Collarchat.com

Join Our Community
Collarchat.com

Home  Login  Search 

Real BDSM


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> Real BDSM Page: [1] 2 3 4 5   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Real BDSM - 6/29/2006 3:39:41 AM   
zenofeller


Posts: 463
Joined: 6/10/2006
Status: offline
As you'd expect, I give you the latest in controversial topics. What you find below is theory, nothing more. Bear that in mind. If you post something, would you kindly make it NOT an anecdotal event ? With all respect due to your personal experience, there's five million threads asking for it. This one would appreciate your abstract thinking instead.

There's two ways to play poker. The way everyone does it, you put the money in the middle, fiddle with the cards, split the money accordingly and when you've had enough, walk out. The way some might be doing it, not that I would ever play with them, would be as above except at the end the money is re-split so everyone leaves with what they came. All the fun, none of the downside.

Now let's take an example. If someone enjoys being tied up and left alone, the word of advice is "you must always have a way to untie yourself". Why ? Well, because you might need to. Certainly. But maybe the entire point of the exercise is to not be able to untie yourself ?

We distinguish between sex and masturbation roughly on the lines that while sex is interaction with another, masturbation is the pretense of interaction with another, using some sort of imagery. But, importantly, that imagery holds no sway over the masturbator other than what he conceedes at every moment. Jena Jamesson will never fart loudly when you're half way through. A real woman might. A .JPG never will.

Consequently, I choose to distinguish between real BDSM and pseudo BDSM.

Now, there's nothing wrong with masturbation, the same way there's nothing wrong with sex, as a choice of personal expression. What may be dangerous to a person, maybe, is if they fail to make the difference between the two.

However, in the case of BDSM, there exists a historical catch. Power comes with numbers, and in a repressive society like the united states enjoy, where a majority is at liberty to impose behaviours on any minority, the choice is simple. Power or extinction.

It was then observed that by including the pseudo-BDSM, numbers would swell and social acceptance might be easier attained, since in general the debate is not decided at the social level by whether people have a right to do something, but whether does anyone know someone doing it, and do they like that someone.

This is fine, and perfectly logical as a political choice, but then there's a problem. Wearing a choker does not BDSM make. Being tied up and left in the woods with an easy way to get out of it is not being tied up and left in the woods. Scripting a session is different from living a session.

Yet, the tempting political stand is to say, everything is equally BDSM, as everyone choses to practice it. This is correct from an ethical stand, no one practice is wrong and no one practice is correct. But it is false from a logical stand. Drawing ropes on your body does not constitute bondage.

The inability to clearly see this difference, often enough voluntary, due to the catfighting reflexively prompted by any suggestion that this or that is or is not "real BDSM", where "real" is of course seen as an ethical distinction, put the community in a very strange position, and in my oppinion generate most of the drama.

And since you are restricted from posting your own anecdotes, i'll share my own, to tantalize. Talking to a longtime friend, she said she could never be interested in "the scene" because every single move seems fake and scripted, and she'd much rather have the genuine article.
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Real BDSM - 6/29/2006 4:04:10 AM   
MrrPete


Posts: 614
Joined: 11/7/2005
Status: offline
Very interesting, V  E   R   Y interestink!

_____________________________

Awrabest,

Mr. Pete

Boycott Citgo

(in reply to zenofeller)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Real BDSM - 6/29/2006 4:06:27 AM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline
I have no idea why you are being so crass, insulting and rude by attempting to tell people how to respond when in many cases their enecdotes are based on experience and situations they have encountered, which for most is a perfectlt excelent in which to gather information.

That you choose to refere to Real BDSM and Pseudo BDSM tands to make me thing that you are another armchair bandit with little experience and thus not to be taken seriously, whereas had you used different termioloigy it may have been seen more worthy. In summation it appears that you want to play mind games in theoretical situations.. If that is the case I suggest you become involved with Other theorists who like to war game or role play and enjoy a fantasy leasure time... I'd prefer to listen/read information from those who have been there and done that or are in the process of doing so... Sorry but I have little time for theorists who will never looks at the hands on practical aspects of things....... Just my view others msy see things otherwise... .


