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RE: Dominant men recieving strap-on sex? - 3/28/2014 4:32:01 AM

Blueswordsman

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quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar

quote:

ORIGINAL: frunandsins
Clearly, we are all happy to transgress against social norms on sex, or we wouldn't be members here. So what, anal sex is the final frontier of man's sexual liberation?

I think you really struck on something there. I do think that straight men having anal stimulation is one of the last taboos out there. Hell, even watersports seem to get more widespread acceptance that the idea that a straight dominant man could get himself off by means of assisted anal stimulation.

Bullshit. Anal intercourse is not a final frontier for straight men or liberating. To suggest It is just more gay-feminist crap. I say no one needs to take it up the ass to be truly sexually free.

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RE: Dominant men recieving strap-on sex? - 3/28/2014 4:52:26 AM

FightingChains

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quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar

I think you really struck on something there. I do think that straight men having anal stimulation is one of the last taboos out there. Hell, even watersports seem to get more widespread acceptance that the idea that a straight dominant man could get himself off by means of assisted anal stimulation.

Ok, I'm going to be blunt and vulnerable here... I understand the difficulty dominant straight men have with the idea of being penetrated. I personally feel this difficulty myself as a gay man. I'm masculine, and it was hard for me to accept that there wasn't a contradiction between being a confident man and enjoying that. It FEELS like an affront to my masculinity.

For submissives, this isn't so much of an issue. They're just doing what the Domme wanted.

Men penetrate. It feels unmasculine and undominant to be as vulnerable as anal sex can make a man. Penetration isn't vulnerable - it's often surrounded by strength, force, power. It is extremely difficult for masculine minds to grasp the concept of dominantly receiving like that. Pain, and vulnerability, and thoughts like "this feels like not a man's role", "does this make me more like a gay man, and/or less of a man", "will she think I'm gay or less of a man", "will she think I'm not as dominant if I'm making myself this vulnerable" all come to mind.

It cannot be overstated how much this fucks with a man's head, including some gay men like myself. I find it easier to be penetrated when forced, because I don't have to face the psychological battle over my own masculinity. Asking for this type of activity is... beyond a no-go-zone. I had to pretty much tell my partner "you will have to force this or I will not let you do it" because my head fucked with me that much about it.

I can appreciate both of your positions - the mens', and UllrsIshtar's/FieryOpal's.

Can a dominant do it? Yes. Dominance is in the command, technically, not an act.

However, the level of vulnerability - physically, emotionally, and psychologically - that a man feels with regards to this is so much, I can see how he thinks it's submissive. After all... the submissive person is supposed to be the vulnerable person, right?

< Message edited by FightingChains -- 3/28/2014 4:55:13 AM >

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RE: Dominant men recieving strap-on sex? - 3/28/2014 5:01:19 AM

LadyConstanze

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Liking anal stimulation isn't dominant or submissive, it's liking anal stimulation, some guys like their prostate stimulated, it's just that, not gay, not submissive, not dominant.

I like deep tissue massages, quite hard so it does hurt, doesn't make me submissive, makes me liking deep tissue massages...

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RE: Dominant men recieving strap-on sex? - 3/28/2014 5:05:41 AM

UllrsIshtar

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Blueswordsman

I say no one needs to take it up the ass to be truly sexually free.

Of course no one needs to take it up the ass to be sexually liberated. But what you need to be sexually liberated is the ability to consider doing it... and it seems that said consideration is taboo for male straight dominants.

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RE: Dominant men recieving strap-on sex? - 3/28/2014 5:11:54 AM

UllrsIshtar

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FightingChains

Men penetrate. It feels unmasculine and undominant to be as vulnerable as anal sex can make a man.

It may very well be a gender thing then that's causing the divide, cause obviously for me as a woman, penetration is a natural part of sex. I can take it up the ass as easily when bottoming as when topping (which in neither case is that easy mind you

).

It would also explain why men so often feel blow jobs as dominant, while I tend to view them as dominant from my point of view (hell even back when I was a 24/7 TPE slave I felt in control giving head). For men it's the act of penetration that causes them to feel in control... while for me it's the fact that I control your orgasm with the flick of my tongue, can prevent you enjoyment even if you're forcefully face fucking me (which isn't so easily preventable during rape for instance) and well... got my teeth on your cock and often a hand directly on your balls.
To me, giving head exhumes a position of power, but I know from experience that men don't seem to think of it that way.

