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RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citiz... - 10/6/2013 6:11:57 PM

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I'm in the US but originally from Canada.

My former mother in law had to wait a year for her hip replacement surgery. She could have paid to have it sooner, or gone to another city to have it done sooner. It was considered elective surgery and for that there is a waiting list. A friend of mine had to wait to see a specialist when drastically losing weight. She went to ER, got admitted, had a battery of tests and found out unfortunately that she had pancreatic cancer. When she was discharged she was also set up to get her chemo treatments. She lived about 7 months and had all the treatment there was to offer. However, had she needed hospice toward the end that could have proven to be more difficult. There are waitlists for that.

There are waitlists for things like organ transplants and the like too, but that's more of a supply issue. I had a friend here who needed a heart transplant and fortunately was able to have one, but many people on those lists often run out of time.

If you get appendicitis, go to ER you'll have surgery and stay as long as medically necessary. You can upgrade to a semi private or private room but that will cost. But otherwise you'll receive the same medical care and not pay.

_____________________________

What you permit, you promote.

(in reply to jlf1961)

RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citiz... - 10/6/2013 6:57:11 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Free? The Dr. gets no reimbursement for a visit?

Free to the patient, incase that wasnt obvious. Its all part of the NHS budget. Incase you are wondering we pay less per capita than those in the US on health care.

So, it's not really "free," then. Co-pays for every insurance I've been on (and this is limited only to the plans that I was on, and is not intended to speak for every plan out there) for office visits was either $10 or $15. The rest was paid for by the insurance.

If it's free, then, it's free. If it's paid by the insurance, then it isn't free. If it's "free to the patient," then it should be labeled "free to the patient." But, "free to the patient" isn't really free, is it?

_____________________________

What I support:

A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
Personal Responsibility
Help for the truly needy
Limited Government
Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to Politesub53)

RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citiz... - 10/6/2013 7:07:06 PM

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Its paid for with everyones taxes, you get a national health number, you use it to sign up with a doctor, there are no fees for doctors visits, there are no bills, there are no co pays, you pay for medication. Unless you use a non NHS source, you dont use an insurance company. Its THE NATIONAL HEALTH SERVICE.
In canada you pay via your taxes, My province , its called OHIP
Ontario Health Insurance Program
The Ontario Health Insurance Plan is the government-run health insurance plan for the Canadian province of Ontario. OHIP is funded by taxes paid by the residents and businesses of Ontario and by transfer payments from the federal government.
Every Ontario resident with his or her primary and permanent home in Ontario is entitled to access emergency and preventive medical care (although Bariatric surgery in many cases is not covered) under OHIP free of charge. Ontario residents may go to a participating doctor—essentially every doctor practising in the province—any time they wish (subject to the consent of the doctor) and the services are billed through OHIP to the government. It does not cover such areas as prescription drugs or dental care, although Ontario does have a drug insurance plan, for use as a "last resort", known as the Trillium Drug Program.
While Ontario receives transfer payments from the federal government of Canada to partially fund health care, OHIP is also supported by general provincial tax revenues and premiums (taxes) paid by employers and individuals. Employers are charged a payroll health care tax (with an exemption for small businesses) and residents of the province pay a health premium (introduced in 2004) as part of their income taxes.
The Ontario Health Premium (OHP) is a component of Ontario's Personal Income Tax system. The OHP is based on taxable income for a taxation year. As of May 2010, an Ontario resident with taxable income (i.e. income after subtracting allowable deductions) of $21,000 pays $60 per year. With taxable income of $22,000, the premium doubles to $120; with taxable income of $23,000, the premium is $180; with taxable income of $24,000, the premium is $240. The premium increases at a decreasing rate thereafter for taxable incomes up to $200,600, at which point the maximum premium of $900 is reached.

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(in reply to DesideriScuri)

RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citiz... - 10/6/2013 7:07:49 PM

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Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Free? The Dr. gets no reimbursement for a visit?

