing situations, street smarts, entering uninvited

DD edge players/pedophiles - need for control, playing kids' games/ praise / welcoming dependence on them

What's different? robbers/pedophiles violate the rights of others, DD edge players, respect the rights of others.

Yes, and I truly wish you would stop using that analogy. It is nonsensical and ridiculous. By those common themes, you may as well label Me the same. You took three things that cops and robbers MAY have in common, but you forgot about the DOZENS of things that make them different. To use My own parallel above, you are using the logic that would say I am the same as a serial rapist who butchers his victims. After all, we have at least three things in common. We both get sexually excited by using someone against their will, blood is a turn on, and we commit these acts by forcing our will on the recipient. By your thinking, I'm a sick pervert.


I didn't forget about the dozens of differences. I asked what they were. Some answered that question. Thank you to those who did.

***I*** did not call anyone a sick pervert, but other posters did. I am very much a "Do as you will but harm none" kind of person. I think it is okay if a psychological pedophile uses a Daddy Dom "incest/molestation" play relationship to express sexuality among other adults. What harm in that? Well, some littles said, "No way!" They think that would be sick. Others here agree with me that there is no harm in it at all.

quote:

So, I asked, "What are the differences and I gave a list of known pedophile traits." I expected to be told about the differences - I assumed they existed, so I asked.

The reason for asking is because in BDSM, it's about consent and meaning. So, hitting an intimate partner is healthy, okay, in BDSM, with consent. The consent changes the meaning of the action(s).

It is in this spirit that I ask about similarities and differences. Yes, for every kink relationship, consent and age of consent must be present, including the age/edge players.

How can you sit here and say that you understand that this type of role play is between consenting adults and then you don't? You've got this deep, dark fear that people who engage in this type of play *might* have other thoughts. There's no free pass here.


I think that type of role play between consenting adults is fine, acceptable and perhaps even wondrous, as I stated previously in this thread. The part I am not sure about is if my having that view of things is out of the range of what is considered to be "a normal part" of BDSM. I'm checking my own judgment against the consensus of others. I asked local friends and there is no consensus there. So, I asked here.

quote:

I take responsibility for not having the right language in the first place. In addition to that, another problem has been that Daddy Doms have been called pedophiles a lot. So, there's a bit of bias on the readers' end in terms of an intolerance for it being questioned. In other words, I am fine with incest/molestation players. Some here call that sick.

No, I don't really think you are fine with it because you have spent most of this thread insisting that it is something else. If you were fine, it wouldn't have turned out like this.


There is a difference between my general view of what others do and what I now know is not good for me to do. In other words, I may still eventually seek a Daddy Dom, but I know to avoid any who have a penchant for incest/molestation play. That is not because I think it is wrong in any way. That's because it's not right for me, specifically.

quote:

I am wondering if the BDSM community is simply divided in their opinions, or is there some central, standard of conduct beyond, SSC?

Central standard of conduct? SSC?

<Long, deep breath.>

Here's a bit of trivia. Do you know that the guy who first came out with the term SSC considers himself to be a RACK player? That bleating of safe, sane, and consensual was whipped up in an attempt to become better understood to vanilla people. Even the man who is credited with using it during a speech at a leather convention says he never intended it to be a limiting term.

No, I didn't know. I've heard people use SSC and RACK interchangeably.

Sure. There are going to be divided opinions on just about anything in the lifestyle community that goes beyond bunny floggers and pink fuzzy handcuffs.

And that is where I was floundering. Who and what to believe in terms of what is "normal BDSM" and what is not.

Are there people who hide behind certain lifestyle kinks because they have abusive tendencies? YES! I can't negate that. Neither should you. So, yeah. When dude starts saying that eight year old in the kool-aid commercial is hot, that's probably a sign that you don't want to be with him. People who want to role play school teacher and student? Probably not.

I know this is getting long, but I see there is more. Don't be shocked if I end up screwing up the quotes.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TwoHeartsBeatOne

Also, it seems we took a different meaning from the article.

What I read said that edge play was considered as such because it is a taboo related to incest and/or molestation.

Again, incest play is not necessarily edge play.

quote:

After that, it says that when abuse has actually occurred for one or both of the participants, "it is not fantasy and it is not roleplay."

Now we're getting somewhere. That is what CAN make it edge play for SOME. Seriously, though, that is people dragging up their past issues and NOT the quintessential definition of such play.

quote:

You, among others, have stated that my wording is confusing, as is, and left it at that. How would you, or any others reading this, suggest it be worded? This gets tricky, because of the disagreements on terms.

Personally, I'd call it what it is. Incest play or rape play of a UM. Yes, I realize that even calling it that on this site could be construed as a forum guideline violation and it may be preferable to the moderation staff that I use another term. (Believe Me. After all of this, I will be sending a note to Chi to see if I need to change it or if I can reword the post so that it can stay.)


