RE: Who really holds the power in a D/s relationship?

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RE: Who really holds the power in a D/s relationship? - 3/3/2013 6:28:42 PM

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I would say that in many relationships, the submissive has greater power. Personally, that's not the kind of relationship I ever want to be in as a sub/slave. I have been in a relationship for which I made the initial decision to submit but it was the last decision I ever made, no limits, no safe words, no getting out if I was truly a slave, honoring that one and only choice I had at first. The power in that kind of relationship, whether you regard it as given or taken, belongs to the Master.

Perhaps we do have to accept the notion that everybody's truth is right because there are so many ways a relationship's dynamic can go. However, prior to his/her total surrender, the power is in both their hands until that exchange of power is made. Then it becomes the Dom's/Master's benefit, along with the authority, control and final say in any decision. If the submissive retains any power, he or she is topping from the bottom. So, if we are examining a working, successful D/s relationship, the power becomes that of the Dominant or else it's a sham as D/s relationships go, in my opinion.

If the submissive reclaims the power, say to end the relationship, he or she must concede that they are not doing so as a sub or slave but rather stepping out of that role in order to regain control and make final choices.

_____________________________

At any given time, it would seem that what's on my mind is heavier on one side than on the other, entirely explaining my mental imbalance.

(in reply to RedMagic1)

RE: Who really holds the power in a D/s relationship? - 3/3/2013 6:40:35 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

quote:

ORIGINAL: njlauren
but in reality, it depends on the D/s couples own version of the truth.

That's by no means accurate about every type of relationship. There are, for example, brain studies that demonstrate that children's brains (and the brains of teens) make decisions differently from the brains of adults. So the custom of Afghani men in their 50s wedding 9 year old girls is not just something that "offends western sensibilities"; there's concrete biological evidence that this practice is unhealthy for the girl. Not everything is culturally relative, and just because someone chooses "their own truth" does not mean they not full of shit.

Or do you believe that there's no scientific basis for disciplines like family therapy, relationship counseling, and so on? Some types of relationship dynamics really are more abusive than others.

However, this line of conversation seems to be turning into a borderline hijack, so I'll stop here.

If you read my quote, I said that there are objective truths, and what you post about a 9 year old child being married would fall into that. Childhood development has been studied a long time, and it was realized a long time ago, from studies (long before cat scans) that children are incapable of consenting to sex with an adult, or anything else, because children's brains are wired to accept authority from older people, it is why we have statutory rape laws (that sadly are used in some quarters, especially down in the bible belt, to prosecute anyone that has sex with an underage girl, including a 15 year old having sex with a 14 year old girlfriend). If controlled studies and science can show something, that is objective truth, and I used that in my original post.

family therapy and relationship counseling are more problematic, because a lot of what they work on are theories and ideas that have been promoted that often can't be tested well. Richard Feynman wrote in one of his biographies his assessment of psychological research as science, and he was pretty negative about it, he said a lot of the time they do experiments once, for example, and claim proof, which mainstream science would never do, or that they don't necessarily examine with the kind of rigor a physics paper would get the claims of other researchers. It isn't that I don't believe in therapy and counseling and its benefits, it is that psychotherapy and the like are not necessarily based in science, a lot of it, even its practitioners will tell you, is a dark art.

With something like D/s relationships, the answer to how much power is there, what the power in fact is, is very, very difficult to assess logically or scientifically, and therefore the 'truth' about who has the power is very much subjective truth. Someone saying 'in a D/s, for it to be real, the dominant has to have all the power' is about as fictional statement as I can make, because what having all the power means is subjective in the end, not objective.

(in reply to RedMagic1)

RE: Who really holds the power in a D/s relationship? - 3/3/2013 6:45:31 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Baroana

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

quote:

ORIGINAL: theshytype

Although, my submission is a gift....

Where's my paddle...

Seriously, the main issue I have with the "gift" idea is it is often accompanied with an "I'm a princess" mentality.

As for who holds the power, as has been said, both do, to various degrees. Can either side end the relationship? Well, there's the power.

Really? My problem with "submission is a gift" is that it suggests the relationship consists of "I give, you take."

Buuuullllshit!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry for the extended quote and comment not particularly in reply to any specific person.

I don't mind the 'submission is a gift' concept if you believe the same in reverse that My Dominance is a gift, or My being a Mother is a gift, or My friendship is a gift, or being a sister is a gift, or being a daughter is a gift, or that it's a gift to him that I'm his wife.

By this, I mean that I can see a very positive person believing that our beneficial relationships bring something into our lives that they "give" us. I'm not saying that there is no return investment on our part in most cases. In other cases, like My grandchildren, sure I see them as 'gifts' because of what they bring into My life.

