RE: Who really holds the power in a D/s relationship?

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RE: Who really holds the power in a D/s relationship? - 3/4/2013 6:48:31 PM

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I tend to agree with Lady P, there are a lot of serious people into D/s,M/s, though in my experience they make up a minority of the total BD/SM community, they aren't that rare, either. Levels of those relationships vary, but there are a lot of them out there, and I agree with LP that one of the daunting things I found at meetings and groups and such, is that a lot of the people there already are in relationships. I do think Charles is right, that those willing to do 'deep' D/s, M/s relationships, I am talking near total control or total control are rare, or that is my experience, anyway:). I think it is very easy to believe that most people into this stuff are fakers or pretenders, in part because they often are loud and obnoxious IME, but there are a lot of genuine people who rather then judge others relations, do what they can to help others and concentrate on their own stuff;)

< Message edited by njlauren -- 3/4/2013 6:53:25 PM >

(in reply to DesFIP)

RE: Who really holds the power in a D/s relationship? - 3/4/2013 10:07:08 PM

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I'm sorry LadyPact for anything foolish I said.Its just sometimes it can be frustrating on this Collarchat because the impression some people leave on here is that "they are right,your wrong",move on.I have just as much of a right to speak my mind as much as the next person.

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RE: Who really holds the power in a D/s relationship? - 3/4/2013 10:28:57 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Charles6682

I'm sorry LadyPact for anything foolish I said.Its just sometimes it can be frustrating on this Collarchat because the impression some people leave on here is that "they are right,your wrong",move on.I have just as much of a right to speak my mind as much as the next person.

I didn't take offense to anything, Charles.

On the net, I think you get a very broad spectrum of folks. That's everything from people who think this is a hook-up joint to long term PE dynamics. Maybe it's even lopsided with the former. In general, the average local munch group goes the other way because a lot of the established members make it clear that their BDSM events aren't the place for those with the idea that they are going to walk in and get laid. It tends to keep the BS down.

The advantage that's also in the real world is that bottoms aren't tied to labeling themselves as submissives, like they are here. Don't misunderstand Me. There isn't a darn thing wrong with being a bottom and being honest about being in wiitwd for the sensations. (Same goes for tops.) It does mean that not as many have to restrict themselves to a label that doesn't fit.

When I see the way the s-types interact with their D-types in public and in their homes, when they come to My house and watch that their habits don't change, I know how they are submitting and serving. It's right there in front of Me, so I put faith into it being true.

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RE: Who really holds the power in a D/s relationship? - 3/5/2013 2:52:40 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheSwan

Original poster, you made a point I agree with, which is the idea that the dominant only has as much power as the submissive allows them.
(Though in my semantics, I would word that as that the dominant could only control or make use of as much as of the submissive's power as he/she had allowed to them.)
This is the case everywhere in life - An employer only gets as much use out of an employee as they can inspire.
Parents only get their children to act to standards which they can draw out of their children.
Masters only receive as much submission from Slaves as they are capable of inspiring.

Sorry for only quoting part of your post TheSwan. This part of your post makes more sense to me than anything else I have read so far on this thread.

You talk about inspiration and like you, I believe that inspiration from either partner is what leads any relationship forward including D/s.

Far too many D/s relationships are short lived. Give it a year, maybe two and things start to go Pete Tong. My personal experience of short lived relationships is when the submissive doesn't inspire me outside of my D/s imagination and I realize that for her/him its all about them and their need to submit.

A submissive, just like a dominant, has to put something in the pot and to do that without worrying about 'who holds the power', they need to accept that all of this is choice. They both hold the power.

For any relationship to remain long lived and fruitful, inspiration from both parties will play a major part. Someone who can inspire, will create drive in his partner. If they can inspire one another then both will be more conscientious towards each others needs. They will both have more self-esteem, and optimism, they will both be more confident and outgoing.

I don't live within a D/s relationship but we are both the driving force behind each others success. Neither of us hold back on praise where praise is due and neither of us are ever left alone with a problem that needs solving. inspiration is the energy that drives us.

I also believe that this can be a fundamental problem within D/s relationships because To be inspired, one has to be open and for being open one has to be sensitive. It seems to me, that many dominants don't wish to show a sensitive side to their partner.

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RE: Who really holds the power in a D/s relationship? - 3/5/2013 4:15:25 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: zpenguin
The conclusion that myself and my former sub came to is, the submission of one to another is a gift.

Did you also come to the conclusion that dominance is a gift?