_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to zenofeller)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Real BDSM - 6/29/2006 4:07:21 AM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline
When I filled out the forms at CM this time as far as bdsm actvities I left that part blank because:

1) I figure when I talk to someone who might be a potential partner it will be something we discuss as a matter of course. And -

2) I had a hard time gauging my experience level as far as what constitutes "expert" (I am not) or "beginner", etc. It's nice there is a scale (better than not having one, probably) but - it is arbitrary self reporting in my case.

I will come out and tell anyone I consider myself a "beginner" at most bdsm things. Hoping other folks are as honest because -

If I am ever in a position to try something I am genuinely scared of (knifeplay come to mind), I would need to know the person had some real quality experience. I suppose they could lie, but if they really damaged me I'd find out. And then it would be too late. Even if they didn't it might be obvious (I'm a reader and would read up on it myself, before doing it with anyone). Hopefully that won't ever happen. But the possibility does sort of beg the question -

*Just how does one (hopefully accurately) gauge another's experience level? 

- Susan  

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 6/29/2006 4:22:53 AM >


_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to zenofeller)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Real BDSM - 6/29/2006 4:12:36 AM   
zenofeller


Posts: 463
Joined: 6/10/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

I have no idea why you are being so crass, insulting and rude


The sentiment is mutual.

quote:


by attempting to tell people how to respond


I started the thread. That would mean I define the space of discussion. Other people are of course at liberty to move it and change it, legitimately if they belive something important has been left out, or trolling and hijacking if they just want to troll and hijack.

quote:


Sorry but I have little time

this is not experimentally apparent, i would dare say. note that i only hold that against you because its "experience and situations they have encountered, which for most is a perfectlt excelent in which to gather information".

(in reply to IronBear)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Real BDSM - 6/29/2006 4:12:36 AM   
bandit25


Posts: 3029
Joined: 6/18/2005
Status: offline
Iron Bear,

Once again, your wisdom and clarity are welcomed.  I don't know what the OPs issues are, but it seems to me that a lot of his posts are just that...rude.   Perhaps, some people respond to that...perhaps, that is the only way he knows how to talk to others.  I have no clue, but I agree with you.

(in reply to IronBear)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Real BDSM - 6/29/2006 4:15:52 AM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline
But really - how does one gauge someone's experience level? It's a serious (and not unimportant) question that did result from this thread topic (so all is not lost, hopefully).

-Susan

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Real BDSM - 6/29/2006 4:19:25 AM   
zenofeller


Posts: 463
Joined: 6/10/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO
Just how does one (hopefully acccurately) gauge another's experience level? 


An excellent question, really. There are obviously many ways one could go about that, which I suspect of being worthless, such as, for instance, community of oppinion. That is republicans agreeing a third person knows nothing about economy because they don't agree with trade barriers.

The only way I trust somewhat is what I call blind alleys. In your knife play example, grabbing the knife by the blade safely proves the person never saw a knife before (an extreme example, I know). Just by looking at a knife, it would not be apparent why you shouldn't grab the blade, especialy if you have no cultural reference to knives to go by.

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Real BDSM - 6/29/2006 4:26:25 AM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline
Yes, references seem like they could be set up to anyone's advantage.

I have what I consider to be great gut-level intuition about many people, but am not sure I'd trust going on just that when taking on a potential knifeplay scene. I guess the person would have to already be considered trustworthy by me and also, if there was no other, better way and they did have a reference or two, I could check those I guess. Plus, I would read up on knifeplay myself.

If I had to tell them how to do it, I wouldn't do it at all (with them).

*But  - aren't there better ways to gauge someone's experience level? Maybe not.
I wouldn't be asking if I had much experience (truly). It seems obvious to me there are folks here with experience (they talk as if they have a lot and I tend to believe them). With others how the heck would you know? 

- Susan 

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 6/29/2006 5:17:15 AM >


_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to zenofeller)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Real BDSM - 6/29/2006 4:37:55 AM   
zenofeller


Posts: 463
Joined: 6/10/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bandit25
I have no clue, but I agree with you.


I think that basically sums it up, wouldn't you say.

Now Susan, the problem of deciding just how competent another is, even when they aren't aware we're trying is just the biggest unsolved question of philosophy, sociology, psychology and what have you. Don't expect a simple answer.

Intuition is great. Not because it works, which it doesn't necessarily, but because it's your own. But in a relationship, your best bet is to trust the person (which is what you're saying), and then implicitly trust that they would honestly say just how competent they are. Works best if you don't pressure them, even if that's not always possible.