I'm trying to figure out if there is a revers to the vulnerability of anal sex to men, because of becoming the subject of penetration instead of actor in women's sexuality, and I'm so far failing to come up with one.

< Message edited by UllrsIshtar -- 3/28/2014 5:14:21 AM >

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RE: Dominant men recieving strap-on sex? - 3/28/2014 5:17:03 AM

LadyConstanze

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quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar

quote:

ORIGINAL: Blueswordsman

I say no one needs to take it up the ass to be truly sexually free.

Of course no one needs to take it up the ass to be sexually liberated. But what you need to be sexually liberated is the ability to consider doing it... and it seems that said consideration is taboo for male straight dominants.

I think it is a thing that mainly the older generation has, anything anal for a guy means they are gay or so, if you look at the young generation, if it feels good, they do it, they aren't worried about labels or how somebody else might view it. Pegging is now almost a vanilla act.

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RE: Dominant men recieving strap-on sex? - 3/28/2014 6:04:03 AM

FieryOpal

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quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar

It may very well be a gender thing then that's causing the divide, cause obviously for me as a woman, penetration is a natural part of sex. I can take it up the ass as easily when bottoming as when topping (which in neither case is that easy mind you ).
<snip>

When I hear other women on occasion talk about penetrative sex as being an act of submission, I feel as though I'm looking at somebody who just grew two heads. I don't feel that way about any sexual act, because I'm an active participant. Perhaps if I were the sort of female who only laid there and "endured" it until it was over, I could see how it would be submissive; or if I had ever been assaulted, that would skew my perception.

When FightingChains speaks of needing to be "forced," I have heard other gay men who share the same sentiment. Plus, I think guys in general get off on rough-housing. Then there are men who feel so guilty about having bisexual fantasies, that they secretly (or not so secretly) want to be placed in a "forced" bi position and commanded by a female to suck some guy's dick. If a guy wants to suck dick, I'm sure there are plenty of takers out there to accommodate this desire. Consequently, I won't do "forced" bi or "forced" anything (feminization, sissification, etc.). I don't play those silly-ass games.

Woman to woman, Ishtar, I don't know how long you've been doing this - nor is it anyone's business - but it gets easier the more often you do it.

After the first half dozen times (spanning nearly 2 years), no pain other than initial entry, which relaxation techniques took care of. I was married at the time so I had a trusted partner who waited for me to give him cues, and I have to agree with Blueswordsman that no one should feel induced to have anal sex. Ever. In that sense, there is more integrity in consensual BDSM acts than in vanilla relationships because there are husbands/partners who will harass their wives/partners until the woman is so soured by the idea, that she couldn't enjoy it even if she wanted to. Not everyone is anal-erotic either.

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RE: Dominant men recieving strap-on sex? - 3/28/2014 6:10:58 AM

UllrsIshtar

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal

Woman to woman, Ishtar, I don't know how long you've been doing this - nor is it anyone's business - but it gets easier the more often you do it.

Yeah yeah yeah... everybody keeps saying that but 10 years later it still hasn't happened.

I initially tense up to much, and it usually takes me forcing myself past the pain to get to relaxing enough to actually enjoy it... although I must say it is really enjoyable after that. Because of that I tend to go more for force/rape when going anally then when topping, but that's mainly because logistically it's easier to not have to worry about pacing myself.

Either way, my husband's not that into it, so it's not an issue atm.

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RE: Dominant men recieving strap-on sex? - 3/28/2014 6:16:55 AM

FieryOpal

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quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar

Yeah yeah yeah... everybody keeps saying that but 10 years later it still hasn't happened.
I initially tense up to much, and it usually takes me forcing myself past the pain to get to relaxing enough to actually enjoy it... although I must say it is really enjoyable after that. Because of that I tend to go more for force/rape when going anally then when topping, but that's mainly because logistically it's easier to not have to worry about pacing myself.

