RE: Zimmerman Con't / Predict the Verdict

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[Poll]

Zimmerman Con't / Predict the Verdict

Zimmerman will be acquited, and justice will have been served

34% (12)

Zimmerman will be aquitted, but justice will not have been served.

17% (6)

Zimmerman will be rightfully convicted.

14% (5)

Zimmerman will be wrongfully convicted.

2% (1)

I can't predict the verdict, but I feel Zimmerman is innocent.

14% (5)

I can't predict the verdict, but I feel Zimmerman is guilty

17% (6)

Total Votes : 35

(last vote on : 7/4/2013 5:06:15 PM)
(Poll will run till: -- )

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RE: Zimmerman Con't / Predict the Verdict - 7/3/2013 10:24:26 PM

DarqueMirror

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
I mean the girlfriend who came across as sympathetic to the jury and made O'Mara look mean. Keep in mind this is not a bench trial but one in front of a jury. Defense lawyers who beat up witnesses the way O'Mara did have to find a way to appear to not be an SoB or the jury will ignore pretty much anything he has to say. So far O'Mara's attempt with the knock joke seems to be less than successful.

Also keep in mind the last witnesses the jury will hear are the prosecution's rebuttal witnesses and the last argument they will hear is the prosecutor and if he is any good at all his closing will be "Zimmerman lied about this, Zimmerman lied about that and Zimmerman lied about this other thing" and that will certainly be a major component in deliberations.

Intriguing. What you saw as a sympathetic witness, the rest of the country saw as at best, an idiot and at worst, an outright liar.

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Post #: 41

RE: Zimmerman Con't / Predict the Verdict - 7/3/2013 10:27:29 PM

MrRodgers

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Martin still must be given a right of passage and an assumed right of a presumption of innocence no matter what given that at that point neither life, limb or property was in danger.

But Zimmerman cannot be given the same presumption of innocence?

Were Martin on trial for assault I would be agreeing with you, it is Zimmerman who is on trial and it is the defendant who must be given the presumption of innocence.

But Zimmerman isn't innocent..,he took out his gun and took a life. The jury is simply charged with deciding if it is murder or not. He didn't arrest, detain, he instigated the confrontation.

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Post #: 42

RE: Zimmerman Con't / Predict the Verdict - 7/3/2013 10:37:57 PM

DarqueMirror

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
But Zimmerman isn't innocent..,he took out his gun and took a life. The jury is simply charged with deciding if it is murder or not. He didn't arrest, detain, he instigated the confrontation.

Odd how you can claim he instigated it after all this time. Instigation of a verbal confrontation is not something that should be met with violence. Violence, however, should be met with violence. Martin chose to attack. That's not how people behave in polite society.

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Post #: 43

RE: Zimmerman Con't / Predict the Verdict - 7/3/2013 10:41:09 PM

BamaD

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
But Zimmerman isn't innocent..,he took out his gun and took a life. The jury is simply charged with deciding if it is murder or not. He didn't arrest, detain, he instigated the confrontation.

Odd how you can claim he instigated it after all this time. Instigation of a verbal confrontation is not something that should be met with violence. Violence, however, should be met with violence. Martin chose to attack. That's not how people behave in polite society.

There is no evidence that Zimmerman engaged in violence before firing the shot there is absolute proof that Martin did.
The most telling piece of evidence was that Zimmerman was glad when told the incident had been filmed.

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Post #: 44

RE: Zimmerman Con't / Predict the Verdict - 7/3/2013 10:42:39 PM

DarqueMirror

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
There is no evidence that Zimmerman engaged in violence before firing the shot there is absolute proof that Martin did.
The most telling piece of evidence was that Zimmerman was glad when told the incident had been filmed.

I know. But try explaining that to the others who are ignoring the truth.

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Post #: 45

RE: Zimmerman Con't / Predict the Verdict - 7/3/2013 10:47:57 PM

BamaD

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
There is no evidence that Zimmerman engaged in violence before firing the shot there is absolute proof that Martin did.
The most telling piece of evidence was that Zimmerman was glad when told the incident had been filmed.

I know. But try explaining that to the others who are ignoring the truth.

"There is none so blind as he who will not see"

edited cause I can't type

< Message edited by BamaD -- 7/3/2013 10:49:42 PM >

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People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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Post #: 46

RE: Zimmerman Con't / Predict the Verdict - 7/3/2013 11:04:00 PM

tazzygirl

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quote:

Instigation of a verbal confrontation is not something that should be met with violence. Violence, however, should be met with violence. Martin chose to attack. That's not how people behave in polite society.

Creating a Veil of Silence? Politeness and Marital Violence in the English Household

Polite Societies Foster Violent Drinking Cultures, Says Anthropologist

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Post #: 47

RE: Zimmerman Con't / Predict the Verdict - 7/3/2013 11:05:43 PM

DarqueMirror

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

Instigation of a verbal confrontation is not something that should be met with violence. Violence, however, should be met with violence. Martin chose to attack. That's not how people behave in polite society.

