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RE: What can we do to retain new posters? - 12/17/2013 6:47:14 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: igor2003
Bingo!

One thing I see over and over now (and which I find irritating), is when a new person shows up they are greeted with the current, universal, key-word of the moment...DISCUSS.

They are told:
Welcome to the DISCUSSION side.
or
People come here to DISCUSS things.
or
We have lots of great DISCUSSIONS here.
etc.

But when they actually ask a question or try to start a DISCUSSION, they are told:
Go read this thread...
or
Go read that thread...
or
Go read the FAQs...
or (and this one is really the sign of a jerk)
I'm not here to do your research for you...

And FFS, if you are a mod-wanna-be, and you admonish a newbie about having violated a ToS rule, how about citing exactly which section and paragraph you are claiming they violated...just to show that YOU know what the hell you are talking about. I think it is rather frequent that these wanna-be's get it wrong, and if the newbie goes to look it up and can't find it they are going to be less likely to post again for fear of violating some other rule that they can't find.

It's a bit off topic for this thread but I actually do want to address this. I've seen this statement before and I think it's getting twisted into something it's not.

More than anything else, I use that report feature for people putting their personal ad on the forums. I happen to like the fact that the areas for topics really are for topics and aren't littered with posts by folks who just say they are looking for a Mistress, a third for their poly home, or whatever other personal relationship they are trying to find. It's one of the things that I really do happen to like about CM. In fact, I tend to keep towards the same groups on Fet where personal ads are closed or removed by Mods over there as well.

As to linking old threads, I'm absolutely going to stand up for the fact that I do. Frankly, there are some posts that were written years ago that are pure gold and might just have been the best information on a particular subject than I've ever seen. I've probably linked the "BDSM Book List" thread at least a hundred times because there's way more information in there than anybody is going to type out every time a question related to it comes up. (I was actually the person who wrote Support to ask for that thread to become a sticky.) The "How To Find A Woman Here" thread is still some of the best advice going and the poster who crafted it isn't a member here anymore.

It may not be your definition of "discussion" when people link old threads but when people have written posts on a subject that are far better than I could have done, giving them additional information isn't a bad thing as far as I'm concerned.



_____________________________

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Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to igor2003)
Profile   Post #: 101
RE: What can we do to [train] new posters? - 12/17/2013 7:13:49 PM   
SylvereApLeanan


Posts: 8275
Joined: 11/1/2007
From: Hell
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: igor2003
Bingo!

One thing I see over and over now (and which I find irritating), is when a new person shows up they are greeted with the current, universal, key-word of the moment...DISCUSS.

They are told:
Welcome to the DISCUSSION side.
or
People come here to DISCUSS things.
or
We have lots of great DISCUSSIONS here.
etc.

But when they actually ask a question or try to start a DISCUSSION, they are told:
Go read this thread...
or
Go read that thread...
or
Go read the FAQs...
or (and this one is really the sign of a jerk)
I'm not here to do your research for you...



As to linking old threads, I'm absolutely going to stand up for the fact that I do. Frankly, there are some posts that were written years ago that are pure gold and might just have been the best information on a particular subject than I've ever seen. I've probably linked the "BDSM Book List" thread at least a hundred times because there's way more information in there than anybody is going to type out every time a question related to it comes up. (I was actually the person who wrote Support to ask for that thread to become a sticky.) The "How To Find A Woman Here" thread is still some of the best advice going and the poster who crafted it isn't a member here anymore.

It may not be your definition of "discussion" when people link old threads but when people have written posts on a subject that are far better than I could have done, giving them additional information isn't a bad thing as far as I'm concerned.




I'll add to this and point out that telling someone to "read the FAQ" or "use the search feature" is not stifling discussion. It's to help the person posting find the information they're looking for without beating dead horses. That's what the damn things are there for. Could the Search feature be optimized? Sure, but it does work if people will stop being lazy for five minutes and use it.

If newbies don't want to read anything and just want to post their thoughts willynilly, that's what the journal feature is for.

On another note, I took a minute to look at the threads Chi linked to as inspiration for this thread. Three of them boil down to the OP's failure to communicate effectively or using an inappropriate style of communication for their location. Several of the suggestions offered come down to teaching new posters to fit in with the established culture.

It may be that asking how to retain new posters is the wrong question. A better question might be how to attract the type of posters who will feel comfortable and shine within this culture or how to train newbies to fit in with the regulars. Sorry, Gamma...I know you want to turn the focus away from the regulars, but I don't see how you can divorce the issues when retention is going to be based in large part on how well newbies assimilate.