(in reply to bandit25)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Real BDSM - 6/29/2006 4:40:10 AM   
CrappyDom


Posts: 1883
Joined: 4/11/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline
I think it was quite appropriate that you chose to speak of masterbation.

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Real BDSM - 6/29/2006 4:41:13 AM   
MrrPete


Posts: 614
Joined: 11/7/2005
Status: offline
quote:

*Just how does one (hopefully accurately) gauge another's experience level? 

- Susan 


By watching them play with others. That's best but I realize not always possible.


_____________________________

Awrabest,

Mr. Pete

Boycott Citgo

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Real BDSM - 6/29/2006 4:41:19 AM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline
Thank you. I won't be asking for knifeplay (hehe) but I imagine they might ask me for that or other things I hope they'd know about. Or, I might be asking for things they don't know much about, or that we both want to try sometime, maybe, that neither of us knows much about.

I do hear that a lot, though, 'round here: "Make sure someone is experienced".
I'm willing, if I know how to tell.

- Susan  

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 6/29/2006 4:42:50 AM >


_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to zenofeller)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Real BDSM - 6/29/2006 4:43:30 AM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline
Good answer. Never thought of that.

-Susan

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to MrrPete)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Real BDSM - 6/29/2006 4:58:18 AM   
smilezz


Posts: 2156
Joined: 6/18/2004
Status: offline
I guess it depends on what "The Scene" means..........what "The Scene" does for you........what type of  involvement you have in "The Scene". 
It's not a blanket question...........there are no blanket answer(s).  I don't want to live something fake or scripted either........so i don't.
As far as the Real or True issue comes up once again.  The horse is dead.

Happy Thursday...

~smilezz~

_____________________________

=It's not my fault that when I was a baby I was dropped in a box of Glitter & I have been shinin' ever since=

�*:-.,_,.-:* � �*:-.,_,.-:* � �*:-.,_,.-:* � �*:-.,_,-:* �

(in reply to zenofeller)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Real BDSM - 6/29/2006 5:05:48 AM   
MsIncognito


Posts: 742
Joined: 5/24/2005
Status: offline
<brat>Just your stereotypical control freak Dom-type trying to tell people what to do </brat> *runs away quick*
quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

I have no idea why you are being so crass, insulting and rude by attempting to tell people how to respond when in many cases their enecdotes are based on experience and situations they have encountered, which for most is a perfectlt excelent in which to gather information.


(in reply to IronBear)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Real BDSM - 6/29/2006 5:16:05 AM   
feastie


Posts: 1793
Joined: 6/4/2004
Status: offline
So how many of you are going to continue buying into this guy's scam for attention?  Every post you make, even one that comments on his rudeness, etc., is one more notch in his bedpost.  The attention is what he's after.  Having the power to "control" people on the board because of the way he words his posts. It doesn't matter one whit to him what you write, just as long as you write.

He's winning and you're allowing it.



_____________________________

Snarky and loving it.

Disclaimer: Any views expressed in any post are my opinions only. They may or may not be yours.

(in reply to MsIncognito)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Real BDSM - 6/29/2006 5:18:47 AM   
zenofeller


Posts: 463
Joined: 6/10/2006
Status: offline
your signature is really ironic, incognito.

(in reply to feastie)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Real BDSM - 6/29/2006 5:19:41 AM   
JohnWarren


Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrrPete

quote:

*Just how does one (hopefully accurately) gauge another's experience level? 

- Susan 


By watching them play with others. That's best but I realize not always possible.



One way I judge dominants is on the grin on the faces of their submissives when the scene is over.

It's only one way but I find it correlates "we'll get along well" nicely.

_____________________________

www.lovingdominant.org

(in reply to MrrPete)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Real BDSM - 6/29/2006 5:22:48 AM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline
Thnak you, John and Libby Warren. Yes, that would be a good way to tell.
I think there is a real question in this thread. And think it's a pretty good one (least there could be - I really wanted to know, too). Appreciate it. - Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 6/29/2006 5:24:55 AM >


_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to JohnWarren)
Profile   Post #: 20
Page:   [1] 2 3 4 5   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> Real BDSM Page: [1] 2 3 4 5   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2024
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.463