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RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/12/2013 3:29:00 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

On paper? Or after an American jury does their work?


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

FR

Seriously, given the goal that the defence only needs to sow an element of doubt, how many people think Zimmerman's going to go down for this?




After an American jury does its work. I'm not familiar enough with the dynamics of big court cases in the USA to have a handle on that. That's what I'm really asking about.

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Profile   Post #: 81
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/12/2013 3:29:28 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

FR

Seriously, given the goal that the defence only needs to sow an element of doubt, how many people think Zimmerman's going to go down for this?

Who really thinks the prosecution proved anything except that they had a good reason not to prosecute in the first place?

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 82
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/12/2013 3:29:57 PM   
MasterCaneman


Posts: 3842
Joined: 3/21/2013
Status: offline 		You're probably right, but we'll never know.

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Age and treachery will always overcome youth and ambition.

The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting. ~ Sun Tzu

Goddess Wrangler



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Profile   Post #: 83
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/12/2013 3:30:39 PM   
Yachtie


Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

FR

Seriously, given the goal that the defence only needs to sow an element of doubt, how many people think Zimmerman's going to go down for this?



One's doubt is another's certainty. I'd not give odds either way.

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 84
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/12/2013 3:35:01 PM   
RacerJim


Posts: 1583
Joined: 1/1/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

quote:

Zimmerman wasn't "on duty" and he had a concealed carry permit.
He started carrying because of vicious dogs in the area and the police told him a taser wouldn't stop a big dog. All a matter of record.


He decided to carry a gun on "neighborhood watch" because of vicious dogs?
Are you telling me the police gave him permission to run after people playing a broke down rambo with a gun?


Thats they way they want to protray it.

Hardly.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 85
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/12/2013 3:36:29 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RacerJim


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

quote:

Zimmerman wasn't "on duty" and he had a concealed carry permit.
He started carrying because of vicious dogs in the area and the police told him a taser wouldn't stop a big dog. All a matter of record.


He decided to carry a gun on "neighborhood watch" because of vicious dogs?
Are you telling me the police gave him permission to run after people playing a broke down rambo with a gun?


Thats they way they want to protray it.

Hardly.

Note that Marini's post was a distortion of my post.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to RacerJim)
Profile   Post #: 86
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/12/2013 3:38:58 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

Hardly.


So you are saying those who say Z didnt have a right to carry his gun are right?

Wow, how generous of you.

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 7/12/2013 3:41:23 PM >

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 87
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/12/2013 3:41:12 PM   
Powergamz1


Posts: 1927
Joined: 9/3/2011
Status: offline 		I posted about jury nullification a couple of times in the other thread. They could vote either way, for a number of reasons known only to them.

On paper, the prosecution failed to meet its burden. What they 'filled in the gaps' with contradicted reality or earlier statements too many times (3 shots, shirt with a red and black pattern, Martin on his father's doorstep, 'You got me' on the telephone', etc.)

They didn't fail badly enough that the judge laughed them out of the courtroom, they turned in a C minus effort.


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

On paper? Or after an American jury does their work?


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

FR

Seriously, given the goal that the defence only needs to sow an element of doubt, how many people think Zimmerman's going to go down for this?




After an American jury does its work. I'm not familiar enough with the dynamics of big court cases in the USA to have a handle on that. That's what I'm really asking about.



_____________________________

"DOMA is unconstitutional as a deprivation of the equal liberty of persons that is protected by the Fifth Amendment" Anthony McLeod Kennedy

" About damn time...wooot!!' Me

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/12/2013 3:41:24 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

Hardly.


So you are saying those who say Z didnt have a right to carry his gun are wrong?

Wow, how generous of you.

He wasn't on duty with neighborhood watch and he had a concealed carry permit which means he did have the right to carry a gun.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/12/2013 3:42:16 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

He wasn't on duty with neighborhood watch and he had a concealed carry permit which means he did have the right to carry a gun.


I had to edit mine to say right. Of course he had the right to carry his gun. I never said he didnt. Others have.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/12/2013 3:42:37 PM   
Edwynn


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All fine and well, but I was the scrawniest 12 yr. old kid (almost) in a Jr. HS of 900 kids, got my head bashed into a locker on a semi-regular basis, had to go do the paper route amongst viscous dogs in the afternoon after all that, along with dealing with 14 yr. old neighborhood thugs, etc.