A little off topic, but since we're talking about different views, I thought I'd throw that out there.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to Baroana)

RE: Who really holds the power in a D/s relationship? - 3/3/2013 6:49:58 PM

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This family holds the power to make this family something great. Each person here has power to do positive, and negative. Whether He allows the negative to continue is in His control. We don't believe in "submission is a gift" or "winning submission". One is either submissive or they aren't. If they choose to submit to Him or Myself, it's just that...submission. Period. They have the power to take that submission away, and we have power to show them the door.

_____________________________

Goddess of Duck Lips and Luxurious Hair
The working Fin Domme
Professional con artist, swindler, trixster, extortionist

Our snark-nado needs more cowbell

(in reply to njlauren)

RE: Who really holds the power in a D/s relationship? - 3/3/2013 6:49:58 PM

MAINEiacMISTRESS

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quote:

ORIGINAL: zpenguin

Food for thought

Who really holds the power in a D/s relationship?

This was a conversation myself and a former sub had, I thought it was interesting.

Granted when you think of it without putting much thought you think oh the Dom does, well thats to a point. I speak for myself here not everyone, granted its easy to bark orders (in your subs mind this is disrespectful if she or he is new to you,,granted not always the case because lets face it some like it that way) but in order to have a healthy D/s relationship trust, caring, and kindness must also be displayed just as much if not more than the rough side.
So that being said, I believe demanding something of someone upon first contact is silly, irrational, and disrespectful. The conclusion that myself and my former sub came to is, the submission of one to another is a gift. The submissive is willing to allow you to take control. They trust you with giving them what they desire(sexually that is), to protect them, guidance, and safety. My sub (we will call her Eve) was new to the scene when I met her, but she was very curious and willing to learn. I've had prior subs before Eve but she was the first one to question different aspects, and actually open my eyes to things I haven't thought of before. I believe the Dom only holds as much power as the submissive is willing to give them. Also on the flip side, the Dom holds as much power within that margin as he/she desires. Some are willing do the 24/7 and others its a bedroom or once in a blue moon deal.
So what are your thoughts?
Who really holds the power in a D/s relationship?

Actually I AGREE with what you have written...except on one part of a sentence: "They trust you with giving them what they desire (sexually that is)..."
1). Not all D/s is sexual, in fact MANY D/s relationships are NON-sexual (we've already discussed this in the forums, you can look there so I won't rehash)
2). A Dominant is not always going to "give them what they desire". For one thing Dominants are not caterers, nor do we perform (and sometimes a Dominant has Hard Limits in that particular area, say coprophagy, or diapers, or cutting, or 24/7 caging, or whatever), that does not mean the D/s dynamic isn't working, in fact it might be in the sub's best interests to have the Dominant set LIMITS on their desires.

To answer your question: From My experience (some may have a different dynamic entirely) D/s needs to be a Harmony between two people, the submissive gives (yes GIVES) their body and trust to another, yields and gives their obedience. The Dominant Guides and Controls. However, if they are not working in harmony to better develop and improve their dynamic (i.e. COMMUNICATING, working together) the relationship is incomplete. Especially when we are talking about D/s relationships that involve Power Exchange, then by the very nature of the dynamics involved the sub gives over power and control to the Dominant who thereafter is in the position of Power:
Although the sub can always walk away from the relationship...while involved in the relationship they essentially YIELD POWER to their Dominant.

Furthermore, I cannot stress this enough because SOME just. don't. get. it: submission cannot be FORCED through coersion or violence, otherwise it's not SUBMISSION (this is why approaching a person you've just met and TELLING them to submit will just get you laughed at). Therefore yes, it must be a "gift" of sorts, or rather a more accurate way of putting it: "giving of oneself" over to the control of another.
Submissives "give of themselves" while Dominants "take into their care" (unless they are an abusive FUCK...but that's another forum topic as well)

--MM
(written while half asleep, I'm sure there are typos but I'm too sleepy to care)

(in reply to zpenguin)

RE: Who really holds the power in a D/s relationship? - 3/3/2013 8:06:49 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: zpenguin
Who really holds the power in a D/s relationship?

This is where I get baffled. For starters I think the word "power" is misleading at best. What exactly is this mystical power that I allegedly have? I cannot move Carol's arms or legs. She must do that. I cannot change her thoughts. She must do that. I think a much better word is "influence". Even that is a subtle thing. At the surface layer I have a lot more influence over the day to day workings of our marriage than she does. On the other hand I make no bones about it... the purpose of my life is to give her the best life I can manage. If I can say I accomplished that one thing on my death bed I'll be content. Clearly she has massive influence over me and her influence is written all over every aspect of my life.

