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RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citiz... - 10/7/2013 2:23:12 AM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tantriqu

To the OP:

No. And that's a major reason our standard of living, happiness index, and life expectancy are all so much higher than our richer US neighbours.


Richer ? Who told you they are richer ? Do you have some proof of that. Oh wait, I see...Americans are only $60 trillion in debt and have only $122 trillion in unfunded liabilities.

Hell, you must be right, those people surely must be real rich if they can borrow that kind of money.

(in reply to Tantriqu)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citiz... - 10/7/2013 2:41:12 AM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Free? The Dr. gets no reimbursement for a visit?

Free to the patient, incase that wasnt obvious. Its all part of the NHS budget. Incase you are wondering we pay less per capita than those in the US on health care.


So, it's not really "free," then. Co-pays for every insurance I've been on (and this is limited only to the plans that I was on, and is not intended to speak for every plan out there) for office visits was either $10 or $15. The rest was paid for by the insurance.

If it's free, then, it's free. If it's paid by the insurance, then it isn't free. If it's "free to the patient," then it should be labeled "free to the patient." But, "free to the patient" isn't really free, is it?



Oh FFS Dont start me off having to explain the simple meaning of words. It is free in as much as you dont have to pay any money, it comes from the public purse. NO ONE as ever claimed it is completely free.

And yes, to those out of work, too young to pay taxes or to old (retired) it is free, completely utterly and totally free, they dont contribute a single penny. And we still pay less per capita on health than US Citizens.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 82
RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citiz... - 10/7/2013 2:43:54 AM   
eulero83


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tantriqu

To the OP:

No. And that's a major reason our standard of living, happiness index, and life expectancy are all so much higher than our richer US neighbours.


Richer ? Who told you they are richer ? Do you have some proof of that. Oh wait, I see...Americans are only $60 trillion in debt and have only $122 trillion in unfunded liabilities.

Hell, you must be right, those people surely must be real rich if they can borrow that kind of money.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita

USA has a higher per capita gross domestic product, and as you suggest it's also living above its possibilities.

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 83
RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citiz... - 10/7/2013 2:58:43 AM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: seekingOwnertoo


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


I was at one time a senior developer at a smallish software company and our high health care costs was slowly pushing out of the international market and we could see the day coming where international firms would be able to underbid us on US jobs simply by only having sales personnel in the US and keeping their development staff in Canada or Europe.

Yes, and I do understand this ... its a huge problem for American "competitiveness" ... one that people in Washington today will not even accept as true.

Yet it is ...

When a company no longer has to pay the HIGHEST HEALTH CARE COSTS IN THE WORLD ... well, it sure can be a LOT more competitive. No?


http://www.collarchat.com/m_4552598/tm.htm

< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 10/7/2013 2:59:01 AM >

(in reply to seekingOwnertoo)
Profile   Post #: 84
RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citiz... - 10/7/2013 6:07:57 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tkman117
You know man, I really had it with you. You criticize all the other countries that have nationalized health care, thinking the US is the one shining example of how health care should be handled. You may not want your tax money going to saving the lives of people you don't know or helping people make their lives better, but I do. You may or might not be religious, but wasn't it Jesus who did all he could to help the sick, the poor and the elderly? Didn't he preach kindness and love for everyone? I'm not religious anymore but I grew up on those ideals, and they are the ideals by which I live by today. The person dying in the hospital could be my worst enemy and I'd still support my money going towards his care, because helping my fellow human is the right thing to do. No one ever gets ahead in this world on their own merit alone, people need each other to succeed, and anyone who denies that is denying every little detail in their past which got them to where they are today.


You have a fundamental misunderstanding of Jesus and his teachings. Jesus did preach about helping the poor and taking care of the "least" among us. But, what Jesus preached about was charity. Government provision is not charity. Charity is when a person freely gives of his/her bounty to help others. Charity is personal.

Your choosing what to do with someone else's bounty is more akin to theft. At the very least, it's an abuse of private property rights. You get to choose what you do with your private property. I get to choose what to do with mine. I don't get to choose what you do. You don't get to choose what I do. I can't choose to take your money/property and give it to charity and make either one of us "charitable." It doesn't work that way.

That wasn't even a decent attempt at misusing the Bible to thump a Christian.

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to Tkman117)
Profile   Post #: 85
RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citiz... - 10/7/2013 6:14:16 AM   
crazyml


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Is your health care system so overwhelmed that the critically ill are put on waiting lists for life saving procedures and more often than not die before they can get treatment?


Nope!

There are waiting lists for non-life threatening procedures, but in general critical illness is handled very well.

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Profile   Post #: 86
RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citiz... - 10/7/2013 6:17:34 AM   
crazyml


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

Your choosing what to do with someone else's bounty is more akin to theft. At the very least, it's an abuse of private property rights. You get to choose what you do with your private property. I get to choose what to do with mine. I don't get to choose what you do. You don't get to choose what I do. I can't choose to take your money/property and give it to charity and make either one of us "charitable." It doesn't work that way.


