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RE: Weaponry, protecting what's yours - 7/9/2006 7:56:43 PM

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quote:

Make sure your weapon of home defense has 13 bullets in it to guarantee your own personal safety.

Sorry, but I disagree with you. My daughter pulled the gun one time on a man who broke in, took her only one shot to bring him down.
I have pulled mine, rarely miss.

Most of the policemen that I work with are trained to hit on the first shot. 99% are successful.

I am curious as to where you live that your statistics are so much worse?

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RE: Weaponry, protecting what's yours - 7/9/2006 8:04:07 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

quote:

Make sure your weapon of home defense has 13 bullets in it to guarantee your own personal safety.

Sorry, but I disagree with you. My daughter pulled the gun one time on a man who broke in, took her only one shot to bring him down.
I have pulled mine, rarely miss.

Most of the policemen that I work with are trained to hit on the first shot. 99% are successful.

I am curious as to where you live that your statistics are so much worse?

Your daughter got the 1 in 13 shots that hit the target. Give her a gold star.

Check gun statistics with the New York Police Department. They have kept voluminous records for over 100 years and are where the FBI go when they need to do a statistical study.

Im a bit curious how many of those 99% successful policemen you know have actually pulled their guns and fired it at an actual perpetrator? I would wonder where you live that the number of dead criminal bodies with police rounds in their heart is so high.

Does your city have a overabundance of excessive force lawsuits filed against your local police department because of the excessive number of dead criminals from police shootings.

Are they 99% successful because the human sized paper target on a wire 30 yards downrange has a bullet in the "heart" part of the target?

Sinergy

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(in reply to IrishMist)

RE: Weaponry, protecting what's yours - 7/9/2006 8:06:48 PM

realmanfordomme

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I dont see the need to own a gun , just the need for the right to own one! I dont have one because it could put me in a position where i might actualy need to use it ! i live within 2 miles of a notoriously dangerous city,for my area of the country . I am not going to live in fear of what MAY happen! if i was afraid of being broken into , i would move to another area! Joe

(in reply to IrishMist)

RE: Weaponry, protecting what's yours - 7/9/2006 8:11:14 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: realmanfordomme

I dont see the need to own a gun , just the need for the right to own one! I dont have one because it could put me in a position where i might actualy need to use it ! i live within 2 miles of a notoriously dangerous city,for my area of the country . I am not going to live in fear of what MAY happen! if i was afraid of being broken into , i would move to another area! Joe

I dont own a gun.

I have personal reasons I dont own a gun.

The government and police agencies get rid of their guns, and gun manufacturers stop making them by the truck load and selling them to ever psychotic nut with $50, and I will agree with gun restrictions.

Until then, I am in full support of the 2nd Amendment. Even if I dont truly believe that my owning a .357 will be much good when an M1A1 Abrams drives up my street to do unconstitutional things to me and my family.

But that is just me, and I could be wrong.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to realmanfordomme)

RE: Weaponry, protecting what's yours - 7/9/2006 8:12:33 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

quote:

Make sure your weapon of home defense has 13 bullets in it to guarantee your own personal safety.

Sorry, but I disagree with you. My daughter pulled the gun one time on a man who broke in, took her only one shot to bring him down.
I have pulled mine, rarely miss.

Most of the policemen that I work with are trained to hit on the first shot. 99% are successful.

I am curious as to where you live that your statistics are so much worse?

Your daughter got the 1 in 13 shots that hit the target. Give her a gold star.

Check gun statistics with the New York Police Department. They have kept voluminous records for over 100 years and are where the FBI go when they need to do a statistical study.

Im a bit curious how many of those 99% successful policemen you know have actually pulled their guns and fired it at an actual perpetrator? I would wonder where you live that the number of dead criminal bodies with police rounds in their heart is so high.

Does your city have a overabundance of excessive force lawsuits filed against your local police department because of the excessive number of dead criminals from police shootings.

Are they 99% successful because the human sized paper target on a wire 30 yards downrange has a bullet in the "heart" part of the target?

Sinergy

LMAO. Nice try. Statistics in Indiana are not the same as New York in relation to guns ( fired by police at perps ). However, your 'adrenaline' theory holds no substance. Not everyone is incapable of rational, coherent, FOCUSED, thought in the grip of excitement or fear. Granted, the crime rates in NY are much higher than here; the number of perps with guns is much higher. However, to state that when a person pulls a gun on another, for any reason, that their chance of hitting the target is 1 in 13...is a sweeping generalization that is not true in most instances.

