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RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/12/2013 3:58:19 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz
OK.... do you really think that when the self defense laws were written it was so they could protect pussies like Zimmerman from their well deserved fates?

I just pointed out that such laws were not in place when I was 12, 16, or 22 yrs. old. This was before the world went berserk.

They didn't enact leash laws for my benefit, or Zimmerman's either, though I had to deal with (primarily unleashed) viscous dogs every morning on my paper route, whereas Zimmerman felt the need, on one occasion, to report a "stray dog" to 911.

< Message edited by Edwynn -- 7/12/2013 3:59:06 PM >

(in reply to Powergamz1)

RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/12/2013 3:58:29 PM

tj444

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I believe he made a mistake in not testifying.

Butch

he made repeated mistakes by giving his story in the first dam place on camera/recorded, more than once, lies included, without legal representation.. the fact that he even went on tv against his lawyers advice (you could see O'Mara cringing at he sat next to him), the fact of the whole muck-up when he canned his first lawyer (without even telling him) shows someone that is arrogant and dumb enough to think no one will spot his lies & inconsistancies in his version of his story.. and that he thinks he knows the law better than lawyers do.. dont forget Zimmy sitting in court during his bail hearing when his wife and family lied about how much money he had.. I think O'Mara is one of the few good lawyers (imo), but there is only so much he can do given the total fuck-up of a client he was attempting to represent.. jmo..

_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

(in reply to kdsub)

RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/12/2013 4:04:19 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
A hung jury will make both sides of the issue angry.

Would probably be the best outcome too. This case is, IMO, is not about law but about social justice. I think a hung jury is easier to contemplate than a guilty verdict.

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to tazzygirl)

RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/12/2013 4:04:53 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

All fine and well, but I was the scrawniest 12 yr. old kid (almost) in a Jr. HS of 900 kids, got my head bashed into a locker on a semi-regular basis, had to go do the paper route amongst viscous dogs in the afternoon after all that, along with dealing with 14 yr. old neighborhood thugs, etc.

At 12 it was illegal for you to carry a gun.

Irrelevant. I never thought of carrying or possessing a gun in the first place. That's not how things were dealt with at the time.

What a fu*king bunch of pussies adults are, is all I would have said at the time (which in fact I did, for other reasons).

In fact, what I would say even more so, today.

< Message edited by Edwynn -- 7/12/2013 4:07:47 PM >

(in reply to BamaD)

RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/12/2013 4:05:30 PM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

FR

Seriously, given the goal that the defence only needs to sow an element of doubt, how many people think Zimmerman's going to go down for this?

Who really thinks the prosecution proved anything except that they had a good reason not to prosecute in the first place?

The prosecution proved every element of second degree murder beyond a reasonable doubt.

Zimmerman's own words proved he had ill will and hatred for Martin
Zimmerman's story was proven to be untrue by his own witness under cross examination(specifically there is no way he reached his weapon if Martin had him pinned down with Martin's knees in his armpits)
Zimmerman never denied shooting and killing Martin.

That's all the elements and Zimmerman made up the self defense claim and lied about knowing the self defense laws. You never know what a jury will do though. I am sort of surprised they didn't come back quickly, sequestered juries tend to return on Friday's so they can go home for the weekend.

Valid point to bad none of it is accurate.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to DomKen)

RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/12/2013 4:05:57 PM

Posts: 1927
Joined: 9/3/2011
Status: offline

Well, things were different with black powder weapons.

.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn

quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz
OK.... do you really think that when the self defense laws were written it was so they could protect pussies like Zimmerman from their well deserved fates?

I just pointed out that such laws were not in place when I was 12, 16, or 22 yrs. old. This was before the world went berserk.

They didn't enact leash laws for my benefit, or Zimmerman's either, though I had to deal with (primarily unleashed) viscous dogs every morning on my paper route, whereas Zimmerman felt the need, on one occasion, to report a "stray dog" to 911.

_____________________________

"DOMA is unconstitutional as a deprivation of the equal liberty of persons that is protected by the Fifth Amendment" Anthony McLeod Kennedy

" About damn time...wooot!!' Me

(in reply to Edwynn)

RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/12/2013 4:07:52 PM

BamaD

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Oh I am quite calm... laughing a bit in fact at this and the other threads.

Lets be real for a moment. Two men met on a very dark night, both with attitudes and histories of anger... both unable to walk away. I dont blame T for going home.. who the hell wants to be followed and go straight home to where the kid brother is? I dont blame Z for being there, he felt he had an obligation.

The break down comes in with Z forgetting his role, since he is following as he says he was taught by NW. As a nurse, if I follow only have my rules, if something goes wrong, I am not only "half" responsible.

