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RE: Only Positive?! - 12/15/2013 11:59:22 AM   
ChatteParfaitt


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Ah now I've got it. Your friend was raped and it's CollarMe's fault.

All righty then.

I'm sorry that happened to your friend. Frankly I'm sorry rape happens to anyone, male or female. I wish very much we lived in a world where rape didn't exist. Alas, it does exist, and unfortunately people meet rapists in bars, in the grocery store, at their place of work, and every other place rapists hang out and look for prey. I'm sure every dating site on the planet has some rapists trolling for victims.

Again, this is very tragic and regrettable. I fail to see how it's CM's fault, or why you'd come here bad mouthing the profile side here in the forums. What do you expect to get out of it except a nasty argument so that you can vent some of your (well deserved) anger?

Your anger and the ensuing energy might be put to more good use volunteering for a rape victim's hotline, or in some other advocate role.

< Message edited by ChatteParfaitt -- 12/15/2013 12:00:04 PM >


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RE: Only Positive?! - 12/15/2013 12:04:10 PM   
SylvereApLeanan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

There are many posts in many forums about bad experiences. Do you need me to look some up for you?


No kidding. You want bad experiences? Go to the Poly forum or the Ask A Sub forum or Ask A Mistress or Ask A Master...the list is almost endless. We could successfully argue that every other section of the message boards not specifically dedicated to one topic, such as Creative Writing or Recipes, contains multiple threads about bad experiences.

As far as personal experiences go, I've met several people from here. I would classify one, in particular, as a bad experience. My ex-play-partner seemed like a great guy. He was smart, funny, enjoyed a lot of the same geeky things I do...we should have been ideal playmates, right?

Not so much. He turned out to be a pushy, do-me bottom and emotionally abusive on top of it. He treated me like crap and then tried to gaslight me into thinking it was my fault. Fuck that noise. Eventually, I told that douchecanoe exactly what I thought of him and cut him out of my life completely.

But wait, there's more!

He emailed me a couple of months ago and apologized for everything. We've been corresponding ever since. He's in a long-term relationship with a woman who's more compatible on the core values about which he and I have irreconcilable differences. He's doing fairly well and is happy. I'm happy for him. That reminds me, I'm overdue to reply to his latest email.

Oh, was that not the bad experience anecdote you were looking for? Sorry. Not sorry.



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RE: Only Positive?! - 12/15/2013 12:09:35 PM   
angelikaJ


Posts: 8641
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First, for your friend:
http://www.rainn.org/

1.800.656.HOPE

Perhaps you could hold her hand and help her dial.

A kinky website is not any more dangerous in terms of meeting safe people.

There are multiple non-dating sites that deal in BDSM; since collarme is a dating site, that may exclude it (depending on how your friend is defining a dating site).
Fetlife is not a dating site.

We can talk about negative experiences... as long as blacklisting isn't involved.
So no, you can't use names or other identifying information.

Perhaps instead of focusing on the negative you could actually do some research on on-line dating safety and put links up in the Health and Safety forum.

There are mixed opinions on the value of safe calls.
As long as one does not use them as a reason to eschew common sense, I think they can offer an additional measure of safety.

Meeting in public places is generally a good idea.
Not getting into a car with a stranger and not going directly home after a meet are some other things people do to have a safer meet.

Going on a date with anyone (blind dates set up by friends included) you don't know can be a risk.
So can going on a date with someone you do know, and even someone you think you know well.
Many rapes and sexual assaults are not committed by strangers.





< Message edited by angelikaJ -- 12/15/2013 12:11:25 PM >


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RE: Only Positive?! - 12/15/2013 12:14:38 PM   
AmandaPeace


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I get that the goal is to sell this experience to people and tell them that it's all awesome all the time, but that's not very responsible.

And what I'm saying is that it's irresponsible to create a prominent space for people to post *only* positive messages without creating a similarly prominent space for other experiences.

Simply put this encourages more positive reports than negative ones and makes the positive ones much, much easier to find than the negative ones.

As for "boi"'s quote "But to try and claim people can't mention negative experiences anywhere on the site is wrong." - I think you know that's not what I said.

Incidentally, Apocalypso "naming names" is not against libel laws. Truth is always a defense against "libel." Though I do appreciate your goth quote.

And it's really disturbing that you're so unfazed by the idea of your community members raping other community members. I would think that would raise some kind of note of concern, but it appears not.

It seems you're 100% committed to attacking victims and that's... well that's really sad.


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RE: Only Positive?! - 12/15/2013 12:17:10 PM   
kalikshama


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quote:

A friend of mine was recently raped by a guy she met online.

...I don't know what site she met this guy through, but she told me it "wasn't exactly a dating site" and it was related to BDSM. That sounds a lot like this site.


