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RE: home birth in chains - 3/22/2013 5:39:40 AM

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quote:

wintermaster Post 1 & 4: The midwife is very supportive (she is a big advocate in individualizing birth plans) and says that she had no safety concerns since the chains will be able to be removed easily. . . . for the ankles there will be plenty of chain . . . allowing easy walking. She has several lengths and I have even seen her do some yoga poses in them.

quote:

muhly Post 5: I would say to be ready to take them off mid-labor, but other than that, if it's something that she wants to do, and your midwife doesn't think it will be in any way harmful, I say go for it . . . . But since the chains will be easy to take off, if it becomes a problem, I wouldn't think that it should be too much to simply take them off and throw them in the corner.

quote:

Oside Post 7: Personally, I have several comments that I will keep to myself.
That said, if your midwife doesn't have an issue with it and has all safety measures in place, then I assume it's fine.

quote:

chatterbox Post 11: She has had 3 children. She wears chains regularly. She likes it. Its her idea. If there is no risk to the baby. I wont be judging here. . . . Never heard of it, nor would it be a wish of mine. I was wiggling around and cussing everyone. . . .Wishing your family a healthy future birth!

quote:

Athena Post 21: No he never said they would be witnessing the birth, but he did say that she spends days at home (as a stay-home mother) in chains.

quote:

wintermaster Post 23: She wears normal clothes and mostly long skirts which make them less obvious.

quote:

alhamdullilah Post 56: Children don't have to be traumatized by their parents' deviance from social norms. Parents can only do their best to endeavor to do it right... which is the challenge for all parents, all unique and all unlicensed. . . . And by the time they're teenagers, they're just gonna think you're freaks anyway!

It is fairly established under US law and even CPS that the government does not interfere with what is or is not worn in the home, provided it is not an armament. Chains are sometimes also seen with Gothic look. This acceptance has also been argued to include casual family nudity, though uncommon, and not involved in this OP situation.

_____________________________

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Yeah, fantasy is not reality. That's how it gives direction to the truly gifted.

(in reply to chatterbox24)

RE: home birth in chains - 3/22/2013 5:44:28 AM

TwoHeartsBeatOne

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wintermaster
The midwife is very supportive (she is a big advocate in individualizing birth plans) and says that she had no safety concerns since the chains will be able to be removed easily.

Seriously, when I read your OP, I stopped breathing. It was visceral. I became frightened for the kids, the unborn child, your wife and you; but mostly the kids. The primal Mama Bear woke right up!!!

My first thoughts: Get a better midwife. Something is very wrong here. You deserve better advice!

Then - Nah, a midwife wouldn't risk a baby or Mom like that - nor their own career. Geez, I hope this is a fake post... for whatever reason!

But, I read the posts and gave it more thought. I'm going to assume this is real and that you just have lousy advice from a midwife who is saying things that violate the code of ethics. So, here goes...

I gave birth to my first child in a hospital and to the next three children at home, with midwives. My work had me living on the road (really, hotels and planes and no home base for years). So, being pregnant, in each new city, or country, I was a new patient and saw many, many midwives. I'm good at childbirth. My birthing videos are used for teaching. So, I have that kind of experience and come from that perspective.

Believe me when I say that your midwife needs to no longer be anyone's midwife. You are being mis-guided, so I'm glad you spoke up here. No matter how you proceed, I sincerely hope that you have that conversation with other midwives - many - and now!

This part is to your wife, specifically. One of the beautiful things in parenting is that our love for these dependent and vulnerable people compels us to stretch beyond who we would have been without loving them. It's a sacrifice.

In your case, you are being shown an opportunity to submit in powerful ways, such as:

1) Offering your Master the gift of having a responsible, knowledgeable and protective mother for his children.
-You want to wear chains during your day, but to do so puts limitations on your ability to respond to emergencies, increases your risk of injury and risks exposing vulnerable children to adult dealings. So, it's different than being a child-less couple and you have this chance to let your hearts grow, if only in gratitude, that you get to have kids to love at all. The grownups sacrifice their own "wants" for the children's "needs." So, this conflict is a chance for you to become more loving parents, through sacrifice.