There are lots of inconsistencies in the stories. No one will ever know the truth. but lies have been told... how many or to what extent, again, we may never know.

These two forces met, and fought, for whatever reason. Many often say "The equalizer was the gun". In this case, it wasnt an equalizer.

Now, we have charged 6 women, some with small children, the task of finding Z innocent or guilty. Its amazing how no one has thought about how this is affecting, or going to affect, their lives. Find him guilty, or innocent, and these women will surely feel the fall out for their decision. A hung jury will make both sides of the issue angry.

As much as we all want to be arm chair lawyers and juries... we arent... those 6 women are. Its now in their hands.. and I cant help but feel sorry for them no matter how they rule.

If Z gets convicted now, it just may be overturned on appeal. Who knows. But as much anger as this case has generated... and widely evidenced on these many, multiple threads... would any of you not think about yourselves as you are trying to decide this man's future?

If you are thinking about yourself you have no business being on the jury.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to tazzygirl)

RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/12/2013 4:08:22 PM

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Joined: 11/3/2004
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"DOMA is unconstitutional as a deprivation of the equal liberty of persons that is protected by the Fifth Amendment"

I've always wondered where that came from, since it unattributed.....how in the fuck did you come by that?

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to Powergamz1)

RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/12/2013 4:09:14 PM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn

quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz
OK.... do you really think that when the self defense laws were written it was so they could protect pussies like Zimmerman from their well deserved fates?

I just pointed out that such laws were not in place when I was 12, 16, or 22 yrs. old. This was before the world went berserk.

They didn't enact leash laws for my benefit, or Zimmerman's either, though I had to deal with (primarily unleashed) viscous dogs every morning on my paper route, whereas Zimmerman felt the need, on one occasion, to report a "stray dog" to 911.

No, self defense was a given right.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Edwynn)

RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/12/2013 4:09:52 PM

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
If you are thinking about yourself you have no business being on the jury.

Then there would be no juries.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to BamaD)

RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/12/2013 4:10:36 PM

Posts: 1927
Joined: 9/3/2011
Status: offline

And yet when I posted it with the link, you called it asswipe. Memory going so young?

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

"DOMA is unconstitutional as a deprivation of the equal liberty of persons that is protected by the Fifth Amendment"

I've always wondered where that came from, since it unattributed.....how in the fuck did you come by that?

_____________________________

"DOMA is unconstitutional as a deprivation of the equal liberty of persons that is protected by the Fifth Amendment" Anthony McLeod Kennedy

" About damn time...wooot!!' Me

(in reply to mnottertail)

RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/12/2013 4:11:10 PM

Posts: 4105
Joined: 10/26/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

Well, things were different with black powder weapons.

Thanks for hearing me out, in any case.

(in reply to Powergamz1)

RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/12/2013 4:12:01 PM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
If you are thinking about yourself you have no business being on the jury.

Then there would be no juries.

I would be and so would some others.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to mnottertail)

RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/12/2013 4:12:57 PM

Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

FR

Seriously, given the goal that the defence only needs to sow an element of doubt, how many people think Zimmerman's going to go down for this?

Who really thinks the prosecution proved anything except that they had a good reason not to prosecute in the first place?

The prosecution proved every element of second degree murder beyond a reasonable doubt.

Zimmerman's own words proved he had ill will and hatred for Martin
Zimmerman's story was proven to be untrue by his own witness under cross examination(specifically there is no way he reached his weapon if Martin had him pinned down with Martin's knees in his armpits)
Zimmerman never denied shooting and killing Martin.

That's all the elements and Zimmerman made up the self defense claim and lied about knowing the self defense laws. You never know what a jury will do though. I am sort of surprised they didn't come back quickly, sequestered juries tend to return on Friday's so they can go home for the weekend.

Valid point to bad none of it is accurate.

All of it is accurate.

Zimmerman said "these assholes they always get away" in reference to Martin. In Zimmerman's mind Martin was already guilty. That is definitely ill will and hatred.

Zimmerman has told many different versions but the details he provided to the self defense guy and the statements he gave to police all include Martin straddling him at or above his waist with his arms outside Martin's legs and in one version he claimed Martins knees were in his armpits. There is no conceivable way he could have gotten to his weapon and there is no way Martin could have seen it and tried to take it away in any of these scenarios. Therefore we know it happened somehow differently thanks to the defense witness.

Zimmerman has of course never denied he shot and killed Martin.

That is all the elements of second degree murder and we know the self defense claim is a lie.

(in reply to BamaD)

RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/12/2013 4:13:47 PM

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
If you are thinking about yourself you have no business being on the jury.

Then there would be no juries.

Thank you. Some people think its all about what they perceive and nothing else.