Creating a Veil of Silence? Politeness and Marital Violence in the English Household

Polite Societies Foster Violent Drinking Cultures, Says Anthropologist

More obfuscation hmm? What the hell does any of that have to do with a thug who wants to punch someone over words?

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Post #: 48

RE: Zimmerman Con't / Predict the Verdict - 7/3/2013 11:09:15 PM

tazzygirl

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A polite society doesnt act or react with violence? Just proving your statement wrong. Historically, wife beating, duels, rape were all a part of "polite society" unless you want to try and dismiss those as "something of the past". But I would hope you would not be that silly.

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
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Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Post #: 49

RE: Zimmerman Con't / Predict the Verdict - 7/3/2013 11:53:01 PM

DarqueMirror

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

A polite society doesnt act or react with violence? Just proving your statement wrong. Historically, wife beating, duels, rape were all a part of "polite society" unless you want to try and dismiss those as "something of the past". But I would hope you would not be that silly.

Here we go. Rape is a duel and a beaten wife is a robbed bank.

Riiiight.

You realize there was honor, code and protocol in a duel right? Some thug didn't just walk up and start beating someone's ass.

As for the rape and wife beating. This case is about neither. So that's irrelevant.

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Post #: 50

RE: Zimmerman Con't / Predict the Verdict - 7/4/2013 12:43:33 AM

Raiikun

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Despite the howling by certain parties the prosecution did build a case for the elements of 2nd degree murder. They also showed that Zimmerman lied, differing accounts of whether or not he had lost control of the gun and his interview with Hannity where he lied about knowing the states self defense and SYG laws. Juries tend to convict liars.

The defense has a real problem, if they put Zimmerman on the stand he gets cross examined which would bring in the prescription drugs, history of violence etc. etc. or stick to experts and character witnesses and hope they can convince the jury that Zimmerman's lies does not mean he lied about what happened that night. And in cases like this the jury does like to hear from the defendant.

Of course no lawyer in his right mind lets Zimmerman testify so I think its 50/50 conviction or hung jury.

Are you kidding Zimmerman should be paying the prosecution, directed verdict is in order.

It did look that way until the last two days. The videos of him changing his version of events and the video of him on Hannity flat out lying about not knowing Florida self defense or SYG law put him in a bad spot. Juries almost always convict liars it is one of the basics of trials. It is one of the reasons any decent criminal defense lawyer will tell you to never ever talk to the police.

Also the medical examiner calling the scratches on the back of his insignificant and the result of likely a single blow on the concrete, not the many bashings he claims in his interview, both puts more doubt on his veracity but also casts doubts on his claim that a reasonable person would have feared for his life in the same situation.

Of course, the two detectives who interrogated George both testified that George's variations are normal, especially after trauma, and didn't cause them any concern. The State has not disproven self defense, or even shown it was likely it wasn't self defense.

Though not a fan of Jose Baez, I agree with him on this: He says the evidence is so weak, a first year law student could get George acquitted.

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Post #: 51

RE: Zimmerman Con't / Predict the Verdict - 7/4/2013 12:52:49 AM

Raiikun

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

If Zimmerman isn't acquitted, it will be a travesty.

Zimmerman could just have easily been parking his car to walk to HIS home when saint thug decided that he was being "followed".

The bone of contention is the physical violence/Zimmerman reasonably believing he was in danger of death or bodily injury. That's where things went tits up.

Sorry but I come from a place where just about any hour of the day or night, you're walking in front of or behind somebody. If that's cause to get a wild hair up one's ass, I seriously suggest avoiding a vacation in NYC.

Peace and comfort,

Michael

Hardly when you know this is clearly not the case. Zimmerman was a guard on the beat, armed and dangerous. Soon as Zimmerman got out of his car it was he who instigated the confrontation.

Martin still must be given a right of passage and an assumed right of a presumption of innocence no matter what given that at that point neither life, limb or property was in danger.

Getting out of a vehicle is not legal provocation.

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Post #: 52

RE: Zimmerman Con't / Predict the Verdict - 7/4/2013 12:56:57 AM

Raiikun

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
So Zimmerman, the proven serial liar, claims. The girlfriend says otherwise.

You mean the girlfriend who was absolutely torn apart on the stand and made to look A) stupid and B) as though she was a defense witness?

You mean the same girlfriend who admitted that Martin used racial slurs (incorrect ones at that) about Zimmerman, prompting every half-wit journalist and Martin's own family proclaim this "wasn't about race," despite proclaiming the exact opposite for over a year?

That girlfriend?

Yeah, I'll side with the man who showed abject relief when told (untruthfully) that the whole incident was caught on video.

I mean the girlfriend who came across as sympathetic to the jury and made O'Mara look mean. Keep in mind this is not a bench trial but one in front of a jury. Defense lawyers who beat up witnesses the way O'Mara did have to find a way to appear to not be an SoB or the jury will ignore pretty much anything he has to say. So far O'Mara's attempt with the knock joke seems to be less than successful.