In real life Carol and I are two parts of a whole. The entire concept of "who has the power" requires looking at us as individual pieces. We're more like fish in a school. We tend to flit this way and that in unison because it's our school and we want to stay in it. I just happen to be the fish out in the front.

edited to add:
Insofar as submission being a gift, my thought on that is that it is up to the recipient not the giver to decide if something is actually a gift or not. I don't particularly see Carol's submission as a gift. It's just who she is and she could be no other way. Carol herself? Now THAT is a different story. Carol is a gift from heaven that I utterly do not and could not deserve. That is my judgement and I think I'm entitled to it. She can decide how she feels about me and my dominance for herself.

< Message edited by JeffBC -- 3/3/2013 8:12:52 PM >

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to zpenguin)

RE: Who really holds the power in a D/s relationship? - 3/3/2013 8:17:42 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

edited to add:
Insofar as submission being a gift, my thought on that is that it is up to the recipient not the giver to decide if something is actually a gift or not. I don't particularly see Carol's submission as a gift. It's just who she is and she could be no other way. Carol herself? Now THAT is a different story. Carol is a gift from heaven that I utterly do not and could not deserve. That is my judgement and I think I'm entitled to it. She can decide how she feels about me and my dominance for herself.

One could argue that Carol's submissive personality is a part of herself, and therefore a gift. It's just one of the facets of the gift that she is in your life.

The thing is, it's not the submission that is 'special'. It's the person.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to JeffBC)

RE: Who really holds the power in a D/s relationship? - 3/3/2013 8:28:21 PM

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From: Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
The thing is, it's not the submission that is 'special'. It's the person.

Well, that's how us elite people think about it anyway. :)

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to LadyPact)

RE: Who really holds the power in a D/s relationship? - 3/3/2013 8:35:07 PM

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Joined: 1/5/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: zpenguin

Who really holds the power in a D/s relationship?

The individual with the strength to terminate it.

_____________________________

The asshole formerly known as Awareness

(in reply to zpenguin)

RE: Who really holds the power in a D/s relationship? - 3/3/2013 10:48:56 PM

Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: zpenguin

Food for thought

Who really holds the power in a D/s relationship?

This was a conversation myself and a former sub had, I thought it was interesting.

Granted when you think of it without putting much thought you think oh the Dom does, well thats to a point. I speak for myself here not everyone, granted its easy to bark orders (in your subs mind this is disrespectful if she or he is new to you,,granted not always the case because lets face it some like it that way) but in order to have a healthy D/s relationship trust, caring, and kindness must also be displayed just as much if not more than the rough side.
So that being said, I believe demanding something of someone upon first contact is silly, irrational, and disrespectful. The conclusion that myself and my former sub came to is, the submission of one to another is a gift. The submissive is willing to allow you to take control. They trust you with giving them what they desire(sexually that is), to protect them, guidance, and safety. My sub (we will call her Eve) was new to the scene when I met her, but she was very curious and willing to learn. I've had prior subs before Eve but she was the first one to question different aspects, and actually open my eyes to things I haven't thought of before. I believe the Dom only holds as much power as the submissive is willing to give them. Also on the flip side, the Dom holds as much power within that margin as he/she desires. Some are willing do the 24/7 and others its a bedroom or once in a blue moon deal.
So what are your thoughts?
Who really holds the power in a D/s relationship?

I say, the sub but then....that's my own perspective :)

(in reply to zpenguin)

RE: Who really holds the power in a D/s relationship? - 3/4/2013 2:06:45 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
The thing is, it's not the submission that is 'special'. It's the person.

Well, that's how us elite people think about it anyway. :)

Awww I like that. "It's the person".

_____________________________

Goddess of Duck Lips and Luxurious Hair
The working Fin Domme
Professional con artist, swindler, trixster, extortionist

Our snark-nado needs more cowbell

(in reply to JeffBC)

RE: Who really holds the power in a D/s relationship? - 3/4/2013 3:07:38 AM

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I'm way late to the party, but here's my 2 cents worth (and I'll note that it's over priced)..................

A healthy D/s relationship isn't as different from a healthy vanilla relationship as we would like to believe. There are many details and certainly activities that differ, but a pretty significant level of equality and mutual respect is an absolute must for the relationship to survive.

Sex is a major power issue in any relationship, in a healthy vanilla relationship it comes when both are agreeable to it (even if it's just one doing to please the other at that moment.) It's not so different in a D/s relationship where the submissive has accepted sex on demand as part of contract (either formal or informal.) Even if the submissive gets no sexual pleasure or release from sex on demand when they're not in the mood, we do take comfort in the Dom/Domme having that level of control.

It is when the mutual respect is lost that the control is often abused and the submissives needs as well as desires are downplayed or even ignored. Again, not so unlike the failure of a vanilla relationship.

< Message edited by Muttling -- 3/4/2013 3:08:00 AM >

(in reply to Villain4Damsel)

RE: Who really holds the power in a D/s relationship? - 3/4/2013 3:35:47 AM

MAINEiacMISTRESS

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TAFKAA

quote:

ORIGINAL: zpenguin

Who really holds the power in a D/s relationship?
The individual with the strength to terminate it.

