RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citizen of a country with nationalize health care

Join Our Community

Collarchat.com

Home Login Search

RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citizen of a country with nationalize health care

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citizen of a country with nationalize health care

Page: << < prev 1 2 [3] 4 5 next > >>

Login

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citiz... - 10/6/2013 12:54:06 PM

Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: slavekate80

In partial defense of Big Pharma especially here in the USA, the biggest part of their high prices are to recoup the costs of research and development. Most drug research turns into a big fat nothing. A lot of what looks promising at first fails to show any effect or fails initial safety testing - if it looks like it works but kills half the mice that get a therapeutic dose, you can forget about trying it on humans almost every time. Very few make it as far as human trials and fewer pass those tests. Without charging very high prices on new drugs, they wouldn't be able to afford to continue doing research.

The system does need reformed so that this is less of an issue. Sharing research costs with universities, more government funding for research into drugs for specific conditions that are a big problem and don't have good therapies available, etc. It's disgusting that a year's supply of a medication can cost $100,000 or more. And true, the pharmaceutical companies often have some dishonest practices going on to draw more money. But the biggest reason that the drugs cost so much is that they cost so much to discover and test.

Personally, I think more drugs should be allowed to go to market. Some are pulled for safety reasons but a logical analysis will show they still are better existing than not existing... if a drug kills 1 out of 100 people taking it through side effects, but saves 5% of the patients by curing or treating their disease, it's going to get taken off the market (or not accepted in the first place) even though more people die without it than with it. We have unrealistically high safety standards, in part due to the abundance of lawsuits.

Okay, then answer this, why is a medication that is $145 for a 30 day supply in the US, less than 10 in Europe, made by the same pharmaceutical company?

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to slavekate80)

RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citiz... - 10/6/2013 1:11:53 PM

Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
Okay, then answer this, why is a medication that is $145 for a 30 day supply in the US, less than 10 in Europe, made by the same pharmaceutical company?

Yep, and the shipping costs are astronomical compared to internal US shipping.

Sorry, the biggest cost to big pharma is huge CEO salaries with mega freebies and free stock options.

And they exploit whatever free market is willing to pay the big bucks for their products.
That would be the US because the health insurance companies pay the big bucks and recoup the costs via hiked healthcare premiums to poor US suckers errrmmm... citizens.
That's the biggest problem with private healthcare - big companies ripping off customers.

ETA: did I hear it right on the news last night???
People are going to be fined if they don't have health insurance?

Somebody please tell me I heard it wrong!

< Message edited by freedomdwarf1 -- 10/6/2013 1:45:30 PM >

(in reply to jlf1961)

RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citiz... - 10/6/2013 2:29:11 PM

Posts: 409
Joined: 11/3/2009
From: [email protected]
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Is your health care system so overwhelmed that the critically ill are put on waiting lists for life saving procedures and more often than not die before they can get treatment?

Are they delaying your surgery?

No, the reason for the question is the statements made by conservatives that people are dying in Canada because they are on waiting lists for life saving procedures, medicines, etc. So I decided to go to the horse to find out if they are seeing this kind of situation.

Nope, and another thing we don't have is "government death panels deciding when Granny should die."

Basically, all the horror stories the US Right told you about state-provided healthcare? Surprise... they don't happen.

Our heath service is struggling right now because we have a US-style neolib government which is trying to abolish it by the usual right-wing method of slow starvation, combined with selling off all the bits that private medicine can make a profit on. Which is one of the reason they are going to be creamed at the next election, because even their own base value the NHS.

_____________________________

Leo9

Gonna pack in my hand, pick up on a piece of land and build myself a cabin in the woods.
It's there I'm gonna stay, until there comes a day when this old world starts a-changing for the good.
- James Taylor

(in reply to jlf1961)

RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citiz... - 10/6/2013 2:34:14 PM

Posts: 409
Joined: 11/3/2009
From: [email protected]
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: slavekate80

In partial defense of Big Pharma especially here in the USA, the biggest part of their high prices are to recoup the costs of research and development.

According to those who study these things, this is Big Pharma's Big Lie. Most corporate research these days is either into how to break some other corp's patent by making an almost-copy of a valuable drug, or how to invent a new illness so they can market people a pill they don't need. Real ground-breaking research is generally carried out by charities, Universities or governments, because only they can take the long view.

