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ORIGINAL: DomKen

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ORIGINAL: BitYakin

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ORIGINAL: DomKen

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ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror

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ORIGINAL: DomKen
I mean the girlfriend who came across as sympathetic to the jury and made O'Mara look mean. Keep in mind this is not a bench trial but one in front of a jury. Defense lawyers who beat up witnesses the way O'Mara did have to find a way to appear to not be an SoB or the jury will ignore pretty much anything he has to say. So far O'Mara's attempt with the knock joke seems to be less than successful.

Also keep in mind the last witnesses the jury will hear are the prosecution's rebuttal witnesses and the last argument they will hear is the prosecutor and if he is any good at all his closing will be "Zimmerman lied about this, Zimmerman lied about that and Zimmerman lied about this other thing" and that will certainly be a major component in deliberations.

Intriguing. What you saw as a sympathetic witness, the rest of the country saw as at best, an idiot and at worst, an outright liar.

No, That is what most white people who have no contact with blacks who speak in dialect thought. The rest of us saw a pretty average, if not too bright, girl.

BS, my next door neighbor is a black man, he hold BBQ's often with his black friends and I attend often... I can state flatly that the type of speech she discribed is NOT AVERAGE. my neighbor would just as soon bite his tongue off as speak like that.
the things she said and said he said is the verbage of common gutter trash regardless of race!

PS, no I do not live in the SUBURBS, I live deep in the inner city where you'd expect more of such behaior to exist!
also I am a plumber and I deal with black people almost every single day, and in some pretty rough areas too!

St. Louis must be an odd city. here I hear black dialect all the time. I heard it growing up in Atlanta and heard it in D.C. when I lived there.

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ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

How about answering the question, instead of changing the subject and running away?

Exactly what is the name, and or cite for the US Supreme Court ruling that supports your assertion that a defendant must disprove even the wildest allegations or speculation, including media hype and gossip, *in addition* to the fear for their life standard? That if they make the tiniest mistake on anything, ever, then the jury can ignore even proven facts?
Because last time I checked, such speculation had to pass rather stringent tests.

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ORIGINAL: BitYakin

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ORIGINAL: DomKen

St. Louis must be an odd city. here I hear black dialect all the time. I heard it growing up in Atlanta and heard it in D.C. when I lived there.

so you think its ODD, that black people can speak like civilized educated normal people?

and to what do you artibute this oddity?

BTW, I hear people talk like that here too, but its not exclusive to blacks, I'd say more exclusive to gutter trash than race

I could put you on the phone with plenty of white people, who with your preconcieved notion of what black people speak like you'd probably assume were black

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but the attack had to be such that the reasonable man would have feared imminent death or great bodily harm and the ME destroyed that.

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his credibility is definitely in question.

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ORIGINAL: DomKen

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ORIGINAL: BitYakin

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ORIGINAL: DomKen

St. Louis must be an odd city. here I hear black dialect all the time. I heard it growing up in Atlanta and heard it in D.C. when I lived there.

so you think its ODD, that black people can speak like civilized educated normal people?

and to what do you artibute this oddity?

BTW, I hear people talk like that here too, but its not exclusive to blacks, I'd say more exclusive to gutter trash than race

I could put you on the phone with plenty of white people, who with your preconcieved notion of what black people speak like you'd probably assume were black

That's a nice strawman you erected. did you have fun tearing it down?

The girl's speaks in what is commonly called black dialect. I made no claims about all black people or anything of the like. You claimed you didn't hear dialect in St. Louis, which I find impossible having been there, so I made fun of your silly claim.

BTW just because a person speaks dialect that does not make them "gutter trash" it just means that is how they learned to speak or is the language used by their peer group. It is doubtful that you speak exactly proper English with your peers either you just don't think of it as dialect.

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ORIGINAL: truckinslave

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his credibility is definitely in question.

The credibility of every witness is always in question. People believe some people and not others. Human nature at work.
Z's inconsistencies have been pooh-poohed by the cops.
His willingness to answer questions the night of the incident, and his volunteering to do a walk-through the next day speak volumes about his credibility.
Look at the guy. Does he look smart enough, does he seem an actor skilled enough, to make all this up?
I don't think so.
GZ as criminal mastermind does not compute.