Either way, my husband's not that into it, so it's not an issue atm.

Oh, he's not? Cuz I was going to say he must be hung like a bull if you're still having difficulty or discomfort.

Which reminds me of one boyfriend I used to have. He'd never been successful before with his past girlfriends due to his size--and it's the girth, really, not so much length. I literally put him out of commission one weekend. It took a week for the rubbed-raw sore spots on his member to heal....

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RE: Dominant men recieving strap-on sex? - 3/28/2014 6:23:38 AM

FightingChains

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal

When FightingChains speaks of needing to be "forced," <snip> I don't play those silly-ass games.

I'll try not to take that offensively...

< Message edited by FightingChains -- 3/28/2014 6:35:27 AM >

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RE: Dominant men recieving strap-on sex? - 3/28/2014 6:39:42 AM

FieryOpal

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FightingChains

quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal

When FightingChains speaks of needing to be "forced," <snip> I don't play those silly-ass games.

I'll try not to take that offensively...

Please don't mix-up primal aggressive play, which is an intensely erotic form of edge play, with "forced" bi/"forced" feminization, which is what I was specifically referring to. I won't collude with men pretending to be totally straight when they aren't.

When it comes to the primal play or OTHER forms of consensual non-consent, that's another story.

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RE: Dominant men recieving strap-on sex? - 3/28/2014 6:46:12 AM

UllrsIshtar

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal

Oh, he's not? Cuz I was going to say he must be hung like a bull if you're still having difficulty or discomfort.

Well he is, but that's besides the point.

Besides, it's not just with him that I've had trouble. I've even done the whole 'work your way up in size' with plugs. It's not the size that's the issue, it's the apprehension and inability to relax. I've very effectively trained myself to anticipate pain, which tenses me up, which causes pain, which makes me anticipate pain the next time.

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RE: Dominant men recieving strap-on sex? - 3/28/2014 7:05:02 AM

FightingChains

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal

Please don't mix-up primal aggressive play, which is an intensely erotic form of edge play, with "forced" bi/"forced" feminization, which is what I was specifically referring to. I won't collude with men pretending to be totally straight when they aren't.

When it comes to the primal play or OTHER forms of consensual non-consent, that's another story.

I think the key issue you really have around game play is people trying to pretend they're something they're not.

I am honest with my partner that I don't like being that vulnerable, so it's not something I'm going to give him. He can take that if he wants it. I don't view that as a game.

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RE: Dominant men recieving strap-on sex? - 3/28/2014 7:21:37 AM

FieryOpal

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FightingChains

I think the key issue you really have around game play is people trying to pretend they're something they're not.

I am honest with my partner that I don't like being that vulnerable, so it's not something I'm going to give him. He can take that if he wants it. I don't view that as a game.

No, it's really not. I started out playing role-playing games in my marriage (very limited before then). I have nothing against mutually consensual game-playing, horsing around, or any of that, whether done playfully or in earnestness.

It boils down to monogamy. Anything that necessitates the introduction of a third party is a nix. A BIG FAT NIX. I have nothing against bisexuality as long as it doesn't affect me personally.* I have nothing against polyamory as long as others are not being used or taken advantage of under the aegis of polyamory, when it's actually a license to practice polyfuckery. Not to slut-shame, but if the shoe fits, then those who are licentious can wear it. (Not to skip over onto another subject again either!)

Do you see where I am making the distinction, now that I've gone into more detail? [rhetorical, no need to respond

]

ETA: Giving credit where credit is due, I came across the term "polyfuckery" originally thanks to a post made by kalikshama.
* Further, I have nothing against sissies and/or cross-dressers, but I have no desire to fuck one.

< Message edited by FieryOpal -- 3/28/2014 7:45:43 AM >

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RE: Dominant men recieving strap-on sex? - 3/28/2014 7:53:24 AM

kalikshama

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quote:

Bullshit. Anal intercourse is not a final frontier for straight men or liberating. To suggest It is just more gay-feminist crap. I say no one needs to take it up the ass to be truly sexually free.

As a feminist, I say risk-aware consenting adults should do whatever they like.

As a submissive, I say I'm glad my man is not interested in being anally penetrated as I have not enjoyed doing this with other partners.