2) Offering your M/s relationship this chance to grow and change and strengthen.
-You both love to live the fantasy and that's fun and all. Now, you can shift your outer/superficial slavery for a deeper and more intimate, inner enslavement. As you both grow into a parenting unit that is strong enough to put children's safety ahead of your BDSM-related desires, that rise in maturity, integrity and flexibility will solidify your ability to love others, as a couple. In this, you both submit to the awesome responsibility to put the little ones' safety and well-being first. This will enhance your ability to submit and for your husband to gain some empathy in submitting because that is what is best for all.

3) Offering you both the chance to shift your minds towards a more consequence-based way of decision-making.
-What, as parents, are your values? Is the slave's desire to wear chains and to have that feeling and appearance more important than the slave's responsibility to be the best protector and care-giver for the little ones? How will you handle it when the other kids aren't allowed to play with your kids, be in your home, attend school trips in which you are the chaperon? When the kids come home with the nickname the classmates gave them, along with the mental anguish that goes with it, how will we as parents, teach them to suffer it? Should we teach our kids to lie (calling it privacy) and let them carry the responsibility, or should we respect their need for boundaries from our adult world and not expose them to it? Do we value children, and if so, how much? If you do, then this shift will give you the gift of humility - and therefore, a better M/s couple.

4) Giving birth naturally and with your full heart.
-There's a book, Spiritual Midwifery. Read it. It's old and it is written in hippee lingo, but it talks about submitting to the universal life energy (labor) and in doing so, eliminating pain. I've done it as have many others... no pain, just intense energy. What it takes to experience this is preparation, practice and commitment. It's about focusing on appreciating your birth team, about being in communication with the baby during labor - and on not focusing on your self. You literally surrender to the energy flow. That is what the baby is doing, too, and it bonds you.

I could go on, but these are the important points, IMHO. There are opportunities here for both of you if you will just take the focus off of "self" and instead focus on love, and others.

About the chains during delivery. As a pregnant woman, I quit smoking, drank milk (yuck, but babies need bones) and I gained birthing skills. Motherhood begins before birth! I did all of that because I was aware I was sharing my body and I respected the baby's right to, and need for, my best efforts. During two deliveries, I had to suddenly shift onto hands and knees. Seconds can mean the difference between life and death; healthy or injured. So, almost everyone here is telling you that they, as strangers, value your child's need for it's Mom to be in optimal form over a choice that makes her "less."

Now, say you ignore all of this and do a chained birth. And, there's a problem. ER. Morgue. Autopsied baby & maybe Mom, too. Child Protective Services. Foster Care. Wake. Funeral. Jail. Court. Prison. Legal bills. Guilt (and rightly so, because it's pre-meditated). Public disgrace. Job loss. Depression. Financial loss. Loss of custody. Baby killers. And the older kids - now known as the Baby-killers' kids - call you into account for the death of their sibling, for their time in foster care, for being that selfish!

I know you asked if any other subs/slaves had these feelings. Nope, never heard of it before. And, to have feelings is fine. Just don't indulge them. I strongly suspect that you are not yet aware of what slavery means, because if sacrificing yourself in loving service to another, does not include the commitment to protect your Master's progeny to the best of your ability, then I can't think of what is going on with you two.

To deliberately choose to limit your ability to respond to your child's needs - why be parents?

OP - My kids deserved my best. They now have kids, so I have a long view here. Your kids aren't being cared for at the same level of dedication that mine were. How do I know that? A mother who lacks the ability to delay gratification to the point of actually wearing chains while she is the one in charge of children, is showing a smallness of heart or a smallness of brain.
-Why, when adults agree that a person in bondage should NEVER be left alone, is your wife in bondage alone? If you want "chained time" then get a sitter and go play. What seems obvious to me is that you both seem to be unaware or complacent about the unnecessary risks here.
-M/s ? I see neither. I'm not meaning to insult you. I just see the lack of knowledge, the lack of priorities and the lack of boundaries to be antithetical to a D/s dynamic of any kind.