I've met dozens of guys from this site and others and have had exactly one bad experience, for which I take the majority of the responsibility because I did not pay attention to the red flags he set off. Since then, I've been more careful, listened to my gut, and never, ever skipped the vanilla meeting, and everything has been fine.

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RE: Only Positive?! - 12/15/2013 12:20:24 PM   
kalikshama


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quote:

Incidentally, Apocalypso "naming names" is not against libel laws. Truth is always a defense against "libel."

I'm perplexed that you think libel laws would apply to a privately owned website.

quote:

And it's really disturbing that you're so unfazed by the idea of your community members raping other community members. I would think that would raise some kind of note of concern, but it appears not.

It seems you're 100% committed to attacking victims and that's... well that's really sad.

This is very close to a personal attack, which is also not allowed here, and also a gross mischaracterization of what was said.

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RE: Only Positive?! - 12/15/2013 12:26:34 PM   
AthenaSurrenders


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I missed the part where anyone attacked rape victims?

First off, I would argue that we're not a community - it's a website with thousands of members, the vast majority of whom will never meet or talk to each other. So we're a community only in the same sense that a country is a community - very loosely.

Rape is an awful, terrible, disgusting thing. It's also disturbingly common. There are rapists on collarme, no doubt about it. I'd be pretty surprised if there were no rapists on my own housing estate, too. Statistically speaking, you are much, much more likely to be raped by someone you already know that someone you meet for a date.

I honestly don't see that it would prevent anyone getting raped if we had another forum entitled 'negative experiences'. I would be interested to know how you think this would help?

We do frequently talk about how to keep safe. I'm sorry your friend got hurt - really, genuinely sorry - but I don't see that this site's decision to have a positive experience forum is anything to do with that event.

For the record, I worked in the police sexual offenses unit of a big city for a couple of years, so I am not naive about rape nor it's potentially devastating effects.

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RE: Only Positive?! - 12/15/2013 12:29:48 PM   
SylvereApLeanan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AmandaPeace

And it's really disturbing that you're so unfazed by the idea of your community members raping other community members. I would think that would raise some kind of note of concern, but it appears not.

It seems you're 100% committed to attacking victims and that's... well that's really sad.



Oh, FFS...



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RE: Only Positive?! - 12/15/2013 12:31:07 PM   
myotherself


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Joined: 3/9/2006
From: The cold bit of the UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AmandaPeace

I get that the goal is to sell this experience to people and tell them that it's all awesome all the time, but that's not very responsible.



If you actually read the boards, you'd see that there is a huge amount of 'not awesome' going on. You don't like 'positive experiences'? Don't go there. Instead, hang around the rest of the boards and read all the negative stuff.

quote:


And what I'm saying is that it's irresponsible to create a prominent space for people to post *only* positive messages without creating a similarly prominent space for other experiences.


People are supposed to be responsible for themselves. If they ONLY go to 'positive experiences' and believe that all bdsm is wonderful and everyone who meets anyone from cm is ecstatically happy, and don't read the other stuff, then quite frankly they should reconsider whether they're responsible enough to be on the internet.

quote:



Simply put this encourages more positive reports than negative ones and makes the positive ones much, much easier to find than the negative ones.


I disagree. The sheer quantity of moaning, whining and bitching that gets onto the boards is a damn sight easier to find than the occasional "hey, we've met and s/he is nice!" thread. It's only harder to find the negative stuff if you don't bother to read 'general bdsm' or 'ask a master' or 'ask a submissive' or 'ask a switch' or 'ask a mistress' or 'off topic' or...well you get the idea.


quote:



Incidentally, Apocalypso "naming names" is not against libel laws. Truth is always a defense against "libel."


You may be correct, I don't know. But I do know that the site rules you agreed to say 'no blacklisting'. So you can't do it.

quote:


And it's really disturbing that you're so unfazed by the idea of your community members raping other community members. I would think that would raise some kind of note of concern, but it appears not.



Just...wow. Did you read the responses? Did anyone say it was ok for someone to be raped? Really? Of course we are concerned! That's why a fair few of the responses outlined the advice we give to people who are considering meeting offline. Rapists are not 'community members'. They are predators looking for victims. And you will find them on ALL dating sites, so singling out collarme as some kind of a hotbed of rape is just silly.

quote:




It seems you're 100% committed to attacking victims and that's... well that's really sad.




You're not a victim. Your friend is. I understand why you want to help her and support her, but coming on here and accusing perfectly decent people of being rape-enablers and attacking victims is just...really sad.



edited to correct formatting

< Message edited by myotherself -- 12/15/2013 12:33:01 PM >


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RE: Only Positive?! - 12/15/2013 12:31:33 PM   
angelikaJ


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There is no actual proof that someone from our community raped your friend.
Just because a man claims to be a dominant doesn't mean he is one... no matter how many places he claims to be a member of... or references he has.... .