I was not aware of those terms until this thread. And, yes, I have read more than one BDSM glossary, in which edge play and role play are included, but not incest or molestation play. Thank you!

quote:

One main reason I was confused to begin with is because as a newbie, I found a mentor who told me about Daddy Doms, but only related it to nurturing - a gentle version of a Dom. So, when I actually did enter into a relationship with a Daddy Dom, that is what I thought would be going on. When he wanted me to be a lg and not just a submissive, I read about it and gave it a try. It was difficult for me but I loved him and even in a vanilla relationship I always tried to please my partner. When he then sexualized it, I freaked out and that ended that. Later, he was blatantly clear that he was attracted to children and that freaked me out even more.

I don't blame you for the freak out. That's not what this is about.

It is about you taking that experience and thinking that is how it is universally.

I wasn't thinking it was how it is universally, but I was open to that possibility. By post #12, I realized I had to qualify and change, Daddy Doms to Daddy Doms who engage in sexual age play, that evolved to edge play which has now evolved to incest/molestation play. And, very recently, LilSquaw said that incest/molestation play happens outside of DD relationships, too. I'd never heard that before, but okay, good to know.

I began the thread with "I am paralyzed by fear." Now, I'm not. Speaking up and asking the questions, however poorly worded, helped dispel the fear. Thank you everyone for that!

Yes, you found someone who really was attracted to children. You found that person who really was using the lifestyle to hide his actual intent. This thread shows your attempt to paint everyone with the same brush.


This thread shows my attempt to NOT paint everyone with the same brush. And, it worked.

quote:

So, previously, I did listen to these men about who and what Daddy Doms were. I know littles. A part of what is going on is that I now need to sort out what is healthy BDSM and what is not. Were there red flags that I missed? If so, what are they... as they relate specifically to sexualized age play? And, who is considered to be an authority on such things? With diversity, and intolerance for other's kinks present, I'm wondering where "the line" is.

Nobody can tell you if there were red flags that you missed other than what has been discussed in this thread. Otherwise, stop trying to draw those lines in the sand. Your line isn't My line and My line isn't Steven's line and Paul's line is completely different altogether. There is no authority that gets to make the decision of what consenting adults do is acceptable or not. You have to do that for yourself.


I am drawing my own lines, for me. My question is, "Has the community overwhelmingly agreed to any lines in the sand" as you put it. If so, how do newbies access that sort of information? From what I can tell, you are saying that the answer is, "No."

quote:

If I say, "the difference between edge players and pedophiles is lack of consent and chronological age, only" (which is what one poster here stated) then that leaves the notion that they are both psychologically the same in that they both share fantasies involving the sexualization of children.

No, it really doesn't.


Okay, perhaps reading the Age Play book you suggested will help me see the difference. I know many people here have said that incest/molestation play is not about the fantasy of sexualizing children, AND I BELIEVE THEM, but I still don't really understand how that is true. I just figure I have to search some more and I will understand. In other words, I'm allowing the "many" to guide my thinking, so far as I can with the knowledge I have up to this point. I'm fine with being wrong. It's not the first time and it won't be the last time. I don't beat myself up for being wrong. I honor my effort and yes, my open mind.

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Indeed, at least 4 posters here did say quite clearly that this is what they are doing in that type of role play. My personal experience, a few here have said, was not "normal" for a Daddy Dom relationship.

It's not normal, for them. They aren't the ones who get to set the bar and neither do you.

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I suspected that was the case, and hoped it, too, because I'd hate to think that Daddy Doms are like him!

My questions were posted here so that I, too, could know what I need to know so that I can recognize what made that relationship abnormal. Rather than limiting the responses to the one-on-one, R/L friends who discuss this with me, I thought it best to ask here, where a consensus might be clear.

Do you see what I mean? The guy who called himself a Daddy Dom broke my trust. He taught me things that I thought were true. So, I have to sort out what was real and what was his own twisted agenda.

So, I'm asking.

A person broke your trust. What happens when the next person who labels themselves with a category, say a sadist, breaks your trust? Maybe that sadist ignores your safeword and decides to do something to you that breaks your limits? Are all sadists suddenly anal rapers who shave your head while you are bound in ways that cut off your circulation? Again, your logic fails.


I don't think I've said anything global. There is a difference between asking a question and drawing a conclusion. If you, or others, check my conclusion post, you will see that I think my original questions were either invalid, or simply don't fit. Somewhere along the line here, that evolution in response to posters' educating me, seems to have been missed. Even if my logic failed initially... which I don't see how questions meant to explore a topic is a measure of logic, it would seem to me that posters were successful in helping me find a more logical way of considering the topic.

I truly am very grateful for that.

And, to you, specifically for taking the time to help me with this.