Best of luck to you all, especially the kids.

Again, it is my fervent hope that this OP is just BS.

ETA - Please do yourselves and the midwife a favor, and let the midwife read this thread! Then, have that conversation again after the midwife sees how lifestylers view this as a mistake, criminal and selfishly negligent.

< Message edited by TwoHeartsBeatOne -- 3/22/2013 5:52:30 AM >

(in reply to wintermaster)

RE: home birth in chains - 3/22/2013 5:58:48 AM

lizi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Extravagasm

It is fairly established under US law and even CPS that the government does not interfere with what is or is not worn in the home, provided it is not an armament. Chains are sometimes also seen with Gothic look. This acceptance has also been argued to include casual family nudity, though uncommon, and not involved in this OP situation.

Well that's nice. Good to know that the law in our country is always practiced evenly and with exactly measured out responses.

Thank goodness we can all count on everyone having the exact same interpretation of the law, morals, and family situations. I feel much better now knowing that my nosy 80 year old neighbor would assume the exact right response to accidentally witnessing through my window me being tied up and flogged and go merrily on her way with a knowing chuckle, rather than call the police because she feels that she is witnessing a crime against me.

This "acceptance" you speak of sounds nice in theory. From what I have seen in my lifetime of how personal rights are upheld or intruded upon, I would NOT put something as important to me as my own personal freedom, and that of my children, on the line for others to interpret correctly - the world is full of idiots. I would choose to idiot proof my life as much as possible, especially in an area with so much potential for loss and drama.

Btw, associating chains with a 'Gothic look' is very disingenuous knowing that the OP's wife is using them for an external symbol of slavehood and not because she feels like being a goth chick. Not the same things are they? If my young children saw the emo kid down the block with whatever silliness he's sporting that day, I wouldn't worry too much; if they saw nice Mrs. Smith next door floating around in long skirts and scarves and sporting chains around her ankles that would be different...because the intent is different. It's somewhat the norm to be goth, it's not the norm to be a slave. Doesn't matter what spin you put on it, most of the world is going to be more alarmed at Mrs. Smith and wonder if she needs help- thereby bringing in unwanted attention. That's the point of bringing up CPS, other's interpretations of a situation, not what the law states.

(in reply to Extravagasm)

RE: home birth in chains - 3/22/2013 6:16:27 AM

TwoHeartsBeatOne

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https://ncsfreedom.org/

That is a link for the National Coalition for Sexual Freedom. You may want to shoot them an email and ask what they see as potential consequences if you follow through with a chained home birth. I'd mention that you have custody of 2 kids already.

http://www.amnestyusa.org/our-work/issues/poverty-and-human-rights/maternal-health

This is so you may add these facts to your decision-making process, but here's a quote:

Motherhood Shouldn't Be a Death Sentence

Around the world, one woman dies every 90 seconds from complications of pregnancy or childbirth -- that's more than 350,000 women every year.

The vast majority of these deaths are preventable. As Mahmoud Fathalla, past president of the International Federation of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, said:

"Women are not dying of diseases we can't treat... They are dying because societies have yet to make the decision that their lives are worth saving."

99% of maternal deaths occur in developing countries. But maternal mortality is not just a developing-country scandal - in the United States women are at greater risk of dying than in 49 other countries, and African-American women are at almost four times greater risk than white women.

ETA - Amnesty International and the World Health Organization compiled statistics on maternal health. Deliveries with midwives have better outcomes for both mothers and newborns. Don't take my word for it - the link is above. Some "homework" will help you "master" this.