I never once thought of getting a gun, but maybe that's just because I was stupid or something.

Or maybe I just considered, at that young age, that you take the good with the bad.

I can't believe what a world of suck-ass pussies all these putative "He-Men!" have become.

I've had my place broken into on several occasions, two of them when I was in house.

I once stepped out of the shower, dripping wet, confronted a "young black male" who outweighed me by at least 30 pounds (not the least bit difficult in this case), and I just said; "What are you doing?"

He turned tail and ran, after saying something about "looking for firewood."

It was all in the attitude and approach. He was in the wrong, I was in the right. Of course that won't work every time, but I just got tired of being 'scared' all the time in my 'scrawny youth,' and that, apparently, came across in that moment, along with my well displayed seriously sharp elbows. All I know is that it came to mind that I wish I could have run as fast from the 'bullies' as he ran away from my apartment on that day.

If a freakin' 12 yr. old (and hear this, I certainly wasn't the only one beat by kids ALOT bigger than me) could deal with vicious dogs and 14-16 yr. old bullies (OK, so I didn't always deal with it perfectly), don't give me this crap about a fat 28 yr. old being such a pussie that he had to shoot the 17 yr. old that he was stupid enough to follow so closely as to almost guarantee an entanglement.

But, given all the crap I had to put up with when there was no adult, not to mention even a gun, to deal with on a semi-regular basis as much or more than GZ had to deal with on that ONE occasion, all I can do is laugh my ass off as the PUSSIES come out of the woodwork in defense of the all-time PUSSIE, Zimmerman.





< Message edited by Edwynn -- 7/12/2013 3:43:35 PM >

(in reply to MasterCaneman)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/12/2013 3:42:42 PM   
RacerJim


Posts: 1583
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

I was about to post on Zimmerman III when I found out that it had been locked. I think that you have hit upon the solution here, and I hope the trial experiment goes well. (pardon the pun....)


Its unmoderated because people cant seem to stop with the personal attacks and I am sure the Admins are sick of having to play clean up when someone attacks someone else for stupid shit... like being a homophobe.

Or stupid shit like when someone attacks someone else for not agreeing with them.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/12/2013 3:43:36 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Something you know a lot about

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to RacerJim)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/12/2013 3:45:46 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

He wasn't on duty with neighborhood watch and he had a concealed carry permit which means he did have the right to carry a gun.


I had to edit mine to say right. Of course he had the right to carry his gun. I never said he didnt. Others have.

I never said you did your turn to calm down.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/12/2013 3:47:02 PM   
Powergamz1


Posts: 1927
Joined: 9/3/2011
Status: offline 		OK.... do you really think that when the self defense laws were written it was so they could protect pussies like Zimmerman from their well deserved fates?


quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn


All fine and well, but I was the scrawniest 12 yr. old kid (almost) in a Jr. HS of 900 kids, got my head bashed into a locker on a semi-regular basis, had to go do the paper route amongst viscous dogs in the afternoon after all that, along with dealing with 14 yr. old neighborhood thugs, etc.

I never once thought of getting a gun, but maybe that's just because I was stupid or something.

Or maybe I just considered, at that young age, that you take the good with the bad.

I can't believe what a world of suck-ass pussies all these putative "He-Men!" have become.

I've had my place broken into on several occasions, two of them when I was in house.

I once stepped out of the shower, dripping wet, confronted a "young black male" who outweighed me by at least 30 pounds (not the least bit difficult in this case), and I just said; "What are you doing?"

He turned tail and ran, after saying something about "looking for firewood."

It was all in the attitude and approach. He was in the wrong, I was in the right. Of course that won't work every time, but I just got tired of being 'scared' all the time in my 'scrawny youth,' and that, apparently, came across in that moment, along with my well displayed seriously sharp elbows. All I know is that it came to mind that I wish I could have run as fast from the 'bullies' as he ran away from my apartment on that day.

