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RE: Only Positive?! - 12/15/2013 12:52:34 PM

kalikshama

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Apocalypso

quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama
I'm perplexed that you think libel laws would apply to a privately owned website.

They absolutely would do, if someone was libeled. In the US, CM would probably be immune from liability, but it could lead to serious issues in other countries with more stringent libel laws.

(If anyone wants to know my credentials when it comes to talking about libel laws, they're welcome to send me a mail on the other side).

I was referring to AmandaPeace's suggestion that she is free to name names as "Truth is always a defense against "libel."" :)

< Message edited by kalikshama -- 12/15/2013 12:53:39 PM >

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RE: Only Positive?! - 12/15/2013 12:56:37 PM

RedMagic1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama
I was referring to AmandaPeace's claim that she is free to name names as "Truth is always a defense against "libel."" :)

In the eyes of the law, no rape has been committed unless there is a conviction. So AmandaPeace and her friend might both believe that Uberdom4u6969 committed a rape, but it isn't "true" unless it's legally true. And since her friend doesn't want to pursue the case, it's probably impossible to prove what really happened beyond a reasonable doubt.

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RE: Only Positive?! - 12/15/2013 12:58:06 PM

SweetAnise

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To the OP, I get what you're saying and I read through the thread. I think your idea to create a forum for negative experiences and not just positive ones are great suggestions. I also agree members tend to jump on the negative bandwagon here. There are reasons for that but I won't speculate. I would suggest contacting an Admin and talking to them about your desires. You never know they may hear you out.

I am really concerned that your friend doesn't wish to report her rape. I would suggest that you have her call a hotline go to RAINN and encourage her to go to the hospital to at least get checked out. She does not have to report anything but at least get examined. Get the book Recovering from Rape. She also needs counseling try The Kink Aware Professional Network NCSF very kink friendly. It will help her.

I would be more concerned about taking care of your friend than anything else.

< Message edited by SweetAnise -- 12/15/2013 12:59:19 PM >

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RE: Only Positive?! - 12/15/2013 12:58:29 PM

Rawni

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If there were a section for negative experiences, with some tweaking of a few things and going by the no name rule, it would be one of the heaviest used sections and many regulars would love the fact that all that negativity was in one place and not scattered all over the forums. I don't think many would complain about that.

For me, this is where things start to unravel and I have worked in rape crisis and have been raped, so I do get a few of the issues involved. Not every person that cries rape is actually raped or even assaulted. I know how some will wish to sweep it under a carpet and not tell the people that can actually do something about it, but those that do this are more a threat to themselves and others because they do not tell and let a guy run rampant who is a rapist. Now, can we be accused of blaming the victim if we expect them to take legal recourse? Would the site or any other be irresponsible in requiring that the victim take legal recourse before naming names? If you will note, there are post that talk about real news in a number of areas, where real names are listed and even a couple throughout the years, where a member of CM made it to the news.

A couple of years ago, I read some journals of two women. I was alarmed at what I was reading there and watched the situation rather closely. In these journals they were accusing a man, by his user nick of beating a woman so badly that she was hospitalized. He stole her money and took off. Now, these women were outraged, to the point of making threats. The member was a regular poster on the forums. Every time I saw this guy I gritted my teeth because the story given was so real and yet I kept waiting for more to evolve so that I could get to the truth. Guess what happened? Nothing. No legal case, no criminal case... a flat bottom line. Still, I wondered about the guy. So, wait a few years and this guy is meeting other women... not just a couple. Guess what? Nothing... no other reports and the guy is still around, apparently enjoying himself with no complaints from anyone that I have seen and believe me, I have looked.

Even with red flags and people warning people of others, have you ever met those that will not listen, pay attention or do what is smart? Whether it is youth, neediness, emotional or mental illness or just plain stupidity thinking nothing will ever happen to them and they are immune, people do stupid shit. That doesn't mean that if they do stupid, that they cannot then be a victim! The problem is that if one is a victim, they often have some things to learn AND they really need to do the right thing. This will help in their recovery and protect others as well.

We cannot expect that a site creating a section for complaints... to validate every complaint, because eventually they would have to with some of them, and blaming those that really can do nothing about a predator, when the local authorities haven't even been called is a focus gone south.

Narrowing in on a site, that may or may not even be involved as a meeting place in this situation and calling them irresponsible because they don't have a specific section for negative experiences, is rather telling when the real authorities aren't even involved. A victim does need a friend and a friendly ear, but most of them need a bit more than that and as a friend, you should encourage those things. Professional help, legal assistance to get that guy off the street and protect others. Shirking the responsibility onto an online community when one hasn't seen to it that people are actually protected from a real threat you know about is very sad and I think the saddest part of this thread.