Also keep in mind the last witnesses the jury will hear are the prosecution's rebuttal witnesses and the last argument they will hear is the prosecutor and if he is any good at all his closing will be "Zimmerman lied about this, Zimmerman lied about that and Zimmerman lied about this other thing" and that will certainly be a major component in deliberations.

Just as an FYI, O'Mara didn't cross examine Rachel, Rachel wasn't Trayvon's girlfriend, and O'Mara didn't give the opening or tell the knock knock joke.

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Post #: 53

RE: Zimmerman Con't / Predict the Verdict - 7/4/2013 2:18:05 AM

truckinslave

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quote:

Also the medical examiner calling the scratches on the back of his insignificant and the result of likely a single blow on the concrete, not the many bashings he claims in his interview, both puts more doubt on his veracity but also casts doubts on his claim that a reasonable person would have feared for his life in the same situation.

Yeah. The ME hurt him; I think she went too far but I'm not sure the jury does. If I were O'mara I would have started my cross by giving every member of the jury a copy of the photo of Zimmerman with his grotesquely swollen nose, giving her the same photo, and saying: "Excuse me Doctor. I must be wrong but I thought I heard you say that GZs injuries were "extremely insignificant".

Now, were I him, I would be looking for every case I could find where men died being pounded by someone straddling them, paying particular attention to those whose external wounds were superficial. Having found them, and the relevant photos, I might recall her before calling my own medical experts. "Seriously, Doc, you called GZs injuries extremely insignificant, remember; yet the deceased from bumfuck in 1983, the poor sod whose picture you hold, died from such an attack and his exterior wounds were less pronounced that Georgie's"

And the game goes on

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Post #: 54

RE: Zimmerman Con't / Predict the Verdict - 7/4/2013 2:23:18 AM

truckinslave

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quote:

So that's irrelevant.

I thought it was comic relief.
That's sure as hell relative

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1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

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Post #: 55

RE: Zimmerman Con't / Predict the Verdict - 7/4/2013 2:37:08 AM

Rule

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
A polite society doesnt act or react with violence? Just proving your statement wrong. Historically, wife beating, duels, rape were all a part of "polite society"

Politeness is one of the means to reduce violence in cultures of warriors / savages. Therefore any population that is extremly polite is highly suspect as consisting of less evolved, more primitive humans.

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Post #: 56

RE: Zimmerman Con't / Predict the Verdict - 7/4/2013 2:55:26 AM

DaddySatyr

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Thank you for reposting this, Darque

quote:

A polite society doesnt act or react with violence? Just proving your statement wrong. Historically, wife beating, duels, rape were all a part of "polite society" unless you want to try and dismiss those as "something of the past". But I would hope you would not be that silly.

This almost sounds like someone is making a case for wife beating, duels, and rape.

I would never consider a society that encouraged those things to be polite in any way. I would hope all rational people would be similarly offended by such a society.

I, for one, would certainly hope that such things would be things of the past. Do these type of things still go on, today? Yes. Have I ever claimed that we're a polite society? No. That's just one of the reasons we should all be carrying weapons.

Guns make (other) people a lot more polite.

Peace and comfort,

Michael

< Message edited by DaddySatyr -- 7/4/2013 2:57:33 AM >

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Post #: 57

RE: Zimmerman Con't / Predict the Verdict - 7/4/2013 3:47:48 AM

Rastimmipitwax

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Methinks you missed the quotes around "Polite Society". Which still apply today, when you consider most of the societies around the world. Even modern US society (among others) is little more than a veneer.

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RE: Zimmerman Con't / Predict the Verdict - 7/4/2013 4:14:30 AM

DaddySatyr

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rastimmipitwax

Methinks you missed the quotes around "Polite Society". Which still apply today, when you consider most of the societies around the world. Even modern US society (among others) is little more than a veneer.

And I think you missed:

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
I, for one, would certainly hope that such things would be things of the past. Do these type of things still go on, today? Yes. Have I ever claimed that we're a polite society? No.

Peace and comfort,

Michael

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Post #: 59

RE: Zimmerman Con't / Predict the Verdict - 7/4/2013 4:19:49 AM

DomKen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
I mean the girlfriend who came across as sympathetic to the jury and made O'Mara look mean. Keep in mind this is not a bench trial but one in front of a jury. Defense lawyers who beat up witnesses the way O'Mara did have to find a way to appear to not be an SoB or the jury will ignore pretty much anything he has to say. So far O'Mara's attempt with the knock joke seems to be less than successful.

Also keep in mind the last witnesses the jury will hear are the prosecution's rebuttal witnesses and the last argument they will hear is the prosecutor and if he is any good at all his closing will be "Zimmerman lied about this, Zimmerman lied about that and Zimmerman lied about this other thing" and that will certainly be a major component in deliberations.

Intriguing. What you saw as a sympathetic witness, the rest of the country saw as at best, an idiot and at worst, an outright liar.

No, That is what most white people who have no contact with blacks who speak in dialect thought. The rest of us saw a pretty average, if not too bright, girl.

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Post #: 60