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(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 102
RE: What can we do to retain new posters? - 12/17/2013 7:34:57 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		There is nothing you can do.
This forum is no different from any other forum I've ever been on. It ebbs and flows.

there are times that things will run smoothly and you will have newcomers who stay. You will have times when newcomers go running away. And you can't please everyone. You coddle and you get complaints. You don't coddle and you get complaints. It's just differences in personalities that will always class on a forums board.

Just wait a few months and things will flow again and then 6 months later it will ebb again and so on and so forth. It's human nature.

ETA: I do have one suggestion. Start a forum section called "For Sensitive Souls". It is only for those people to post who have thin skins and need their own little place to talk without feeling as though they will cry anytime someone disagrees with them or won't tell them what they want to hear. Any disagreements or words that don't sound fluffy are not allowed.


< Message edited by littlewonder -- 12/17/2013 7:39:29 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 103
RE: What can we do to retain new posters? - 12/17/2013 7:55:20 PM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline 		This is something I've puzzled over. In some cases, timid newbies ask a stupid question and get jumped on. On the other hand, some of the newbies are darn near hostile. There has to be a happy medium of how to treat them.



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The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

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Profile   Post #: 104
RE: What can we do to retain new posters? - 12/17/2013 8:04:15 PM   
Blonderfluff


Posts: 2253
Joined: 10/9/2013
From: Down the Shore
Status: offline 		I'm still pretty much a newbie. And it's not rocket science. I came over here because something caught my eye on the scrolling "as the chat turns". I read. I saw what type of threads were received well. What wasn't. And I STILL said a few stoopid things. Shit. I'll probably say more. I'm not gonna freak or cry or stomp my foot and complain when someone tells me so.
The newbies that want to stay and post, will. The ones here for a drama fix will get it. And then hide their profile.


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Profile   Post #: 105
RE: What can we do to retain new posters? - 12/17/2013 8:07:25 PM   
VideoAdminGamma


Posts: 2233
Status: offline 		I will likely take you up on this. More information after the new year. If anyone else is interested in helping new members to the forums (just the forum area) please contact me.

Thanks,
Gamma

quote:

ORIGINAL: SylvereApLeanan


quote:

ORIGINAL: VideoAdminGamma

I do like the idea about a section for "New to the Forum". We could move the Intros there, have some better FAQ's and a Q&A area for new folks to ask questions about the etiquette and functionality here.


Since I helped write the Ask A Mistress FAQ and gave Alpha permission to more or less copy and paste what I wrote with a few minor tweaks for the general forum FAQ, give me a shout if you would like help organizing a newbie section. I will be more than happy to help out with that project.



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Profile   Post #: 106
RE: What can we do to retain new posters? - 12/18/2013 1:47:05 AM   
MariaB


Posts: 2969
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline 		I don't agree that its because we have a lot of sadists on board. How would that explain the submissive reactions to a lot of posters? A sadist is someone who looks forward to bumping into the proverbial online bitch at a club and not use the keyboard as a weapon they can hide behind.

I'm not sure how I feel when I hear people say things like, 'they should put their big panties on' and so on. In the flesh I'm highly protective of nasty goings on towards other people. I've even got into a fight or two when crowds are being scum bags and making a victim out of someone who I deem doesn't deserve it. People on the UK scene know never to bad mouth another person to me or direct unnecessarily bitchy comments in my direction. I'm not overly protective but there's nothing I hate more than a bully or vindictive gossip and the cowardly sheep that follow them.

We aren't void of emotions. We have sensitive days and we have smart days. There's been times I've replied to a topic here on a sensitive day and I've been slated. My fault, I should of stayed away but sometimes you don't know your having a sensitive day until someone says something that upsets you. I'm glad I'm like that. I'm glad I'm not so hard nosed that I can say anything to anyone and not give a rats ass if I've hurt their feelings. I'm glad people, even if its just on line can hurt my pride because if I was void of emotion, what would that say about me as a person? and before you claim its only online and just pixels on a screen, that doesn't explain why we like some of the posters and dislike others and neither does it explain our compassion, care and support when a member goes through troubled times.

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Profile   Post #: 107
RE: What can we do to retain new posters? - 12/18/2013 1:52:33 AM   
MariaB


Posts: 2969
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline 		The market is much bigger than America but for some reason not many Europeans come on here compared to other sites. If you go to a munch in the UK everyone swaps details of what site they can be contacted on. Its rare to get asked if you are a member of CM and if you do ask, you are normally told, 'wow no, the forums are so aggressive'. When IC closed its door it dumped 15,000 British members. My question is, why didn't a good chunk of them come here?

I think a safe haven for new members (newbie has so many connotations!) is a good idea. They can venture into other forums but I don't think established members should venture in unless they have something positive to say.

LadyPact, I haven't been privy to nasty going on FL but even if I did, that site is so big, its easy to move on and find alternative groups. You can't do that here.