Free to the patient, incase that wasnt obvious. Its all part of the NHS budget. Incase you are wondering we pay less per capita than those in the US on health care.

So, it's not really "free," then. Co-pays for every insurance I've been on (and this is limited only to the plans that I was on, and is not intended to speak for every plan out there) for office visits was either $10 or $15. The rest was paid for by the insurance.

If it's free, then, it's free. If it's paid by the insurance, then it isn't free. If it's "free to the patient," then it should be labeled "free to the patient." But, "free to the patient" isn't really free, is it?

You don't understand the British system. It is not fee for service inside the NHS. The NHS directly employs the doctors. There is no fee for an office visit. The doctor gets paid as an employee of the NHS.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)

RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citiz... - 10/6/2013 7:12:01 PM

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What Ken said.

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\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
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(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
/ \

Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

(in reply to DomKen)

RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citiz... - 10/6/2013 7:20:35 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Its paid for with everyones taxes,

Ah! The definition of free

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“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to Lucylastic)

RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citiz... - 10/6/2013 7:24:39 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
The NHS directly employs the doctors. There is no fee for an office visit. The doctor gets paid as an employee of the NHS.

Here we could have the doctors as employees of the EPA. Depending on which party is in office, the other side gets to the back of the line. Ideologically it could be seen as protecting the environment.

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to DomKen)

RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citiz... - 10/6/2013 7:31:22 PM

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Joined: 12/29/2006
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To the OP:

No. And that's a major reason our standard of living, happiness index, and life expectancy are all so much higher than our richer US neighbours.

_____________________________

"Then I did the simplest thing in the world. I leaned down... and kissed him. And the world cracked open." - Agnes de Mille

(in reply to jlf1961)

RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citiz... - 10/6/2013 7:46:25 PM

seekingOwnertoo

Posts: 1323
Joined: 8/1/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

The Ontario Health Premium (OHP) is a component of Ontario's Personal Income Tax system. The OHP is based on taxable income for a taxation year. As of May 2010, an Ontario resident with taxable income (i.e. income after subtracting allowable deductions) of $21,000 pays $60 per year. With taxable income of $22,000, the premium doubles to $120; with taxable income of $23,000, the premium is $180; with taxable income of $24,000, the premium is $240. The premium increases at a decreasing rate thereafter for taxable incomes up to $200,600, at which point the maximum premium of $900 is reached.

WOW, that is cheap!

I live in the US, and work for a "progressive" high Tech Company.

I am single, they deduct $500 plus a month from my pay for health care.

My friend in the next office, is married and has three kids under 10 years of age. He pays, $1800 per month!

Yes the Company does "adjust" the salary of high performers to compensate ... BUT >>>

If you think this is NOT a drag on the US Economy, please allow me to correct you.

It is a huge drag ....

The only people in the US who get good company paid Heath Care are in Unions (and that is diminishing); or Government; ROFL , especially Legislatures in Congress and the States!

PS: thought I should add ... my premium is cheap compared to my "free enterprise alternative" which happens to be the Insurance Company of Last Resort ... they want $950 a month, for me!

And no one else will take me due to pre-existing conditions.

< Message edited by seekingOwnertoo -- 10/6/2013 7:56:22 PM >

_____________________________

Got my second paddle! Finally! :-)

Heck I had one in 2010 .. now in 2013 another! Yes you can say, i am just a gifted slow learner!

(in reply to Lucylastic)

RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citiz... - 10/6/2013 7:48:51 PM

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You know man, I really had it with you. You criticize all the other countries that have nationalized health care, thinking the US is the one shining example of how health care should be handled. You may not want your tax money going to saving the lives of people you don't know or helping people make their lives better, but I do. You may or might not be religious, but wasn't it Jesus who did all he could to help the sick, the poor and the elderly? Didn't he preach kindness and love for everyone? I'm not religious anymore but I grew up on those ideals, and they are the ideals by which I live by today. The person dying in the hospital could be my worst enemy and I'd still support my money going towards his care, because helping my fellow human is the right thing to do. No one ever gets ahead in this world on their own merit alone, people need each other to succeed, and anyone who denies that is denying every little detail in their past which got them to where they are today.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Its paid for with everyones taxes,

Ah! The definition of free

(in reply to Yachtie)

RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citiz... - 10/6/2013 8:07:40 PM

Posts: 40310
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Its paid for with everyones taxes,

Ah! The definition of free

No, but carry on.!