In answer to your other question...No, when a police officer pulls their weapon on a perp, and fires that weapon...it's for a reason. In addition to this, we have the same laws that apply everywhere else. You don't pull a weapon unless you fear for your own life. Common sense.

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RE: Weaponry, protecting what's yours - 7/9/2006 8:20:21 PM

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It isn't "his theory"... I suggest you do a search on google that talks about the effects of adrenal states on human beings... Something that I learned about when researching PTSD.

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(in reply to IrishMist)

RE: Weaponry, protecting what's yours - 7/9/2006 8:24:23 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

In answer to your other question...No, when a police officer pulls their weapon on a perp, and fires that weapon...it's for a reason. In addition to this, we have the same laws that apply everywhere else. You don't pull a weapon unless you fear for your own life. Common sense.

I personally think if a police officer pulls their weapon on a perpetrator, in a heated engagement, they should empty the magazine into the perpetrator. While reloading, they should checkto see if the person they are shooting at is still moving.

But that is just me. I have a lot of police officer friends and I want them all to go home at night to their families.

I apologize that I was not clear with my question.

quote:

Most of the policemen that I work with are trained to hit on the first shot. 99% are successful.

I asked what your statistic about "hit on the first shot, 99% successful" actually meant. Would you please answer that question?

Thank you,

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to IrishMist)

RE: Weaponry, protecting what's yours - 7/9/2006 8:28:22 PM

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Hello A/all,

I was asked about statistics in New York.

http://www.theppsc.org/Staff_Views/Aveni/OIS.pdf

While these statistics may vary in Indiana, I suspect the differential is not as much as the poster challenging me thinks it is.

Enjoy!

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to Sinergy)

RE: Weaponry, protecting what's yours - 7/9/2006 8:30:47 PM

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Not allowed to own a firearm, so it does not matter one way or another.

I have taken self-defense though, and had to use it before. Comes in handy actually.

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RE: Weaponry, protecting what's yours - 7/9/2006 8:55:11 PM

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One really good weapon to keep handy at all times is a 10 foot pole, to avoid touching trainwrecks like this thread has become.

(in reply to Tikkiee)

RE: Weaponry, protecting what's yours - 7/9/2006 9:08:06 PM

Noah

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quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

...

Sorry, but I disagree with you. My daughter pulled the gun one time on a man who broke in, took her only one shot to bring him down.
I have pulled mine, rarely miss.

...

I'm a shooter. I can't think of a form of meditation I prefer to popping inanimate targets in mid-air. No exercise calms and centers me more efficiently, although working on my jump shot at a billiard table comes close. I like plinking at still targets too.

As such I have a question for you.

What are you doing so consistently and horribly wrong with your life that you keep ending up in situations where you need to shoot people? I mean shoot people often enough to use a term like "rarely" to describe your misses? That's so goddamn sad. And to bring up a child with that approach to life even sadder.

Visions of that televison program which follows the beleaguered police out among the the most pathetic strata of society crowd my head as I read some the posts in this thread.

Normal people, otherwise unremarkable, regular folks at every socioeconomic level--by the millions--use maturity, discretion, self-discipline and self and mutual respect to live long and fruitful lives together. They never put themselves or allow their charges to be in such a position as you have allowed yourself to become so tragically familiar with. Millions of people, IrishMist. Haven't you ever stopped to wonder how they manage to accomplish what has eluded you so completely?

If the best kind of life a person can build for himself and his family is one which relys for survival on frequent gunplay--or reasonable anticipation of any gunplay--then it is self-evident that he should be trying to acquire some living skills, not honing his killing skills.

(in reply to IrishMist)

RE: Weaponry, protecting what's yours - 7/9/2006 9:16:23 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SirDarkside357

That's one of the perks about living where I do....It don't matter where they fall, as long as they were on your property when you shot em.

Darkside

lmaooo...It sounds like your talking about possums or something.

(in reply to SirDarkside357)

RE: Weaponry, protecting what's yours - 7/9/2006 9:18:24 PM

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quote:

What are you doing so consistently and horribly wrong with your life that you keep ending up in situations where you need to shoot people? I mean shoot people often enough to use a term like "rarely" to describe your misses? That's so goddamn sad. And to bring up a child with that approach to life even sadder.

Part of this question was answered on the other side.

As for my daughter. I grew up around guns, and so has she. I would perfer that she know what they are capable of, instead of finding out the hard way. By the way, the man she shot; had stabbed me and was in the process of beating me with a baseball bat. She did what she knew she had to do, and I do not make excuses for that, nor am I sorry for the way I have raised her.