< Message edited by MariaB -- 12/18/2013 1:53:26 AM >

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RE: What can we do to retain new posters? - 12/18/2013 2:33:47 AM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline 		I think it's funny that people need suggestions on how to retain new or old posters.

Really? If that is your biggest problem in life, kudos to you.

This is a free site, no one owes you a specific experience and you cannot change anyone's behavior other than your own.

I agree that some people are here expecting connections.

To me, that is why people frequent message boards. I just joined a site to find support about my medical situation. I don't expect anything and if I find help and good wishes and education, then it was positive. If people act like assholes, it won't be.

You cannot "fix the internet behavior". This is not a brick and mortar club, it is online. Everything here is ephemeral unless you meet in person.

Just because this is a BDSM site, does not make it more likely that people will understand or empathize. In fact, for those who say that their level of experience helps newbies, I say your experience is subjective and newbies should take it all with a grain of salt.

In the end, to be more fun and interesting on any site? Post fun and interesting topics.

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Profile   Post #: 109
RE: What can we do to retain new posters? - 12/18/2013 3:30:13 AM   
ChatteParfaitt


Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline 		These are great suggestions:

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha



Here are a few humble suggestions.

If someone is already reading a new poster the riot act and giving them shit, forum regulars should resist temptation to "pile on." One snarky post is enough - not five. If you already see someone has been bitched at, why the need to add to it?

Second, stop the inter-convos between regulars, inside jokes, and "pile on" where two or more posters all congratulate each other during the aforementioned beat down. It comes across as bully behavior and is unnecessary. keep the inside jokes to Polls & Random Stupidity. The one-liner "inside joke" posts meant to impress each other are transparent.

Akasha


I know I've been guilty of both those behaviors, and I can see from the outside looking in how it's perceived as the forums here being so brutal.




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RE: What can we do to retain new posters? - 12/18/2013 3:41:07 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB
LadyPact, I haven't been privy to nasty going on FL but even if I did, that site is so big, its easy to move on and find alternative groups. You can't do that here.

I will definitely give you that. The entire layout is different.

This part is more general comment and not directed at you, Maria.

Some of this is not exactly constructive. It doesn't just happen here, but it happens fairly frequently on other threads, too. How often do we see folks who post on a thread, don't bother answering the OP at all, but their main purpose on the thread is to complain about the way other people have responded? Then, ask how often that is really successful?

Really, as long as somebody is within ToS and the forum guidelines, one poster trying to dictate the posting style of another just doesn't seem to be the way to go about it. If any individual poster doesn't like certain words, phrases, or methods, the answer is pretty simple. Don't use them yourself. At the same time, have the understanding that other people have a different posting style.

Plus, I think we have to take into account that not all new posters *want* to be patted on the head. Sure, plenty of them only want to be told what they want to hear, but they aren't the only demographic. There are also some who *do* want people to express their honest opinions and don't want it all dressed in fluff. Since the same method doesn't work for everyone, isn't it kind of a good thing that we have a mix?



_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

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Profile   Post #: 111
RE: What can we do to retain new posters? - 12/18/2013 3:55:19 AM   
Apocalypso


Posts: 1104
Joined: 4/20/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB
I'm not sure how I feel when I hear people say things like, 'they should put their big panties on' and so on.

It would at least be more convincing if it was being applied across the board, as opposed to just to newbies.

Whereas, actually, I'm pretty sure that at least some of the people calling for it would react very negatively if it was them or one of their friends being insulted. And if their personal problems were mocked all hell would break loose. Including letters to the mods etc.

_____________________________

If you're going to quote from the Book of Revelation,
Don't keep calling it the "Book of Revelations",
There's no "s", it's the Book of Revelation,
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RE: What can we do to retain new posters? - 12/18/2013 4:07:29 AM   
FieryOpal


Posts: 2821
Joined: 12/8/2013
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EventideFortuna

Stop the "regulars" from being back seat mods.

The amount of posters who think they know or understand the ToS when they really dont, and harp, jump or otherwise degrade new users is extremely discouraging.

If your not a mod, simple, DONT mod, theres a button to report. Report it and keep your comments to yourself about what it is you like dont like would like to change.

The thing is regardless of if its the internet, your a sadist or whatever other thing you want to say... is it doesnt excuse piss poor behavior. Ive met several previous posters who have left as well as several forum regulars, they are NOTHING in real life like they are online because the reality is, there are no serious consequences for being a dick to someone online.

Warn the people who tell others how to post. Sure is it annoying to see a personal ad? Eh, Ive met several partners who posted something as a personal over here. Is it frustrating to see the same thread again and again and again, Eh not really.

If these things bother you, professional help is available to you.