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ORIGINAL: truckinslave

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his credibility is definitely in question.

The credibility of every witness is always in question. People believe some people and not others. Human nature at work.
Z's inconsistencies have been pooh-poohed by the cops.
His willingness to answer questions the night of the incident, and his volunteering to do a walk-through the next day speak volumes about his credibility.
Look at the guy. Does he look smart enough, does he seem an actor skilled enough, to make all this up?
I don't think so.
GZ as criminal mastermind does not compute.

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ORIGINAL: DomKen
As to the criminal mastermind, consider the case the prosecution built, it is established fact that Zimmerman was very familiar with the Florida self defense and SYG laws. No one saw the altercation begin, Zimmerman's statements are not consistent with the evidence. Zimmerman's injuries are a couple of scratches and a bloody nose (which the ME says could have come from one punch and a single strike of his head on the concrete). That's building a picture that maybe Zimmerman over reacted and shot Martin or got mad when he got knocked down and shot him and then fit his story to the law he knows very well.

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

A polite society doesnt act or react with violence? Just proving your statement wrong. Historically, wife beating, duels, rape were all a part of "polite society" unless you want to try and dismiss those as "something of the past". But I would hope you would not be that silly.

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ORIGINAL: igor2003

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ORIGINAL: truckinslave

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his credibility is definitely in question.

The credibility of every witness is always in question. People believe some people and not others. Human nature at work.
Z's inconsistencies have been pooh-poohed by the cops.
His willingness to answer questions the night of the incident, and his volunteering to do a walk-through the next day speak volumes about his credibility.
Look at the guy. Does he look smart enough, does he seem an actor skilled enough, to make all this up?
I don't think so.
GZ as criminal mastermind does not compute.

No, he doesn't seem smart enough. That's why his story kept changing. For instance, in his first statement to Singleton, as well as to others he said Martin sucker punched him and he fell down IMMEDIATELY on his back and Martin jumped on and started wailing on him. The next day at the walk through he realized that Martin's body was some 40 - 45 feet away from where he said he was "attacked" and his story changed to...oh...well...maybe he stumbled around for a while before falling. Bullshit. That's only one of many examples.

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

A polite society doesnt act or react with violence? Just proving your statement wrong. Historically, wife beating, duels, rape were all a part of "polite society" unless you want to try and dismiss those as "something of the past". But I would hope you would not be that silly.

And all are illegal.

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

He won't because that doesn't change the reasonable man standard. You have to keep in mind Zimmerman cannot claim self defense because the attack could have caused death (he could have died simply from the fall, if he did fall) but the attack had to be such that the reasonable man would have feared imminent death or great bodily harm and the ME destroyed that.


So the fact that he could have died from the fall and by extension any following blow means he had no reasonable fear of injury?

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ORIGINAL: DomKen

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

He won't because that doesn't change the reasonable man standard. You have to keep in mind Zimmerman cannot claim self defense because the attack could have caused death (he could have died simply from the fall, if he did fall) but the attack had to be such that the reasonable man would have feared imminent death or great bodily harm and the ME destroyed that.


So the fact that he could have died from the fall and by extension any following blow means he had no reasonable fear of injury?

Do you not understand the reasonable man standard? In this case the facts show that Zimmerman got punched in the nose, someone wound up on the ground and his head hit the concrete once just hard enough to break skin. No reasonable person would fear imminent death or great bodily harm from that.

That's why he had to claim, in the later versions of his tale, that Martin said he was going to kill him and tried to take his gun. And now that the jury knows he tried to conceal the fact that he was intimately familiar with Florida's laws on the matter it looks more and more like he lied about every detail of the encounter.

If he is convicted it will probably be because he lied during the Hannity interview.

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ORIGINAL: DomKen
In this case the facts show that Zimmerman got punched in the nose, someone wound up on the ground and his head hit the concrete once just hard enough to break skin. No reasonable person would fear imminent death or great bodily harm from that.