< Message edited by leonine -- 10/6/2013 2:35:01 PM >

_____________________________

Leo9

Gonna pack in my hand, pick up on a piece of land and build myself a cabin in the woods.
It's there I'm gonna stay, until there comes a day when this old world starts a-changing for the good.
- James Taylor

(in reply to slavekate80)

RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citiz... - 10/6/2013 2:34:18 PM

Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

ETA: did I hear it right on the news last night???
People are going to be fined if they don't have health insurance?
Somebody please tell me I heard it wrong!

Of course you heard right. The fines have been an integral part of the plan from the git-go. How else are they going to force people to buy insurance?

quote:

The fee in 2014 and beyond

The fee in 2014 is 1% of your yearly income or $95 per person for the year, whichever is higher. The fee increases every year. In 2016 it is 2.5% of income or $695 per person, whichever is higher.

In 2014 the fee for uninsured children is $47.50 per child. The most a family would have to pay in 2014 is $285.

It's important to remember that someone who pays the fee won't get any health insurance coverage. They still will be responsible for 100% of the cost of their medical care.

The bolded parts is what I'm not sure about. The wording is clear... you pay the per person fine or 1% of your yearly income, whichever is higher. Then, they say the most would be $285 (for 2014). Which is it? Because for a family of four making $50,000, the 1% fine is $500.

Edited to add:

Oh... I forgot to add:

In 2015, the penalty will be the greater of 2.0% of taxable income or $325 per adult and $162.50 per child (up to $975 per family).

In 2016, the penalty will be at the greater of 2.5% of taxable income or $695 per adult and $347.50 per child (up to $2,085 per family).

After 2016, the penalty will be increased annually by the increase to the cost-of-living.

< Message edited by TreasureKY -- 10/6/2013 2:37:50 PM >

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)

RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citiz... - 10/6/2013 2:56:25 PM

Posts: 8098
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Is your health care system so overwhelmed that the critically ill are put on waiting lists for life saving procedures and more often than not die before they can get treatment?

Back in 2007 a uni mate in the UK was diagnosed with a brain tumour and got it removed within a week...

Now, in her case it might have helped her to get the rappid procedure (was her explanation not mine) as her mum did die on one some years before then, but it just shows, nationalised health care does not have to be bad...

She was grateful for the rapid surgery, but afterwards very frustrated about the long waiting times for her follow-up treatments...but still better that way than having to face things like bankruptcy due to horrendous hospital bills as I hear it at times from some people from the US.

_____________________________

RIP 08-09-07

The PAST is history, the FUTURE a mystery, NOW is a gift - that's why it's called the PRESENT

www.butyoudontlooksick.com/navigation/BYDLS-TheSpoonTheory.pdf

(in reply to jlf1961)

RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citiz... - 10/6/2013 3:02:00 PM

Posts: 8098
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
Okay, then answer this, why is a medication that is $145 for a 30 day supply in the US, less than 10 in Europe, made by the same pharmaceutical company?

That actually frustrates me over here as well...I paid in the UK 16 pence (i think it was) for a packet of 32 aspirines...

Here I am paying around 6-8 Euros for 20 of them...

well... I do know, what to take home with me after my next UK trip...

_____________________________

RIP 08-09-07

The PAST is history, the FUTURE a mystery, NOW is a gift - that's why it's called the PRESENT

www.butyoudontlooksick.com/navigation/BYDLS-TheSpoonTheory.pdf

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)

RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citiz... - 10/6/2013 3:40:56 PM

tj444

Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

We're still talking about million dollar compensation packages in the US, compared to hundreds of thousands in Canada. There is a huge difference in that.

yeah but I sorta lump that in with grossly high costs cuz its a part of that.. another is that Canada regulates the maximum court award for doctor negligence so legal liability insurance rates are considerably lower in Canada than in the US..

(in reply to DesideriScuri)

RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citiz... - 10/6/2013 3:51:54 PM

Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
Zeppo, I am not sure if this is still the case but here is what I know. Many years ago I needed surgery to correct a deviation in my nose, or some such thing, as it was affecting my breathing, not drastically but enough to need looking at. There was a wait to see the NHS surgeon, so I mentioned to him I was in BUPA via the union I was in..... He put me on to a BUPA hospital and I was seen within two weeks, by the same surgeon. I had to pay for surgery up front and got reimbursed at a later date.