The knee jerk response when someone we care about is hurt is understandable... but after that point, it is time to get down to some basics. Report, get help and heal.

< Message edited by Rawni -- 12/15/2013 1:02:52 PM >

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RE: Only Positive?! - 12/15/2013 1:00:45 PM

AmandaPeace

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Wow - I see everyone is editing their posts and revising things that I later responded to. Interesting.

But to clarify, it wasn't my intent to single out Apocalypso for blaming the victim (read "you're" as "y'all" in that sentence).

I was responding to people who said that my friend was stupid to get raped.

And indeed even all of the really well-intentioned advice I've seen has focused on questioning my friend's actions or decisions that may have led to her getting raped or suggesting that she act differently in the future. And that's pretty crazy when you think about it, right?

I taught women's self-defense courses when I was and undergrad in college, so I'm guilty of this stuff too, but maybe talking about rape needs to be a broader conversation than just asking girls to do things to mitigate their chances of being a victim.

And indeed, sometimes our society hides information that we could use to make better decisions that would help with even with that piece of the picture.

So yes, I think it's a mighty minimal step, but people shouldn't be systematically discouraged from sharing negative experiences on this site and that it should be given equal space and encouragement to positive experiences.

I think it's very hard to rectify that detractors both claim that there's already even more space for negative content than positive AND that creating this new thread would lead to more negative content which is bad. I don't get that.

If we want to leave out names, that's fine. I can tell that's a real hot-button issue for you all and I didn't bring that up anyway.

And again, don't get me wrong - I think it's great that people have positive experiences and share them.

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RE: Only Positive?! - 12/15/2013 1:02:11 PM

angelikaJ

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Some of us edit our posts because we hate typos.

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RE: Only Positive?! - 12/15/2013 1:02:25 PM

RedMagic1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SweetAnise
To the OP, I get what you're saying and I read through the thread. I think your idea to create a forum for negative experiences and not just positive ones are great suggestions.

They are "great suggestions" that have been made and debunked thousands of times.

http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=1163969

She is, of course, welcome to create any forum she wishes on another site. As already noted on this thread, the most active bad CM experience site is a disaster. And, frankly, what else can you expect when you foster complaints and gossip?

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RE: Only Positive?! - 12/15/2013 1:03:53 PM

freedomdwarf1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

quote:

Incidentally, Apocalypso "naming names" is not against libel laws. Truth is always a defense against "libel."

I'm perplexed that you think libel laws would apply to a privately owned website.

Actually, depending on where you live, what you say on a website, even the Social Media sites, can land you in hot water with the authorities.

Just because it's a privately owned website doesn't give it, or its members carte-blanch on what is made public.

Just one example -
"A recent ruling in a U.S. federal court says that if you post something on Facebook, your friend can share that information with the police — it's not a violation of your privacy"
Source: http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/technology-blog/facebook-court-ruling-share-facebook-admissible-evidence-165545087.html
And I'm sure there are other cases where a website and member's content have been subject to legal proceedings.
Similar proceedings have happened in the UK too.

Just sayin'

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RE: Only Positive?! - 12/15/2013 1:05:12 PM

AmandaPeace

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Again, I didn't come here to talk about a particular case.

Just to suggest an exceedingly humble addition to the site that might help people make better decisions.

And that resulted in a flood of attacks and defensiveness that seems to have kind've exploded here.

I'm not wanting to attack this site or this community. I'm just humbly suggesting a minor and common sense change to the forum threads.

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RE: Only Positive?! - 12/15/2013 1:06:56 PM

Rawni

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Women who get raped may or may not have been stupid. That doesn't take away from an actual crime that needs to be legally handled. Expecting others not involved to do something other than advocate and take part in helping victims get legal recourse is a redirect of what should actually be happening. Rather than aruge it with strangers, why not take some action on behalf of your friend and do something about it.

These forums have been used to make warnings of various types and believe me, if you need a proper section to make these warnings, you are missing the point.

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RE: Only Positive?! - 12/15/2013 1:09:00 PM

RedMagic1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AmandaPeace

Again, I didn't come here to talk about a particular case.

Just to suggest an exceedingly humble addition to the site that might help people make better decisions.

And that resulted in a flood of attacks and defensiveness that seems to have kind've exploded here.