_____________________________

(•_•)
<) )╯SUCH
/ \

\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
/ \

(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
/ \

Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

(in reply to Yachtie)

RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citiz... - 10/6/2013 8:08:11 PM

seekingOwnertoo

Posts: 1323
Joined: 8/1/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tkman117

You know man,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Its paid for with everyones taxes,

Ah! The definition of free

My apologies for shorting your post ... but

WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE IF I PAY BIG BUCKS TO THE INSURANCE COMPANY; OR HIGHER TAXES ????

That money is NOT being spent to stimulate the economy at all.

I have not gone to a Doctor in several years ... all I do is pay premiums ...

Don't even know why I pay them.

Heck, if I get sick ... I go on Medicaid ... and my expenses are PAID out of OTHER PEOPLES TAXES!

TO: Tkman117 .. My apologies on stealing your post ... Sorry, I had to. LOL

wanted that exchange on taxes ... LOL ...

< Message edited by seekingOwnertoo -- 10/6/2013 8:21:07 PM >

_____________________________

Got my second paddle! Finally! :-)

Heck I had one in 2010 .. now in 2013 another! Yes you can say, i am just a gifted slow learner!

(in reply to Tkman117)

RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citiz... - 10/6/2013 8:13:56 PM

Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: seekingOwnertoo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

The Ontario Health Premium (OHP) is a component of Ontario's Personal Income Tax system. The OHP is based on taxable income for a taxation year. As of May 2010, an Ontario resident with taxable income (i.e. income after subtracting allowable deductions) of $21,000 pays $60 per year. With taxable income of $22,000, the premium doubles to $120; with taxable income of $23,000, the premium is $180; with taxable income of $24,000, the premium is $240. The premium increases at a decreasing rate thereafter for taxable incomes up to $200,600, at which point the maximum premium of $900 is reached.

WOW, that is cheap!

I live in the US, and work for a "progressive" high Tech Company.

I am single, they deduct $500 plus a month from my pay for health care.

My friend in the next office, is married and has three kids under 10 years of age. He pays, $1800 per month!

I was at one time a senior developer at a smallish software company and our high health care costs was slowly pushing out of the international market and we could see the day coming where international firms would be able to underbid us on US jobs simply by only having sales personnel in the US and keeping their development staff in Canada or Europe.

(in reply to seekingOwnertoo)

RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citiz... - 10/6/2013 8:18:54 PM

Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: seekingOwnertoo
Heck, if I get sick ... I go on Medicaid ... and my expenses are PAID out of OTHER PEOPLES TAXES!

You do not want to go on Medicaid no matter how sick you get. It is, in most states, an absolutely horrendous level of care with very tight restrictions.

Medicare is the better program but you have to actually be disabled to be eligible and a number of things like cancer don't always qualify.

(in reply to seekingOwnertoo)

RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citiz... - 10/6/2013 8:26:29 PM

seekingOwnertoo

Posts: 1323
Joined: 8/1/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: seekingOwnertoo
Heck, if I get sick ... I go on Medicaid ... and my expenses are PAID out of OTHER PEOPLES TAXES!

You do not want to go on Medicaid no matter how sick you get. It is, in most states, an absolutely horrendous level of care with very tight restrictions.

Medicare is the better program but you have to actually be disabled to be eligible and a number of things like cancer don't always qualify.

Thanks Ken ... actually, I know that.

Just trying to make a point, that being: what is the difference between paying taxes, or paying your Health Care Premium?

A Premium that spirals upward every year, with no controls, except the size of Executive Bonuses?

In my mind, its all money out of my pocket, that I cannot spend elsewhere!