Do you have any idea what the difference in reimbursement rates (or billable costs) was between BUPA and NHS?

And, am I reading right that there are "NHS-only" hospitals and private insurance hospitals?

Some NHShospitals do allow private hospitals to use operating theatres at weekends when they are not needed for emergency treatment. Some NHS hospitals also send patients to be treated privately. Basically though, if you go private, it costs more. There have also been cases of private hospitals delaying treatment to patients sent by the NHS, and telling them they can get treated better going private. There haave also been cases of private hospitals offering lower costs and patients getting worse health care. One instance was a South African owned private hospital, who replaced a ladys hip. Not only did she recieve severe burns to her foot, from an accident with some of the equipment, her hip operation wasnt done properly and she neded up getting it fixed at a NHS hospital.

A link Re the costs story I entioned.
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/private-hospital-told-doctors-to-delay-nhs-work-to-boost-profits-7962582.html

(in reply to DesideriScuri)

RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citiz... - 10/6/2013 3:57:07 PM

Posts: 3183
Joined: 1/31/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

treatment is still available privately though if thats what one requires.

How is that handled?

You simply pay cash up front.

Interesting. And if one does not have the cash?

They get to go to the Death Panel query

(in reply to Yachtie)

RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citiz... - 10/6/2013 3:58:14 PM

Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline

FR

An interesting bit of history relating to U.S. drug costs:

By the design of the program [Medicare Part D, passed by a Republican-majority Congress and signed by George W. Bush], the federal government [i.e., Medicare] is not permitted to negotiate prices of drugs with the drug companies, as federal agencies do in other programs. The Department of Veterans Affairs, which is allowed to negotiate drug prices and establish a formulary, has been estimated to pay between 40%[26] and 58%[27] less for drugs, on average, than Medicare Part D. For example, the VA pays as little as $782.44 for a year's supply of Lipitor (atorvastatin) 20 mg, while the Medicare pays between $1120 and $1340 on Part D plans.[27]

* * *

Estimating how much money could be saved if Medicare had been allowed to negotiate drug prices, economist Dean Baker gives a "most conservative high-cost scenario" of $332 billion between 2006 and 2013 (approximately $50 billion a year), and a "middle cost scenario" of $563 billion in savings "for the same budget window".[28]

Former Congressman Billy Tauzin, R-La., who steered the bill through the House, retired soon after and took a $2 million a year job as president of Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America (PhRMA), the main industry lobbying group. Medicare boss Thomas Scully, who threatened to fire Medicare Chief Actuary Richard Foster if he reported how much the bill would actually cost, was negotiating for a new job as a pharmaceutical lobbyist as the bill was working through Congress.[29][30] A total of 14 congressional aides quit their jobs to work for the drug and medical lobbies immediately after the bill's passage.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicare_Part_D. Emphasis mine.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to tj444)

RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citiz... - 10/6/2013 3:58:53 PM

Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
FR~
I see most on this thread appear to have centred around hospitals and proceedural costs.
What about the other side of medical care??
Going to see your GP (physician) for instance??
What is the average cost in the US? $50 just to go to that appointment?
For nationalised healthcare, it's free and it doesn't matter if you have private medical insurance or not.
Any meds he/she prescribes is the same too - private medical insurance or not.
The only advantage you get with private medical insurance is you might be able to jump the queue for certain non-essential surgery.
And as has been said, many NHS doctors and theatre staff work on both sides - private and NHS.
Nationalised healthcare also allows those on low incomes/welfare to get free meds.
So the OH and I don't pay a bean for any of our meds and we can usually get to see our GP within a few days; even within the hour if it's urgent.
If we had to pay for each of the many we have, we just wouldn't be able to afford it.
Fair enough, over the years of paying 8% or so from my salary means I've probably paid for what I'm now using for free.
But surely, every working person paying 8%~ish while they are working is a damned site cheaper than some of the horror stories I have heard from friends in the US who can no longer afford private healthcare at all.
The system isn't perfect by any means but it certainly means that healthcare is free at the point of delivery for everyone.
Sure, some non-essential operations could be put back when more urgent cases drop in.
But even the private health care does that - everything is prioritised according to health risk.
I think, overall, it's a better system all round and because the government controls the purse, the big pharma's can't always demand such extortionately high prices.

Free? The Dr. gets no reimbursement for a visit?