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RE: Who really holds the power in a D/s relationship? - 3/5/2013 5:36:26 AM

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The person that has the qualities, traits and will to take it. Just like in any relationship, whether it is on a pairing level, friendship, family or business. Many people make this overly complicated.

In my relationships I hold the power and control, or I decide the relationship is no longer to my liking.

quote:

ORIGINAL: zpenguin

Who really holds the power in a D/s relationship?

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RE: Who really holds the power in a D/s relationship? - 3/5/2013 5:48:02 AM

xssve

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: zpenguin
The conclusion that myself and my former sub came to is, the submission of one to another is a gift.

Did you also come to the conclusion that dominance is a gift?

Both dom and sub are giving each other the gift of their time, time of course, is money, i.e., it has value.

And further, the dom may be giving your gift of not beating you to death, and the sub may be giving you the gift of not killing you in your sleep.

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RE: Who really holds the power in a D/s relationship? - 3/5/2013 6:15:43 AM

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I think when both or more parties find success in a D/s relationship...that's the gift!

I think there are a lot of "dime a dozen" people who claim dom and/or sub. But when you find what fits perfectly, that's awesome.

< Message edited by TNDommeK -- 3/5/2013 6:17:59 AM >

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RE: Who really holds the power in a D/s relationship? - 3/5/2013 2:23:28 PM

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imo neither is a gift. It's work...pleasurable work...but work all the same.

Imo seeing all of this as some kind of gift puts it in the realm of fantasy. It's an easy way to get someone to submit if you put it in flowery, romantic words. And it's an easy way to make a Dom feel guilty if he does something you don't like. You get to say "but I'm a gift to you. Why would you do that to your gift?"....eerr...because he can???

I don't want to be his gift. I have no desire for him to see me as some kind of special snowflake or for him to feel guilty of breaking a gift someone gave him. It reminds me of when someone gives you a gift, you don't particularly care for it and then when that person comes to visit, they ask you were that gift is. So you have to pull it out of the closet before they arrive because you feel guilty about that person giving it to you.

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RE: Who really holds the power in a D/s relationship? - 3/5/2013 2:31:33 PM

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I'm thinking of "gift" a bit differently. To me, the way my family is, how we are fortunate enough to have found each other, the blessings we share... To me that's the gift.

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Our snark-nado needs more cowbell

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RE: Who really holds the power in a D/s relationship? - 3/5/2013 2:44:45 PM

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~FR~

Gifts are given. I never take anything as a given anymore. If you don't work for it, and hold onto it through your actions, then it can be more easily taken away. The gift word is crap and meant to make the power exchange seem more palatable in a society where the word "equal" seems to mean more in non-mathematical discussions.

I don't give gifts and don't want them. Earn, through actions, the things that mean a lot to you.

_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

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RE: Who really holds the power in a D/s relationship? - 3/5/2013 3:35:46 PM

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Heh, I think all this "submission is a gift" bullshit is just simple semantics and personal definition. If the phrase serves as useful in your life, use it, if not, then don't.
But christ on a pogo stick stop fucking arguing about it because that just wastes everybodys time.
Going back and forth about that phrase has taken this topic so far off the OP is no longer even being considered in the discussion.

Awesome!

Luci

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RE: Who really holds the power in a D/s relationship? - 3/5/2013 4:35:24 PM

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I totally agree with the "my submission is a gift" is crap. That's what I was meaning when saying what I think the gift really is. One is either wanting to submit to that person or they aren't.

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RE: Who really holds the power in a D/s relationship? - 3/5/2013 5:56:45 PM

MalcolmNathaniel

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I DO! I HAVE THE POWER OF GRAYSKULL!

That and I'm an electrical engineer. I'm usually the only one in the relationship who knows how to work the generator or the breaker panel. Which means that I am the one who has to get up in the middle of the night fix things when some damned storm comes along and the heat goes out.

Wait a tic. Who has the power?

I have met some women for whom it is a gift. I've met some women for whom it is a compulsion. I've met some women for whom it is a lark. I've also met some women for whom it is a lark and then realize that the power exchange is what they were looking for all along.

Theoretically, in modern Western countries it is a fifty-fifty thing. Realistically the women, no matter what side of the kneel, has more power than the man. In some other countries it is much the opposite.

Let's get back to this whole "Submission is a gift thing."

"BOO! HIISS!" I hear from the audience! "Not this thing again!"

I can't be with a woman who is not submissive. Some have been with me because they offered a gift, some because they didn't want to lose me and some because they were just raised to do what their man wanted.

So what is my final answer on who holds the power. Alright Regis, final answer: It depends.