Have a great evening!

_____________________________

Got my second paddle! Finally! :-)

Heck I had one in 2010 .. now in 2013 another! Yes you can say, i am just a gifted slow learner!

(in reply to DomKen)

RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citiz... - 10/6/2013 8:47:07 PM

seekingOwnertoo

Posts: 1323
Joined: 8/1/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

I was at one time a senior developer at a smallish software company and our high health care costs was slowly pushing out of the international market and we could see the day coming where international firms would be able to underbid us on US jobs simply by only having sales personnel in the US and keeping their development staff in Canada or Europe.

Yes, and I do understand this ... its a huge problem for American "competitiveness" ... one that people in Washington today will not even accept as true.

Yet it is ...

When a company no longer has to pay the HIGHEST HEALTH CARE COSTS IN THE WORLD ... well, it sure can be a LOT more competitive. No?

_____________________________

Got my second paddle! Finally! :-)

Heck I had one in 2010 .. now in 2013 another! Yes you can say, i am just a gifted slow learner!

(in reply to DomKen)

RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citiz... - 10/7/2013 12:40:26 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
FR~
I see most on this thread appear to have centred around hospitals and proceedural costs.
What about the other side of medical care??
Going to see your GP (physician) for instance??
What is the average cost in the US? $50 just to go to that appointment?
For nationalised healthcare, it's free and it doesn't matter if you have private medical insurance or not.
Any meds he/she prescribes is the same too - private medical insurance or not.
The only advantage you get with private medical insurance is you might be able to jump the queue for certain non-essential surgery.
And as has been said, many NHS doctors and theatre staff work on both sides - private and NHS.
Nationalised healthcare also allows those on low incomes/welfare to get free meds.
So the OH and I don't pay a bean for any of our meds and we can usually get to see our GP within a few days; even within the hour if it's urgent.
If we had to pay for each of the many we have, we just wouldn't be able to afford it.
Fair enough, over the years of paying 8% or so from my salary means I've probably paid for what I'm now using for free.
But surely, every working person paying 8%~ish while they are working is a damned site cheaper than some of the horror stories I have heard from friends in the US who can no longer afford private healthcare at all.
The system isn't perfect by any means but it certainly means that healthcare is free at the point of delivery for everyone.
Sure, some non-essential operations could be put back when more urgent cases drop in.
But even the private health care does that - everything is prioritised according to health risk.
I think, overall, it's a better system all round and because the government controls the purse, the big pharma's can't always demand such extortionately high prices.

Free? The Dr. gets no reimbursement for a visit?

I don't know how it works in the UK but in italy the family doctor recives an annual forfait for every patient who signs up with him/her, you choose one and go always to him.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)

RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citiz... - 10/7/2013 12:44:49 AM

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Joined: 11/4/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Its paid for with everyones taxes,

Ah! The definition of free

if you are unemplyed yes

(in reply to Yachtie)

RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citiz... - 10/7/2013 2:12:32 AM

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Joined: 7/30/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Its paid for with everyones taxes,

Ah! The definition of free

You mean like say...B2 bombers ? I mean they are free too right ? I've never paid for one, have you ?

< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 10/7/2013 2:44:54 AM >

(in reply to Yachtie)

RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citiz... - 10/7/2013 2:19:07 AM

Posts: 10540
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
The NHS directly employs the doctors. There is no fee for an office visit. The doctor gets paid as an employee of the NHS.

Here we could have the doctors as employees of the EPA. Depending on which party is in office, the other side gets to the back of the line. Ideologically it could be seen as protecting the environment.

Let's not get carried away with this ok ? I mean after all being a doctor or a drug co. or say even an insurance co,. we are here to make some fucking money man. And I mean 30-50% too, not some pedestrian 10-15%.

Ideologically ? Ideologically, we are here to make a profit and to maintain a very patriotic not to mention fiduciary responsibility to make as much of a profit as I can even if it means...you die younger.

(in reply to Yachtie)

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