_____________________________

What I support:

A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
Personal Responsibility
Help for the truly needy
Limited Government
Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)

RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citiz... - 10/6/2013 4:05:07 PM

Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
We're still talking about million dollar compensation packages in the US, compared to hundreds of thousands in Canada. There is a huge difference in that.

yeah but I sorta lump that in with grossly high costs cuz its a part of that.. another is that Canada regulates the maximum court award for doctor negligence so legal liability insurance rates are considerably lower in Canada than in the US..

Oh, come on, now. We've been told over and over that malpractice caps don't add to costs.

_____________________________

What I support:

A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
Personal Responsibility
Help for the truly needy
Limited Government
Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to tj444)

RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citiz... - 10/6/2013 4:06:17 PM

Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

They get to go to the Death Panel query

There are no death panels, its only something right wing tossers insist on.

I asked Yachtie what his point was and am still waiting. Would you like to have a go at the same question.

(in reply to FatDomDaddy)

RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citiz... - 10/6/2013 4:09:46 PM

Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

Free? The Dr. gets no reimbursement for a visit?

Free to the patient, incase that wasnt obvious. Its all part of the NHS budget. Incase you are wondering we pay less per capita than those in the US on health care.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)

RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citiz... - 10/6/2013 4:11:06 PM

Posts: 162
Joined: 5/5/2013
Status: offline

''Free? The Dr. gets no reimbursement for a visit?''

No more than his pay for being a G.P. Desideri.

(in reply to Politesub53)

RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citiz... - 10/6/2013 4:13:24 PM

tj444

Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
We're still talking about million dollar compensation packages in the US, compared to hundreds of thousands in Canada. There is a huge difference in that.

yeah but I sorta lump that in with grossly high costs cuz its a part of that.. another is that Canada regulates the maximum court award for doctor negligence so legal liability insurance rates are considerably lower in Canada than in the US..

Oh, come on, now. We've been told over and over that malpractice caps don't add to costs.

well.. I have posted in another thread some months ago about a report that compared the yearly insurance cost of a surgeon in Ontario (which has the most malpractice lawsuits in Canada) to insurance cost in Florida.. it was something like $25k in Ontario (something like $13k in Vancouver, BC) & over $200k in Florida.. for what the FL doc pays, you could buy a nice house every year!..

< Message edited by tj444 -- 10/6/2013 4:15:02 PM >

(in reply to DesideriScuri)

RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citiz... - 10/6/2013 4:21:07 PM

Posts: 40310
Status: offline

insurance companies and lawyers taking the most of that

quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

treatment is still available privately though if thats what one requires.

How is that handled?

You simply pay cash up front.

Interesting. And if one does not have the cash?

They get to go to the Death Panel query

No, They get to wait, like everyone else. there is no death panel, there is no being turned down because of income, lack of private insurance, or pre existing condtions.

_____________________________

(•_•)
<) )╯SUCH
/ \

\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
/ \

(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
/ \

Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

(in reply to tj444)

RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citiz... - 10/6/2013 5:16:21 PM

Posts: 8098
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

treatment is still available privately though if thats what one requires.

How is that handled?

Anyone can walk into a private hospital and ask to be seen. i

...but according to somw articles it can also have consequences (though I don't know enough your system to judge it, nor do I like the writing style of that paper...)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1266983/Cancer-survivor-barred-NHS-treatment-paying-private-doctor-ease-spinal-pain.html

_____________________________

RIP 08-09-07

The PAST is history, the FUTURE a mystery, NOW is a gift - that's why it's called the PRESENT

www.butyoudontlooksick.com/navigation/BYDLS-TheSpoonTheory.pdf

(in reply to Politesub53)

RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citiz... - 10/6/2013 5:33:40 PM

Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

treatment is still available privately though if thats what one requires.

How is that handled?

You simply pay cash up front.

Interesting. And if one does not have the cash?

Maybe you've heard of the NHS?

(in reply to Yachtie)

Page: << < prev 1 2 [3] 4 5 next > >>

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citizen of a country with nationalize health care

Page: << < prev 1 2 [3] 4 5 next > >>

Jump to:

New Messages	No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages	Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages	Locked w/o New Messages

Post New Thread

Reply to Message

Post New Poll

Submit Vote

Delete My Own Post

Delete My Own Thread

Rate Posts

Collarchat.com © 2024

Terms of Service

0.048