(in reply to TNDommeK)

RE: Who really holds the power in a D/s relationship? - 3/5/2013 6:07:09 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: zpenguin
Who really holds the power in a D/s relationship?

Define "power", and I'll give you an answer to your question.
If you want my answer using MY personal definition of power, the dominant person in a dominant/submissive relationship is the one with the power. That's by very definition of the terms, and it can't be any other way. If the 'submissive' person had the power, they'd be the dominant partner.

If you'd like my answer using another definition of power, let me know what it is and I'll get right on it.

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RE: Who really holds the power in a D/s relationship? - 3/5/2013 6:24:09 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: zpenguin
The conclusion that myself and my former sub came to is, the submission of one to another is a gift.

Did you also come to the conclusion that dominance is a gift?

Nope we just get to be kinky santa clause

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(in reply to GotSteel)

RE: Who really holds the power in a D/s relationship? - 3/5/2013 6:35:57 PM

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Given all the recent comments on submission not being a gift, let me remind you all...

Submission is a raw, wild wonder to explore and plunder, much like a natural resource.

Herpes, on the other hand, is not only a gift. It keeps on giving.

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There is nothing worse than being right. Instead of being right, then, try to be open. It is more difficult, and more rewarding.

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RE: Who really holds the power in a D/s relationship? - 3/5/2013 8:02:22 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheSwan

Original poster, you made a point I agree with, which is the idea that the dominant only has as much power as the submissive allows them.
(Though in my semantics, I would word that as that the dominant could only control or make use of as much as of the submissive's power as he/she had allowed to them.)
This is the case everywhere in life - An employer only gets as much use out of an employee as they can inspire.
Parents only get their children to act to standards which they can draw out of their children.
Masters only receive as much submission from Slaves as they are capable of inspiring.

Sorry for only quoting part of your post TheSwan. This part of your post makes more sense to me than anything else I have read so far on this thread.

You talk about inspiration and like you, I believe that inspiration from either partner is what leads any relationship forward including D/s.

Far too many D/s relationships are short lived. Give it a year, maybe two and things start to go Pete Tong. My personal experience of short lived relationships is when the submissive doesn't inspire me outside of my D/s imagination and I realize that for her/him its all about them and their need to submit.

A submissive, just like a dominant, has to put something in the pot and to do that without worrying about 'who holds the power', they need to accept that all of this is choice. They both hold the power.

For any relationship to remain long lived and fruitful, inspiration from both parties will play a major part. Someone who can inspire, will create drive in his partner. If they can inspire one another then both will be more conscientious towards each others needs. They will both have more self-esteem, and optimism, they will both be more confident and outgoing.

I don't live within a D/s relationship but we are both the driving force behind each others success. Neither of us hold back on praise where praise is due and neither of us are ever left alone with a problem that needs solving. inspiration is the energy that drives us.

I also believe that this can be a fundamental problem within D/s relationships because To be inspired, one has to be open and for being open one has to be sensitive. It seems to me, that many dominants don't wish to show a sensitive side to their partner.

I loved what you wrote! I agree totally about for a relationship lasting that both have to inspire (it isn't all that much different then a vanilla one in that sense). One of the rocky roads of submission I have observed is it does become "I expect the dom/me to dominate in the way I need, to control me, whatever....and their idea of giving submission seems one side. There is a power any submissive and dominant have, the power to inspire, in other words. If the inspiration is flowing one way, that is kind of a 68 to me, you do me and I owe you one:).....Whatever the nature of the relationship, whatever power exchange there is, it still comes from both people, bravo:)

(in reply to MariaB)

RE: Who really holds the power in a D/s relationship? - 3/5/2013 8:13:28 PM

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I am not so certain submission is a gift per se, because a gift means giving something away to someone else, and with submission as I know it it is more about sharing who you are with someone, since if you have the need to submit you are gaining from it, too. Maybe the way to look at it is like love, it is a shared, precious gift of two people opening up who they are to each other, sharing often their deepest secrets/needs/desires, and that sharing is the real gift, whether the couple is romantically involved, or simply into D/s.

(in reply to njlauren)

RE: Who really holds the power in a D/s relationship? - 3/5/2013 9:28:03 PM

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that's very well said, njlauren ^_^ i don't view submission as more a gift than dominance. for me, dominance is an enormous "gift;" i don't really see what D/M-folks get out of it, so when I have that, in a real, tangible way, i'm incredibly grateful for it.
but i agree with you - the "gift" we give each other is the space and freedom to be who we each are. that's pretty spectacular, really.

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