< Message edited by TwoHeartsBeatOne -- 3/22/2013 6:25:51 AM >

(in reply to wintermaster)

RE: home birth in chains - 3/22/2013 7:13:33 AM

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~fast reply~

So have we conclusively shown that Colarme really as, as Maria describes it, "vanilla as fuck?"

All I can say is <insert hysterical hand waving> Think of the Children!!!

I gotta tell you that as the [mostly] vanilla guy on these forums and as a father of two who witnessed both births my general feeling is "the woman who's pushing a watermelon out of her fucking body gets to be chained if she fucking wants to". Insofar as her being chained at home... I haven't bought into the idea that sex is evil so I don't see the rub.

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(in reply to TwoHeartsBeatOne)

RE: home birth in chains - 3/22/2013 7:34:13 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: agent0fchaos

As someone involved in the home birth and midwifery community, I have to wonder what this midwife is thinking signing off on this scenario.

Say something goes wrong. What's your backup plan? Are you prepared to go to the hospital in chains and face the inevitable questions? Most homebirths (and I believe all should) have a backup, emergency plan for if something happens, that usually involves going to a local birthing center or hospital. If something goes that wrong, the time that it takes to take off chains could very realistically be the difference between a positive and a negative outcome.

I support a woman's right to labor and give birth in the manner that suits her, but this pushes me because it gets into the realm of safety of the baby as well as the mom.

I agree. My vote is that this is wank.

I don't know a midwife who would risk her license agreeing to the frivolity (and yes, I mean that word) of permitting a patient to be chained up during a birth, given all the work she is trained to minimize risk to a patient before/during/after birth.

_____________________________

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if there is any reaction, both are transformed.
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(in reply to agent0fchaos)

RE: home birth in chains - 3/22/2013 7:46:14 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wintermaster

That is a fair assessment and fair questions. All I can say is that this is her desire. I do not think that she has to have 24/7 bondage to take on and become a slave. She just likes the feeling of bondage and it is a reminder of her consented status. Even though I said she has spent days in chains, in reality she may only wear them 30-40% of the time only while at home.

Since you are her master, then you should have the final say of how things are run in your household.

In a crisis things often do not go "as planned" so chains that may be easy to get out of, may suddenly become more difficult.
You may want to consider that as you make an informed decision... and seconds can make the difference between a happy and tragic outcome.

Laying aside the obvious safety issues, as for the children, unless you plan on keeping them very socially isolated (which I am sure you understand is wrong), at some point, from a purely practical point of view this will become problematic: a kid will spill the beans to someone and either law enforcement or child protective services will be called in.
And while the whole thing is being sorted out, you will lose custody of your children.
Is that really what you think is best for your family?

Provided you are the one who is calling the shots within your home, that is something you might want to seriously consider before allowing your slave to do whatever the hell she wants to do.

Give her special jewelry: a slave bracelet and/or an anklet with bells on it if she needs physical reminders of her place, but you are begging for trouble if you permit her to continue to be chained at home with kids present.

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(in reply to wintermaster)

RE: home birth in chains - 3/22/2013 8:05:50 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Extravagasm

It is fairly established under US law and even CPS that the government does not interfere with what is or is not worn in the home, provided it is not an armament. Chains are sometimes also seen with Gothic look. This acceptance has also been argued to include casual family nudity, though uncommon, and not involved in this OP situation.

That is a highly misguided response. Freedom of expression has nothing to do with child welfare, my friend.

Think of it this way. If parents kept their kids in chains at home, do you think the authorities would have something to say about it?

< Message edited by Baroana -- 3/22/2013 8:10:16 AM >

(in reply to Extravagasm)

RE: home birth in chains - 3/22/2013 8:36:49 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

~fast reply~

So have we conclusively shown that Colarme really as, as Maria describes it, "vanilla as fuck?"

All I can say is <insert hysterical hand waving> Think of the Children!!!

I gotta tell you that as the [mostly] vanilla guy on these forums and as a father of two who witnessed both births my general feeling is "the woman who's pushing a watermelon out of her fucking body gets to be chained if she fucking wants to". Insofar as her being chained at home... I haven't bought into the idea that sex is evil so I don't see the rub.