Ultimately, YES.

(in reply to TAFKAA)

RE: Who really holds the power in a D/s relationship? - 3/4/2013 3:46:37 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MAINEiacMISTRESS
Ultimately, YES.

Well I suppose that's true in some macabre mindset where we count the end of a relationship as "powerful". Yeah, I know it's a personal preference thing but this is one of those instances when I really, really prefer my mindset and relationship.

Then again, I suppose in a twisted sort of way I'm the poster child for that statement because anyone who tries to use either divorce or sex as a negotiation tactic with me gets one warning then they get gone.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to MAINEiacMISTRESS)

RE: Who really holds the power in a D/s relationship? - 3/4/2013 4:34:16 AM

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I liked that first sentence, a lot.

_____________________________

Goddess of Duck Lips and Luxurious Hair
The working Fin Domme
Professional con artist, swindler, trixster, extortionist

Our snark-nado needs more cowbell

(in reply to JeffBC)

RE: Who really holds the power in a D/s relationship? - 3/4/2013 5:58:07 AM

MAINEiacMISTRESS

Posts: 1180
Joined: 9/12/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: MAINEiacMISTRESS
Ultimately, YES.

Well I suppose that's true in some macabre mindset where we count the end of a relationship as "powerful". Yeah, I know it's a personal preference thing but this is one of those instances when I really, really prefer my mindset and relationship.

Then again, I suppose in a twisted sort of way I'm the poster child for that statement because anyone who tries to use either divorce or sex as a negotiation tactic with me gets one warning then they get gone.

*edited to add, "...but then it's not a RELATIONSHIP, and relationships are what we are talking about here.

(in reply to JeffBC)

RE: Who really holds the power in a D/s relationship? - 3/4/2013 5:58:16 AM

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FR

quote:

The entire concept of "who has the power" requires looking at us as individual pieces. We're more like fish in a school. We tend to flit this way and that in unison because it's our school and we want to stay in it. I just happen to be the fish out in the front.

Himself and I are a team. Sure, we both have the power to end the relationship, but is that really power *within* the relationship? Well, no, b/c if you end it, the relationship ends. That's an easy sort of power to wield that can quickly backfire.

quote:

A healthy D/s relationship isn't as different from a healthy vanilla relationship as we would like to believe. There are many details and certainly activities that differ, but a pretty significant level of equality and mutual respect is an absolute must for the relationship to survive.

.

Like any other relationship, we both have power. In some areas, I have ceded some of my power to him. That's a conscious choice of mine, so it doesn't leave me powerless. In fact, as a couple, it makes the two of us stronger, and thus more powerful.

_____________________________

(in reply to TNDommeK)

RE: Who really holds the power in a D/s relationship? - 3/4/2013 8:10:42 AM

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We have equal power in making the relationship successful or a failure. He has more authority.
I compare it to a surgeon and the OR nurse. The surgeon has more authority but the patient would not survive without all the supporting people. The anesthesiologist, the nurse checking the blood pressure, the other nurse counting sponges and so on.

I personally have no trouble being treated as a beloved and indulged princess, it doesn't take anything away from him being the King.

And I hope that we both bring awesome things to the relationship that makes it more than its component parts. That together we are more than either one of us apart could be.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to ChatteParfaitt)

RE: Who really holds the power in a D/s relationship? - 3/4/2013 8:28:55 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

quote:

ORIGINAL: zpenguin

Who really holds the power in a D/s relationship?

Everyone involved holds equal power.

aaww no... I don't agree... Not eveyone holds equal power. Some are frankly more powerful and capable indivdiuals than others. This has nothing to do with D-types or S-types either. Some S-types are actually more powerful individuals than their D-Type.

Now I generally see power.. as the Ability to BE what one is! The more a person excercises their inner nature the more power I see in them.

Another aspect of the Ability to Use the inner power of one self is the effectiveness of thier use of the power they have.

So... how holds the power.... simply the one that is the most effective in being themselves! When D-types and S-types are both very effective in being themselves... that is when you see a very powerful relationship!

This to me is the more important question.... Do you have a Powerful relationship. Are those in the relationship effectively being themselves... are they effective taking their innerselves and living that aspect of themselves in the relationship?

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to stef)

RE: Who really holds the power in a D/s relationship? - 3/4/2013 8:52:27 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists
So... how holds the power.... simply the one that is the most effective in being themselves! When D-types and S-types are both very effective in being themselves... that is when you see a very powerful relationship! This to me is the more important question.... Do you have a Powerful relationship. Are those in the relationship effectively being themselves... are they effective taking their innerselves and living that aspect of themselves in the relationship?

If I die Carol wants to be your next unicorn. From all your posts I'd be pleased with that outcome.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to KnightofMists)

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