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RE: Weaponry, protecting what's yours - 7/9/2006 9:18:36 PM

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Kinda like what my Dom says... No one wins a fight and the best fight is the one you never had.

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RE: Weaponry, protecting what's yours - 7/9/2006 9:25:07 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Kinda like what my Dom says... No one wins a fight and the best fight is the one you never had.

Must be nice to live so perfectly
/shrug
Not all of us are given that choice, unfortunatly.

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RE: Weaponry, protecting what's yours - 7/9/2006 9:43:08 PM

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quote:

I asked what your statistic about "hit on the first shot, 99% successful" actually meant. Would you please answer that question

It means, that most who pull their weapons are going to hit their target on the first shot. You did not question WHERE the hit was, only if they hit. Now, if you were to question me as to whether 99% are fatal shots, the answer would be no.

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RE: Weaponry, protecting what's yours - 7/9/2006 9:49:28 PM

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Smack,

You are right, the ATF is more powerful than Bush and the Republican controlled congress and there is nothing they can do to control them. In fact I bet the whole mess is Clinton's fault.

As for the 2nd Amendment, it has nothing to do with hunting weapons and nothing to do with self protection. It is entirely about ensuring the people have the ability to deal with despots named George who think they are appointed by god as well as any other similar idiots.

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RE: Weaponry, protecting what's yours - 7/9/2006 10:17:57 PM

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For most folk who do shoot regularly at inamate targets I favour the human sized one and look at getting the majority of shots into the greater mass of chest however there are some folks who have additional training and better still life experience who use a double tap for me it is left eye - right eye.. But then again i still train at a minimum of three days a week on a combat range to geel my skills in and for fun.. Like so many skills which can and are taught for selfdefence, when faced with reality a lot of trainig goes out the window unless muscel memory can take over (like remembering to place finget on trigger after aquiring the target and switching the safety to fire). I'd rather see some one head to a safe area and avoid a possible lethal confrontation. Even assuming you re in the right and your kill is legal. You still have to live with the fact that you have taken something away from another human being that can never be returned - their life.. They will never walk, talk, smell a fresh pie or taste icecream or watch another sunset.. Yep we can all go chest thumping and justify our actions but my friends we also have to live with seeing the face of the deceased and or teir kith and kin in your nightmares or in the darkest hours when you can't sleep.... For every kill you make you loose a part of your humanity... This grizzly is not talking through his large arse, he knows from experience and more kills (human) than I want to remember....

< Message edited by IronBear -- 7/9/2006 10:42:34 PM >

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RE: Weaponry, protecting what's yours - 7/9/2006 10:32:01 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Kinda like what my Dom says... No one wins a fight and the best fight is the one you never had.

Must be nice to live so perfectly
/shrug
Not all of us are given that choice, unfortunatly.

Actually he teaches self defense and is encouraging me to take it also... you see that is what they teach you in self defense.. how to avoid a confrontation with someone so you do not have to fight them off... pretty effective too.... part of not needing a gun is staying away from situations which would necessitate their use. If you have to fight then you can learn ways to do so without a gun... and at 38 years old I haven't needed a gun yet.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to IrishMist)

RE: Weaponry, protecting what's yours - 7/9/2006 10:38:13 PM

Noah

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quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

Part of this question was answered on the other side.

As for my daughter. I grew up around guns, and so has she. I would perfer that she know what they are capable of, instead of finding out the hard way. By the way, the man she shot; had stabbed me and was in the process of beating me with a baseball bat. She did what she knew she had to do, and I do not make excuses for that, nor am I sorry for the way I have raised her.

So shooting some guy is the easy way where you come from? Do you hear what you are saying?

If I'm to believe your answer and consequent explanation of your answer on the "other side" then I imagine that every poster to this thread would join me in asking that you give your guns to someone responsible and get help immediately.

Your daughter can shoot. My kids can shoot. That's fine. Unfortunately guns aren't the only thing your daughter grew up around. Someone with your problem shouldn't be anywhere near a gun.

If I ever, by my bad choices, put my daughter in the way of having to shoot some bastard to save my life I wouldn't try to make excuses either. There aren't any. Nor can I see any excuse for the suffering you have caused to the families of your other shooting victims if the cause is indeed the one you cite.

If you don't know whom to call first thing in the morning about this, contact me and I'll get the information for you.

(in reply to IrishMist)

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