He was able to get me to overcome my dislike of being on top.

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RE: Dominant men recieving strap-on sex? - 3/28/2014 7:55:27 AM

kalikshama

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quote:

ETA: Giving credit where credit is due, I came across the term "polyfuckery" originally thanks to a post made by kalikshama.

I heard it first here on CC, but have forgotten by whom

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RE: Dominant men recieving strap-on sex? - 3/28/2014 7:59:18 AM

Blueswordsman

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Now hear this.Anal sex is a dangerous sexual behavior and can cause serious internal injuries, countless infections, twisted bowel, etc, etc., etc. Some people just consider it shitty.

LadyConstanze their are dozens or reasons not to want something up your ass. I don’t think age is one of them. When I was younger than you …WE DID IT !!!! As exciting as it was to get her to DO IT, I discovered anal wasn’t as pleasurable as vaginal intercourse. Once you pass the sphincter mussel the bowel opens widely. It is like fucking a board with a half inch tight hole attached to a large jar of air. I’m sure most men that have fucked both an ass and vagina will agree. I see ass play without anal intercourse just as exciting. If you're ever in NYC I'd be delighted to present you with two bullet vibratos, lubed condoms and the keys to my Nightster for the night. Try it and it may be the only thing you would ever want up there again.

goddess of logic, a straight male does not need to kiss another man romantically or shove something up his ass to be sexually liberated. The END of the end

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RE: Dominant men recieving strap-on sex? - 3/28/2014 8:10:04 AM

LadyConstanze

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It might come as a great surprise to you, a lot of men like their prostate stimulated, that you don't want it and that you are on about dangers (most doctors will disagree btw.) doesn't mean that the same goes for everybody.

As for offering me 2nd hand vibrators, thanks I pass, luckily I could afford my own.

I'm not particularly fond of anal, in fact for myself it's a hard limit, but that's for me, tons of people find it enjoyable and pleasurable, and if you didn't know, pegging is actually not a guy giving a woman anal sex, it's guys getting anal from a woman with a strapon, which is pretty common for a lot of people in their twenties.

Btw I am not deaf, so no reason to shout, just consider if what you would say would be remotely true, there's a large gay population out there and a large population of heteros who have anal sex, they manage to do it without damages or twisted bowels...

You know somebody once told me an anecdote, Joan Baez wrote Love Song To A Stranger Part 2, which ends with "So I concluded my thoughts on the past, that love is a pain in the ass!' To which Neil Young replied "It's only painful if you're doing it wrong!"

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RE: Dominant men recieving strap-on sex? - 3/28/2014 8:18:00 AM

EligibleOwner

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FightingChains

I understand the difficulty dominant straight men have with the idea of being penetrated. I personally feel this difficulty myself as a gay man. I'm masculine, and it was hard for me to accept that there wasn't a contradiction between being a confident man and enjoying that. It FEELS like an affront to my masculinity. ...

Men penetrate. It feels unmasculine and undominant to be as vulnerable as anal sex can make a man. Penetration isn't vulnerable - it's often surrounded by strength, force, power. It is extremely difficult for masculine minds to grasp the concept of dominantly receiving like that. Pain, and vulnerability, and thoughts like "this feels like not a man's role" ... come to mind.

It cannot be overstated how much this fucks with a man's head

I really don't want to reopen a discussion that's now finished as a far as I'm concerned.

But I must point out the remarkable similarity between what you've said here, about "masculine minds" and your ability to understand how some straight men might feel about being penetrated (you make a very good point, I think), and my earlier suggestion about how many straight submissive women might feel about the same sort of thing in relationships with straight dominant men.

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RE: Dominant men recieving strap-on sex? - 3/28/2014 8:29:59 AM

UllrsIshtar

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Blueswordsman

[size=5
goddess of logic, a straight male does not need to kiss another man romantically or shove something up his ass to be sexually liberated. The END of the end

I never said anything about a straight man doing anything, let alone kissing, another man.

And I've already said that nobody needs to do any act to be sexually liberated. The requirement for sexual liberation is that they need to be able to do is consider the idea of engaging in the act without culturally taught feelings of shame or taboo.

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