I have no issue with how she chooses to give birth. They're using a midwife and I'm assuming they've covered the safety issues, etc.

I do have an issue with his wife wearing chains in front of the kids. Not only is it inappropriate, but I'm willing to bet it will lead to an uncomfortable situation in the future.

_____________________________

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(in reply to JeffBC)

RE: home birth in chains - 3/22/2013 8:41:53 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wintermaster

We have wandered a little from the original question, but I will state that no children will see the birth. Our first child was not around for the second child's in-hospital birth. As far as the appropriateness of exposing children to her bondage, she simply tells them that they are her jewelry that daddy gave her (no different than the ornate bracelets, necklaces and ankles that many women wear). She wears normal clothes and mostly long skirts which make them less obvious. Yes, we may have to sit down and talk to the children about our lifestyle someday, but how is that different than a same sex couple having to discuss their lifestyle to adoptive or biological children. The chains are only things the children see from our relationship everything else is kept in the bedroom. She does not call me master: "honey" or "sweetie" are her titles of respect for me.

Yeah, this makes sense. This is why it is called "lifestyle". This is fairly normal for such households. Nothing to see here.

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(in reply to wintermaster)

RE: home birth in chains - 3/22/2013 8:45:08 AM

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quote:

my general feeling is "the woman who's pushing a watermelon out of her fucking body gets to be chained if she fucking wants to".

Damn right. It's her body, right?

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"We master Our world."

(in reply to JeffBC)

RE: home birth in chains - 3/22/2013 8:48:49 AM

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quote:

I do have an issue with his wife wearing chains in front of the kids. Not only is it inappropriate, but I'm willing to bet it will lead to an uncomfortable situation in the future.

What about nudists and their children?

_____________________________

"We master Our world."

(in reply to OsideGirl)

RE: home birth in chains - 3/22/2013 8:56:36 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas

quote:

I do have an issue with his wife wearing chains in front of the kids. Not only is it inappropriate, but I'm willing to bet it will lead to an uncomfortable situation in the future.

What about nudists and their children?

My personal view is that I'm not really comfortable with it. But, I understand that they view that we are born naked and therefore it is how nature intended us to be. But, I bet their kids grow up with less body issues than most of the mainstream.

That is different than wearing chains as proof of "slavery".

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to Arturas)

RE: home birth in chains - 3/22/2013 9:02:24 AM

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~fast reply~

Wow - has this topic ever push buttons! And I thought men wearing women's panties was at the top of the Outrage-O-Meter! Little did I know there were so many rules to having children. Boy, they must be fragile! We have to protect them from germs, dirt, filth - oh, and the germs, dirt and filth of our chosen lifestyle. God forbid we allow them to have even a glimpse of a woman being submissive...their classmates will ridicule them, the teachers will report them and the authorities will be knockin' on the door shortly.

I applaud wintermaster's wife for wanting to incorporate and express her submission during a most profound and important event in her and her master's life. If I were her master, I would be moved and proud (and probably blown away) by such a loving act. I see it as a woman expressing the beauty of her role: a loyal, dedicated partner with the power to give birth to a family the two of them have made together. I've heard women say that the most profound thing a couple can do is to raise a child together. It sure sounds to me like wintermaster and his wife are doing the job just fine. Her desire to wear the symbols of their relationship during childbirth - her chains - expresses her love of her role and thus her master. How could she express a love and commitment to 'her place' any better? I think her wishes are awesome, and I hope she does it.

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(in reply to OsideGirl)

RE: home birth in chains - 3/22/2013 9:08:35 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

~fast reply~

So have we conclusively shown that Colarme really as, as Maria describes it, "vanilla as fuck?"

All I can say is <insert hysterical hand waving> Think of the Children!!!