You are making so many assumptions here and it is unfortunate because it is getting in the way of helpful discussion.

I am sorry your friend was raped.
Even if she was raped by someone she met here (and your friend hasn't stated that), it is not the website's fault.
That would be like saying it is her fault for having such terrible judgement.
This is a free website.

The person who committed the illegal act is the one who is responsible.

You say that the truth is a defense against libel.
But in this case, there is no proof of what the unidentified truth is.
The truth as it were has no legal standing.
There is no criminal complaint.
No paper trail.
No possibility for a conviction.


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RE: Only Positive?! - 12/15/2013 12:32:46 PM   
RedMagic1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AmandaPeace
And it's really disturbing that you're so unfazed by the idea of your community members raping other community members. I would think that would raise some kind of note of concern, but it appears not.

I'm not in a "community" with people who put up a profile on a free-of-charge site. How could I have any effect on their behavior? How does someone else's bad behavior tarnish me?

I'm pretty sure there has been exactly one rape conviction out of the tens (or hundreds) of thousands of in-person meets through CM. At the same time, CM has, without a doubt, allowed more kinky people to find partners and marriages than any other single thing since the dawn of modern BDSM. As tacky and sleazy as this place is, when you add everything up since 2004, and compare it to alternatives, it's quite impressive.

By contrast, multiple people have been killed after meeting off CraigsList.

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RE: Only Positive?! - 12/15/2013 12:32:58 PM   
AmandaPeace


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Again - confronting people who are dealing with the immediate aftermath of rape by saying that they're whining or being "dramatic" is just beyond the pale of decency.

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RE: Only Positive?! - 12/15/2013 12:36:16 PM   
RedMagic1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AmandaPeace
Again - confronting people who are dealing with the immediate aftermath of rape by saying that they're whining or being "dramatic" is just beyond the pale of decency.

Are you saying we shouldn't take your words seriously because you're in pain? I'll stop taking you seriously if that's what you want me to do.

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RE: Only Positive?! - 12/15/2013 12:37:24 PM   
freedomdwarf1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AmandaPeace
I get that the goal is to sell this experience to people and tell them that it's all awesome all the time, but that's not very responsible.

Nope. Absolutely NOT.
But there *IS* just ONE topic thread devoted to good experiences.
It was created specifically because most of the rest of the threads and other topics are just crammed full of negativity.
YOU decide to post on that thread that was wasn't positive - so it got moved (and rightly so).

Can you not see where you fucked up??

quote:

ORIGINAL: AmandaPeace
And what I'm saying is that it's irresponsible to create a prominent space for people to post *only* positive messages without creating a similarly prominent space for other experiences.

Your lack of comprehension astounds me.... it really does.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AmandaPeace
Simply put this encourages more positive reports than negative ones and makes the positive ones much, much easier to find than the negative ones.

It is only ONE freekin' thread amongst dozens and dozens of others.
Are you trying to be obtuse or does it come naturally??

quote:

ORIGINAL: AmandaPeace
Incidentally, Apocalypso "naming names" is not against libel laws. Truth is always a defense against "libel." Though I do appreciate your goth quote.

But it is against site rules that you chose to abide by when you joined.
If you decide to break those rules you'll be chastised for it and even expelled.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AmandaPeace
And it's really disturbing that you're so unfazed by the idea of your community members raping other community members. I would think that would raise some kind of note of concern, but it appears not.

It seems you're 100% committed to attacking victims and that's... well that's really sad.

That's just your perception. I can't help that.

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RE: Only Positive?! - 12/15/2013 12:40:53 PM   
AmandaPeace


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I don't see how that follows at all "Red."

I think you should take what I and others say seriously.

Adding a forum section for people to talk about negative experiences seems like a basic and reasonable step.

Not attacking people for sharing negative experiences seems like another (and let me tell you, this community seems to have a *serious* problem with that).

As for the many other comments on here that seem to make up something that I said and attack me on the basis of that fabrication... please go back and read what I actually wrote.

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RE: Only Positive?! - 12/15/2013 12:41:00 PM   
Apocalypso


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Joined: 4/20/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AmandaPeace
And what I'm saying is that it's irresponsible to create a prominent space for people to post *only* positive messages without creating a similarly prominent space for other experiences.


I can tell you exactly what would happen if you created that subforum. Genuinely important negative experiences like your friends would be entirely drowned out by things like:

* Posters who think that someone not being interested in them makes them a "fake".
* Posters who are outraged that hotgirl4u69 turned out to be a 57 year old carpet fitter called Dave.
* Posters using it to carry out vendettas against their exes and/or their exes new partners.

It would also need near 24/7 moderation to stop names being used. I'm not necessarily against the idea in principle. It simply strikes me as unworkable in practice.

quote:

Simply put this encourages more positive reports than negative ones and makes the positive ones much, much easier to find than the negative ones.