Actually, government funding of things like healthcare is <finger quotes>democracy</finger quotes>.

And, I do salute you for your ability to twist the intent of Christian teachings to suit your purpose. But, I know that in your heart, Jesus would have viewed nationalised healthcare as a fabulous thing.

You know it... don't you!



_____________________________

Remember.... There's always somewhere on the planet where it's jackass o'clock.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citiz... - 10/7/2013 6:23:28 AM   
Lucylastic


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Amazing that using taxes to fund healthcare that works for ALL legal citizens is "theft" but ignores the "free market" extortion that pays one person millions of dollars a year in insurance, legal wonks , banking, pharma, etc etc etc

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(in reply to crazyml)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citiz... - 10/7/2013 6:37:26 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Free? The Dr. gets no reimbursement for a visit?

Free to the patient, incase that wasnt obvious. Its all part of the NHS budget. Incase you are wondering we pay less per capita than those in the US on health care.

So, it's not really "free," then. Co-pays for every insurance I've been on (and this is limited only to the plans that I was on, and is not intended to speak for every plan out there) for office visits was either $10 or $15. The rest was paid for by the insurance.
If it's free, then, it's free. If it's paid by the insurance, then it isn't free. If it's "free to the patient," then it should be labeled "free to the patient." But, "free to the patient" isn't really free, is it?

You don't understand the British system. It is not fee for service inside the NHS. The NHS directly employs the doctors. There is no fee for an office visit. The doctor gets paid as an employee of the NHS.


So, the Dr. gets paid whether or not you actually go to see him/her?

Thank you for the info. I did not know that differentiation.

Interesting PBS.org article.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citiz... - 10/7/2013 6:41:04 AM   
Lucylastic


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Status: offline
WIth the Ohip situation, you have to flash your ohip card for every visit to the doc, clinic, hospital visit.
SO docs dont overbill, yes it was an issue, One doc I know would inquire about family members and use that query as a "visit" They cant do that any more.

That being said, I do not know how the NHS manages it anymore, since I havent used a NHS doc since 1987

_____________________________

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<) )╯SUCH
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\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
/ \

(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
/ \

Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citiz... - 10/7/2013 6:57:48 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Your choosing what to do with someone else's bounty is more akin to theft. At the very least, it's an abuse of private property rights. You get to choose what you do with your private property. I get to choose what to do with mine. I don't get to choose what you do. You don't get to choose what I do. I can't choose to take your money/property and give it to charity and make either one of us "charitable." It doesn't work that way.

Actually, government funding of things like healthcare is <finger quotes>democracy</finger quotes>.
And, I do salute you for your ability to twist the intent of Christian teachings to suit your purpose. But, I know that in your heart, Jesus would have viewed nationalised healthcare as a fabulous thing.
You know it... don't you!


"Democracy?" How so?

Or, are you saying that government funding of healthcare is what government does/should do?

I do not agree that Jesus would see nationalized health care as fabulous. Jesus is not about the collective, but about the individual. Individual salvation was his preaching, not collective salvation.

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to crazyml)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citiz... - 10/7/2013 6:57:50 AM   
Yachtie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Oh FFS Dont start me off having to explain the simple meaning of words. It is free in as much as you dont have to pay any money, it comes from the public purse. NO ONE as ever claimed it is completely free.






Nice dodge. Most impressive Have a cookie. Here. It's free.

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Profile   Post #: 92
RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citiz... - 10/7/2013 7:01:23 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
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he didnt dodge it, he has never claimed its free, neither have I. We understand our systems run on tax payers, you obviously have no interest in the truth of the matter.

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Profile   Post #: 93
RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citiz... - 10/7/2013 7:01:35 AM   
Yachtie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Its paid for with everyones taxes,




Ah! The definition of free

You mean like say...B2 bombers ? I mean they are free too right ? I've never paid for one, have you ?



You must be hell on wheels playing Twister.

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citiz... - 10/7/2013 7:04:54 AM   
Lucylastic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri


Or, are you saying that government funding of healthcare is what government does/should do?


Your system is working well eh?

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Profile   Post #: 95
RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citiz... - 10/7/2013 7:07:51 AM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

WIth the Ohip situation, you have to flash your ohip card for every visit to the doc, clinic, hospital visit.
SO docs dont overbill, yes it was an issue, One doc I know would inquire about family members and use that query as a "visit" They cant do that any more.

That being said, I do not know how the NHS manages it anymore, since I havent used a NHS doc since 1987

I don't even recall flashing my BC med card, heck, I could never find the darn thing.. lol.. but I called my chiropractor who told me my number and I would tell the docs or clinics or vampires (blood testing) what it was.. I guess I have an honest face or somethin'..