If a freakin' 12 yr. old (and hear this, I certainly wasn't the only one beat by kids ALOT bigger than me) could deal with vicious dogs and 14-16 yr. old bullies (OK, so I didn't always deal with it perfectly), don't give me this crap about a fat 28 yr. old being such a pussie that he had to shoot the 17 yr. old that he was stupid enough to follow so closely as to almost guarantee an entanglement.

But, given all the crap I had to put up with when there was no adult, not to mention even a gun, to deal with on a semi-regular basis as much or more than GZ had to deal with on that ONE occasion, all I can do is laugh my ass off as the PUSSIES come out of the woodwork in defense of the all-time PUSSIE, Zimmerman.







_____________________________

"DOMA is unconstitutional as a deprivation of the equal liberty of persons that is protected by the Fifth Amendment" Anthony McLeod Kennedy

" About damn time...wooot!!' Me

(in reply to Edwynn)
Profile   Post #: 95
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/12/2013 3:48:33 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		I once stepped out of the shower, dripping wet, confronted a "young black male" who outweighed me by at least 30 pounds (not the least bit difficult in this case), and I just said; "What are you doing?"


You realize that this statement almost word for word what "excuses" Martin bouncing Zimmerman's head off the pavement?

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Edwynn)
Profile   Post #: 96
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/12/2013 3:50:25 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		All fine and well, but I was the scrawniest 12 yr. old kid (almost) in a Jr. HS of 900 kids, got my head bashed into a locker on a semi-regular basis, had to go do the paper route amongst viscous dogs in the afternoon after all that, along with dealing with 14 yr. old neighborhood thugs, etc.


At 12 it was illegal for you to carry a gun.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Edwynn)
Profile   Post #: 97
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/12/2013 3:51:55 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Did you shoot him? Or is there a fuckin point to this, because, if Trayvon were in the shower lookin to get a little jiggy with Zimmerman, I wouldn't have a damn thing to say about this.

Other than that, I am unsure of the point of your non-sequitur.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 98
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/12/2013 3:53:54 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

FR

Seriously, given the goal that the defence only needs to sow an element of doubt, how many people think Zimmerman's going to go down for this?

Who really thinks the prosecution proved anything except that they had a good reason not to prosecute in the first place?

The prosecution proved every element of second degree murder beyond a reasonable doubt.

Zimmerman's own words proved he had ill will and hatred for Martin
Zimmerman's story was proven to be untrue by his own witness under cross examination(specifically there is no way he reached his weapon if Martin had him pinned down with Martin's knees in his armpits)
Zimmerman never denied shooting and killing Martin.

That's all the elements and Zimmerman made up the self defense claim and lied about knowing the self defense laws. You never know what a jury will do though. I am sort of surprised they didn't come back quickly, sequestered juries tend to return on Friday's so they can go home for the weekend.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/12/2013 3:54:26 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Oh I am quite calm... laughing a bit in fact at this and the other threads.

Lets be real for a moment. Two men met on a very dark night, both with attitudes and histories of anger... both unable to walk away. I dont blame T for going home.. who the hell wants to be followed and go straight home to where the kid brother is? I dont blame Z for being there, he felt he had an obligation.

The break down comes in with Z forgetting his role, since he is following as he says he was taught by NW. As a nurse, if I follow only have my rules, if something goes wrong, I am not only "half" responsible.

There are lots of inconsistencies in the stories. No one will ever know the truth. but lies have been told... how many or to what extent, again, we may never know.

These two forces met, and fought, for whatever reason. Many often say "The equalizer was the gun". In this case, it wasnt an equalizer.

Now, we have charged 6 women, some with small children, the task of finding Z innocent or guilty. Its amazing how no one has thought about how this is affecting, or going to affect, their lives. Find him guilty, or innocent, and these women will surely feel the fall out for their decision. A hung jury will make both sides of the issue angry.

As much as we all want to be arm chair lawyers and juries... we arent... those 6 women are. Its now in their hands.. and I cant help but feel sorry for them no matter how they rule.

If Z gets convicted now, it just may be overturned on appeal. Who knows. But as much anger as this case has generated... and widely evidenced on these many, multiple threads... would any of you not think about yourselves as you are trying to decide this man's future?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 100
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