I gotta tell you that as the [mostly] vanilla guy on these forums and as a father of two who witnessed both births my general feeling is "the woman who's pushing a watermelon out of her fucking body gets to be chained if she fucking wants to". Insofar as her being chained at home... I haven't bought into the idea that sex is evil so I don't see the rub.

Um, no, I have barely mentioned the children besides the one being born.

And a few of us have mentioned the potential medical complications

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Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
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(in reply to JeffBC)

RE: home birth in chains - 3/22/2013 9:13:12 AM

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quote:

How could she express a love and commitment to 'her place' any better? I think her wishes are awesome, and I hope she does it.

And chains are the only way to do so?

Damn, for a community that "claims" to be inventive, there sure are some people who will jump on a band wagon in a skinny minute to claim that

"Slaviest Slave of the Year Award."

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to CarolBC)

RE: home birth in chains - 3/22/2013 9:28:06 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas

quote:

I do have an issue with his wife wearing chains in front of the kids. Not only is it inappropriate, but I'm willing to bet it will lead to an uncomfortable situation in the future.

What about nudists and their children?

My personal view is that I'm not really comfortable with it. But, I understand that they view that we are born naked and therefore it is how nature intended us to be. But, I bet their kids grow up with less body issues than most of the mainstream.

That is different than wearing chains as proof of "slavery".

We, as naturists, have never hidden ourselves from the kids.
And although we don't do anything overtly sexual or extreme in front of the kids, they certainly are very aware of what is going on when we 'play' - either with just ourselves or with others.

And from a personal PoV, I can honestly say that my kids have grown to be very open-minded and extremely mature in their outlook on life.
She is now 19 going on 30 and he is 18 going on 25.
Both are very adult-thinking and have no body issues whatsoever.
We can talk about any and all subjects (even taboo ones) without the sniggers and embarassments.
Heck, we had a discussion when she had her first sexual experience and he spoke to me about a boil that had come up on his dick!!

I think there is far too much molly-coddling of our kids in all aspects of life.
It would be a fair comment to say that we are a very liberal-minded family and it isn't everyone's cup of tea.
But I'd sooner that than having kids that are uber-sheltered and can't think for themselves or are too embarassed/ashamed to approach someone if they have a problem.

That said, I think the chains bit is a bit far and would have used something less hindering than chains without lessening slave aspect.
But what do I know?? lol. I'm just a liberal parent

(in reply to OsideGirl)

RE: home birth in chains - 3/22/2013 9:35:39 AM

AthenaSurrenders

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

How could she express a love and commitment to 'her place' any better? I think her wishes are awesome, and I hope she does it.

And chains are the only way to do so?

Damn, for a community that "claims" to be inventive, there sure are some people who will jump on a band wagon in a skinny minute to claim that

"Slaviest Slave of the Year Award."

I expressed my submission during childbirth by giving birth in a hospital, as per my husband's desire. I wanted a homebirth (in the UK that is considered safe and increasingly normal, for those of you who are against all home births, I was also healthy and less than ten minutes from the hospital). He said no. Voila. Submission.

Jeff: I actually think that the chains would be more of a pain in the arse than a risk, but as I said at the beginning, if they can do so safely it's up to them. But if it makes me 'vanilla as fuck' to find it inappropriate to be in bondage around your small children, I'll wear that title proudly.

_____________________________

Being your slave, what should I do but tend
Upon the hours and times of your desire?

(in reply to tazzygirl)

RE: home birth in chains - 3/22/2013 9:43:19 AM

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How do nudists keep their names off the sex offender list? Many are forced to register on the same list as rapists for "indecent exposure." A girl I went to school with is forced to register as a sex offender for indecent exposure. I read an article about a man forced to register because he was caught urinating outside.

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(in reply to freedomdwarf1)

RE: home birth in chains - 3/22/2013 9:49:04 AM

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I would imagine the nudists do it by not keeping any pens clipped to their body parts, then they don't have to sign up.

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)

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All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Submissive >> RE: home birth in chains

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