Bama, of course we all think about ourselves. These people do have a life beyond the court room.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to mnottertail)

RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/12/2013 4:15:12 PM

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

And yet when I posted it with the link, you called it asswipe. Memory going so young?

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

"DOMA is unconstitutional as a deprivation of the equal liberty of persons that is protected by the Fifth Amendment"

I've always wondered where that came from, since it unattributed.....how in the fuck did you come by that?

I guess I will have to take the Forteenth on that one. It saddens me to do so with such a piece of shit as that asswipe, don't ask don't tell does not fit within the Fifth, as I am sure you tutored the undergraduates in your Criminal Justice 101.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to Powergamz1)

RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/12/2013 4:15:26 PM

NothingIsTaboo4U

Posts: 11
Joined: 7/30/2012
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I truly want to believe that Mr. Zimmerman followed Trayvon Martin in his car, then got out of his car to follow on foot, all he did was ask the kid what he was doing, turned to leave because he was satisfied with the answer and was ambushed by a kid who intended to attack an adult all along after buying his tea and skittles.

But .. something tells me that isn't what happened at all.

My guess is Mr. Zimmerman forgot that if you try to stop someone from going home, they might come to believe that you intend to do them harm and if they feel threatened, they just might fight back resulting in your skull being cracked.

People want to believe that Zimmerman acted in self defense. But folks, when you instigate a confrontation, you are the aggressor. People were screaming about the "race card" being played. But the fact of the matter is this: if Trayvon Martin had been Tracy Martin, a blonde haired, blue eyed teenaged girl, Zimmerman would have been arrested the night of the shooting and the public would be willing to accept that she believed Zimmerman was trying to abduct her, she fought for her life and Zimmerman was wrong for shooting her, regardless of whether she smoked marijuana or had videos of herself talking about fighting.

(in reply to BamaD)

RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/12/2013 4:17:43 PM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

FR

Seriously, given the goal that the defence only needs to sow an element of doubt, how many people think Zimmerman's going to go down for this?

Who really thinks the prosecution proved anything except that they had a good reason not to prosecute in the first place?

The prosecution proved every element of second degree murder beyond a reasonable doubt.

Zimmerman's own words proved he had ill will and hatred for Martin
Zimmerman's story was proven to be untrue by his own witness under cross examination(specifically there is no way he reached his weapon if Martin had him pinned down with Martin's knees in his armpits)
Zimmerman never denied shooting and killing Martin.

That's all the elements and Zimmerman made up the self defense claim and lied about knowing the self defense laws. You never know what a jury will do though. I am sort of surprised they didn't come back quickly, sequestered juries tend to return on Friday's so they can go home for the weekend.

Valid point to bad none of it is accurate.

All of it is accurate.

Zimmerman said "these assholes they always get away" in reference to Martin. In Zimmerman's mind Martin was already guilty. That is definitely ill will and hatred.

Zimmerman has told many different versions but the details he provided to the self defense guy and the statements he gave to police all include Martin straddling him at or above his waist with his arms outside Martin's legs and in one version he claimed Martins knees were in his armpits. There is no conceivable way he could have gotten to his weapon and there is no way Martin could have seen it and tried to take it away in any of these scenarios. Therefore we know it happened somehow differently thanks to the defense witness.

Zimmerman has of course never denied he shot and killed Martin.

That is all the elements of second degree murder and we know the self defense claim is a lie.

You ignore the obvious fact that Martin initiated the violent phase of the encounter making it clear cut self defense.
Martin's ill will and hatred was more clearly demonstrated by the prosecution with the cracker comment or are you going to claim that this was a term of endearment?

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to DomKen)

RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/12/2013 4:18:13 PM

Posts: 1927
Joined: 9/3/2011
Status: offline

You may have missed the point. I'm all for your right to not carry a weapon. I'm satisfied with the outcome of your adventures. I don't evrn particularly care if you think ZImmerman was a pussy or that cops are pussies, etc.

But the fundamental laws on self defense (giving people the right to use weapons) were around long before you could have possibly been 12 or 22.
The old dueling codes went away in the 1800s.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn

quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

Well, things were different with black powder weapons.

Thanks for hearing me out, in any case.

_____________________________

"DOMA is unconstitutional as a deprivation of the equal liberty of persons that is protected by the Fifth Amendment" Anthony McLeod Kennedy

" About damn time...wooot!!' Me

(in reply to Edwynn)

RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/12/2013 4:18:43 PM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
If you are thinking about yourself you have no business being on the jury.

Then there would be no juries.

Thank you. Some people think its all about what they perceive and nothing else.

Bama, of course we all think about ourselves. These people do have a life beyond the court room.

Then you have a very low opinion of people>

< Message edited by BamaD -- 7/12/2013 4:38:29 PM >

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to tazzygirl)

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