I'm not wanting to attack this site or this community. I'm just humbly suggesting a minor and common sense change to the forum threads.

I understand that you feel powerless, maybe for the first time in your life. Ironic, or extra painful, if you taught self-defense classes and this happened anyway.

But this is a semi-anonymous web site, not a court of law. There is no way to present evidence. What if I posted "AmandaPeace is a predatory lesbian who rapes women." And then created multiple profiles that told stories about you doing that. What recourse would you have?

Use the court system to prove things. Use real life to fight for people.

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Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
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RE: Only Positive?! - 12/15/2013 1:10:40 PM

SweetAnise

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RedMagic1 isn't a blacklist is where you name names. Where negative experiences is simply discussing your experience i.e. "I went out on a date with dom and he got a phone call from his wife. I was shocked and wanted to leave right away but I didn't have a ride back home. So I ended up staying the whole date and now I feel like sh*t about it. I just needed a place to to say what I feel and any thoughts on this would be appreciated."<-----This is FICTION but wouldn't that be what Amanda is asking for? Instead of, "Daneil45 is an asshole! And should be burned to the ground!! He is a fake!!"<---Isn't that a blacklist?

< Message edited by SweetAnise -- 12/15/2013 1:11:28 PM >

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RE: Only Positive?! - 12/15/2013 1:14:28 PM

RedMagic1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SweetAnise
I went out on a date with dom and he got a phone call from his wife. I was shocked and wanted to leave right away but I didn't have a ride back home. So I ended up staying the whole date and now I feel like sh*t about it. I just needed a place to to say what I feel and any thoughts on this would be appreciated.

That's the content of 90% of posts by women to the board Ask A Submissive.

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Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
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RE: Only Positive?! - 12/15/2013 1:16:09 PM

SweetAnise

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Amanda you mentioned your friend being raped not us. So...you have to expect someone to talk to you about it at least mention it...obviously it was important enough to bring up. Right? You could have brought up something else? Anyway hope you friend gets help.

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RE: Only Positive?! - 12/15/2013 1:17:20 PM

SweetAnise

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RedMagic

LOL...indeed.

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RE: Only Positive?! - 12/15/2013 1:17:58 PM

SylvereApLeanan

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

What if I posted "AmandaPeace is a predatory lesbian who rapes women." And then created multiple profiles that told stories about you doing that. What recourse would you have?

Don't forget about all the posts generated by other people that fall into the folie a deux/mass hysteria category. "Oh, it's true; that AmandaPeace did the same thing to me/my friend/my sister-in-law's cousin twice removed." How would anyone tell the difference between the legitimate posts and the fake four-lesbian BDSM poly households?

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RE: Only Positive?! - 12/15/2013 1:22:11 PM

Rawni

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ROFL Sylvere!

The op may not get that one, so, let's just say that a group of five decided to take the forums on, but actually they were a group of one. Many believed their many stories and all hell broke loose. A few got hurt, some got banned, many hopefully learned you can't believe all you hear even when there are multiple witnesses and a public message board isn't where you handle legal, mental health or real serious issues.

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RE: Only Positive?! - 12/15/2013 1:26:14 PM

kalikshama

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quote:

I was responding to people who said that my friend was stupid to get raped.

Again, you've mischaracterized.

You said:

quote:

I strongly suspect that meeting someone through a website with an immediate goal of putting one of them in bondage might lead to some crappy, even life-threatening situations.

The reply, post 15:

quote:

First, why would anyone let some stranger tie them up? That would be just plain stupid. Dating online here is like dating anywhere online. You have to be careful. You have to meet in safe places. You have to get to know each other and develop trust.

Was before you said:

quote:

A friend of mine was recently raped by a guy she met online.

In post 18.

And that's the last time the word "stupid" was mentioned until Rawni's post, and she did not say your friend was stupid to get raped either.

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RE: Only Positive?! - 12/15/2013 1:27:29 PM

angelikaJ

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AmandaPeace

Again, I didn't come here to talk about a particular case.

Just to suggest an exceedingly humble addition to the site that might help people make better decisions.

And that resulted in a flood of attacks and defensiveness that seems to have kind've exploded here.

I'm not wanting to attack this site or this community. I'm just humbly suggesting a minor and common sense change to the forum threads.

You could begin a thread on general safety and rape prevention on the health and safety forum.
Posts that derail it (outside of normal thread drift) would get pulled.

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RE: Only Positive?! - 12/15/2013 1:28:27 PM

SweetAnise

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Don't scare Amanda away people. I like that she boldly went where no one wants to go.

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