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 96
RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citiz... - 10/7/2013 7:15:45 AM   
Lucylastic


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its only been in place for about a year and a half.... maybe a bit longer...and I dunno if its the same in other provinces:)

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Profile   Post #: 97
RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citiz... - 10/7/2013 7:22:00 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Or, are you saying that government funding of healthcare is what government does/should do?

Your system is working well eh?


I have to point out that you did not answer the question.

And, FYI, the US Government health care spending is already more than what other countries spend, as a % GDP. I've pointed that out in other discussions recently. So, how we're going to cut our %GDP down by increasing what we spend is beyond me.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 98
RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citiz... - 10/7/2013 7:23:34 AM   
freedomdwarf1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
FR~
I see most on this thread appear to have centred around hospitals and proceedural costs.
What about the other side of medical care??
Going to see your GP (physician) for instance??
What is the average cost in the US? $50 just to go to that appointment?
For nationalised healthcare, it's free and it doesn't matter if you have private medical insurance or not.
Any meds he/she prescribes is the same too - private medical insurance or not.
The only advantage you get with private medical insurance is you might be able to jump the queue for certain non-essential surgery.
And as has been said, many NHS doctors and theatre staff work on both sides - private and NHS.
Nationalised healthcare also allows those on low incomes/welfare to get free meds.
So the OH and I don't pay a bean for any of our meds and we can usually get to see our GP within a few days; even within the hour if it's urgent.
If we had to pay for each of the many we have, we just wouldn't be able to afford it.
Fair enough, over the years of paying 8% or so from my salary means I've probably paid for what I'm now using for free.
But surely, every working person paying 8%~ish while they are working is a damned site cheaper than some of the horror stories I have heard from friends in the US who can no longer afford private healthcare at all.
The system isn't perfect by any means but it certainly means that healthcare is free at the point of delivery for everyone.
Sure, some non-essential operations could be put back when more urgent cases drop in.
But even the private health care does that - everything is prioritised according to health risk.
I think, overall, it's a better system all round and because the government controls the purse, the big pharma's can't always demand such extortionately high prices.


Free? The Dr. gets no reimbursement for a visit?



I don't know how it works in the UK but in italy the family doctor recives an annual forfait for every patient who signs up with him/her, you choose one and go always to him.

Yep. Same sort of system here.
Each and every GP is paid a minimal fee for every patient he/she has on their list of registered patients.
For that, the patient has that doctor and can have as many visits or consultations as they like (for free) and the doctor also maintains that person's medical records - on the computer system as well as on paper.
If you relocate outside of your normal GP's catchment area, you just re-register with the local GP in your area and there's usually more than a handful to choose from. Your medical records are then transferred to your new GP so they have a full record of your condition and past ailments and what has been prescribed to you over the years.
None of this costs the patient a single red cent.
The same if you need to be referred to a specialist or have to go into hospital - the cost to the patient is ZERO!
And, as a side-issue from that, pre-existing conditions aren't a problem like with private insurance.
Now, if you are working and earning over a certain threshhold (£15,000pa?), you pay something like just over 8% of your income as N.I (National Insurance) and it covers all these expenses.
As a wage earner, you also pay for your prescription(s).
Children under 18, pensioners, and people on low incomes or benefits pay absolutely nothing.
The burden of costs is borne by those in work that are otherwise fit and healthy but still have to pay that N.I on their income as well as part of their tax payments.

Waay better than private medical insurance and shitloads cheaper for most people.

Sure, it ain't perfect and it is creaking and sometimes there is a long wait for non-essential surgery.
When I was earning a shitload of money (£3,000+ a week) I often wondered why I should be paying sooo much for something I got very little from. Now I'm older and reaping the huge benefits of such a system.
But for most people here, it's an absolute godsend and I wouldn't be without it.


ETA: Same for any emergency services like ambulances... absolutely FREE to the patient, regardless of their financial position or ability to pay.

< Message edited by freedomdwarf1 -- 10/7/2013 7:31:58 AM >

(in reply to eulero83)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citiz... - 10/7/2013 7:27:23 AM   
tj444


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Joined: 3/7/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

http://www.collarchat.com/m_4552598/tm.htm

I agree with the article you posted.. Something I have noticed about the US capitalist system (not just health care, but every facet it seems) is that the US makes every single thing so complicated with a long list of rules and loopholes.. yes, I like Canada's system cuz it is simple and easy to use without being massively expensive.. the difference between some tax rates in Canada vs the US is not all that great a divide (the last time I saw a comparison), especially considering that Canadian national heath care is funded in part by taxes..

Another thing too.. as I am a Canadian, I can go back to Canada at any time and get medical treatment, as far as I have heard, the only requirement (unless that has changed) would be that I live there for 6 months.. I wonder how Americans not living in the US will be affected by Obamacare.. can they go back to the US and get medical treatment and if so, what would the requirements be? hmmmm..

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 100
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