Apart from, as people have pointed out, Off Topic is way more high traffic then Positive Experiences. Honestly, I can't remember last time I bothered reading the latter.

quote:

Incidentally, Apocalypso "naming names" is not against libel laws. Truth is always a defense against "libel." Though I do appreciate your goth quote.


Sure, it's an absolute defense at that.

But no website has the investigatory capability to check if the allegation is true or not. That's what would lead the site to risking being hit with a libel suit. The issue is the possibility of false allegations, not true ones.

quote:

And it's really disturbing that you're so unfazed by the idea of your community members raping other community members. I would think that would raise some kind of note of concern, but it appears not.


It's not that people are unfazed. It's that your proposed solution wouldn't, at least in my view, do anything at all to mitigate that risk. For that, you need the far less 'glamorous' solutions people have proposed like encouraging people to meet in public etc. And, sadly, even that can only minimise risk. It can't be eliminated entirely, much as I'd like it to. And that's not unique to BDSM or even meeting people online. It's equally the case if you meet someone in a nightclub.

I can genuinely understand where you're coming from. In the situation you find yourself in with your friend's terrible experiences, it's human nature to look round for some kind of solution. Apart from anything else, it feels better to at least to be trying to do something rather then feeling impotent and unable to help.

Unfortunately, it doesn't mean that any solution that you can think of is necessarily going to be a good one. And, as people have been trying to tell you, the one you seem to have latched onto just isn't one that will help stop this kind of awful experiences happening to anyone else. It's at best ineffectual and at worst actively counterproductive. I say the latter because the proposed negative experiences subforum would be equally available for a rapist to use...

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RE: Only Positive?! - 12/15/2013 12:43:17 PM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
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quote:

Again - confronting people who are dealing with the immediate aftermath of rape by saying that they're whining or being "dramatic" is just beyond the pale of decency.


SylvereApLeanan will correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe she gave the Drama Llama stamp to your gross mischaracterization of Apocalypso's words, not your friend's plight.

Saying this:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Apocalypso

Apart from that's not what happens to the posts, unless you name names.

Which you can't do, because libel laws.


Equals this:

quote:

ORIGINAL: AmandaPeace

Incidentally, Apocalypso "naming names" is not against libel laws. Truth is always a defense against "libel." Though I do appreciate your goth quote.

And it's really disturbing that you're so unfazed by the idea of your community members raping other community members. I would think that would raise some kind of note of concern, but it appears not.

It seems you're 100% committed to attacking victims and that's... well that's really sad.


Is indeed melodramatic.

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RE: Only Positive?! - 12/15/2013 12:45:01 PM   
SylvereApLeanan


Posts: 8275
Joined: 11/1/2007
From: Hell
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AmandaPeace

Again - confronting people who are dealing with the immediate aftermath of rape by saying that they're whining or being "dramatic" is just beyond the pale of decency.


I call bullshit.

You are not confronting the aftermath of a sexual assault. Your friend is. Unless, of course, your "friend" doesn't exist and it's really you who was sexually assaulted. In either case, there is no evidence that she (or you) were raped by someone from CollarMe. So your whiny little diatribe is complete and utter bollocks.

I've been sexually assaulted and oh, guess what...it wasn't by anyone from CM. It was by the husband of my best friend at the time. Should I go running to a random message board claim that omigawd, there are *men* on this site and a man assaulted me so there should be a dedicated section on the site to talk about the horrible experiences people have had with men? Because that's what you're doing.

If you really want to do something positive for your friend, then you've received multiple suggestions. Really, I think you need to get some therapy yourself. You've demonstrated a histrionic and, possibly, narcissistic personality. You should seek professional help.


_____________________________

Sylverë
Dark Muse
30 Fluffy Points
Grumpy Cat is my spirit animal.
Shadow Governess & Mean Girl
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RE: Only Positive?! - 12/15/2013 12:46:28 PM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AmandaPeace
I think you should take what I and others say seriously.

Then answer the questions in my post, and engage in a logical dialogue. Unless you are just screaming and you want attention, in which case please continue posting dramatically, instead of logically.

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to AmandaPeace)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Only Positive?! - 12/15/2013 12:48:11 PM   
Apocalypso


Posts: 1104
Joined: 4/20/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama
I'm perplexed that you think libel laws would apply to a privately owned website.

They absolutely would do, if someone was libeled. In the US, CM would probably be immune from liability, but it could lead to serious issues in other countries with more stringent libel laws.

(If anyone wants to know my credentials when it comes to talking about libel laws, they're welcome to send me a mail on the other side).

_____________________________

If you're going to quote from the Book of Revelation,
Don't keep calling it the "Book of Revelations",
There's no "s", it's the Book of Revelation,
As revealed to Saint John the Divine.

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Profile   Post #: 40
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