My impression as someone new to this site who has only clicked on these forums a half dozen times is that there is too much melodrama being played out in discussions to hold my interest. Other people may enjoy watching train wrecks, and if these forums are intended for entertainment value, then they can knock themselves out. I, for one, had higher expectations. I may not have 20 years' worth of experience in this lifestyle - not quite 1/3 of that - but I am a newbie to the Collarme & Collarchat culture(s). This is the last place I would seek out any coddling, yet I don't need to be exposed to or be witness to so much intolerance. The "real" world is already saturated with negativity.

I can't really comment on EventideFortuna's post quoted above, but it does seem to have a ring of truth to it. There are 3 people I know who warned me in advance about the forums. I think that says a lot coming from savvy folks who aren't thin-skinned and who always give sensible advice. As for sado-masochists getting a free pass to practice their kink, there is no free pass without consent. Did any posters give their consent in advance, or do some here operate on the principle of implied consent contained in any of the forum guidelines? Not from my own personal experience here, but it isn't just the sadists who lash out without provocation, it is the masochists as well who appear to take delight in having an outlet for what might possibly be their repressed, otherwise unexpressed dark side with "virtual" impunity.

What is meant by "submissive" answers has escaped me. Meaning polite, sympathetic, or helpful? We are all adults here, presumably.

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RE: What can we do to retain new posters? - 12/18/2013 4:10:30 AM   
Apocalypso


Posts: 1104
Joined: 4/20/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
I will definitely give you that. The entire layout is different.


Also, John fucking Baku. That's why I'm not on FL any more, for the record.


quote:

Plus, I think we have to take into account that not all new posters *want* to be patted on the head. Sure, plenty of them only want to be told what they want to hear, but they aren't the only demographic. There are also some who *do* want people to express their honest opinions and don't want it all dressed in fluff. Since the same method doesn't work for everyone, isn't it kind of a good thing that we have a mix?


I'd agree with that totally. There are absolutely times when new posters want and/or need to be told that something is "fucking stupid" or that they need to use their common sense. But I think we're at risk of setting up a false dichotomy here. It's not a decision between either mollycoddling new posters or being a cock to them. There's a whole lot of ground in between those two extremes. And I don't see how the "me too" posts that people have been talking about (and I'm not pretending I've never joined in) can be seen in any way as useful or constructive. At best, they're just showing off in an amusing manner. At worst, it's just a bunch of people validating each other.

To flip back to something you said earlier, I have to say that I actually don't think you're a particularly abrasive poster nor do I think you come across badly in text. While you can be brusque (often necessarily so), I see you as one of the more level headed and calm posters on here. You certainly focus a lot more on issues when you disagree, then you do people. And I've very rarely seen you join the "pile on". Funny how people's impressions of us can be so different from how we think we come across, no?


_____________________________

If you're going to quote from the Book of Revelation,
Don't keep calling it the "Book of Revelations",
There's no "s", it's the Book of Revelation,
As revealed to Saint John the Divine.

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Profile   Post #: 114
RE: What can we do to retain new posters? - 12/18/2013 5:25:27 AM   
ChatteParfaitt


Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline 		I don't see a lot of melodrama except for P&R which I rarely visit. You do see some nasty posts on the trainwreck threads, but they don't happen often enough (for me), and are generally some troll, like the positives experiences person, who is not in the least interested in discussing a damned thing.

Trolls are only interested in stirring up shit, and if you want to do that in *this* forum, yeah I'd say wear your fireproof typing fingers, b/c you will get flamed.

The group reaction to a troll is not melodrama to me, it's entertainment.

Several people, myself included, attempted to gain clarity from the OP and actually have a conversation. The OP was nasty and insulting to Angelika, who is perhaps one of the sweetest and most even tempered reg who posts here. To me that means the OP wants to get down and dirty, that people oblige is part of being on a discussion forum.

Someone way back (sorry I don't remember who) mentioned what we really need are more threads with solid topics. I very much agree. But it's hard to even find those threads when we're inundated with whiners, fin dommes, wankers wanting a fix, etc.

I also agree that the mods should mod and the rest of us stay out of it. That's great in theory. In practice, not so much. IMO< the mods don't really mod, they basically clean up the mess. If there were more mods in the forum, they could take care of things like: Pros or fins advertising in the intro area, other inappropriate threads in the intro area, newbies asking questions that need clarity, wankers looking for wank fodder, the kind of crap the regs attempt to handle b/c no one else is doing it.

I've had more than one room of my own on IRC, I was the main mod, I handled all that stuff. This is a much larger forum and to do all that they need more mods. Most especially happy greeter mods that can steer new posters in the right direction and attempt to educate them about the group culture.



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RE: What can we do to [train] new posters? - 12/18/2013 7:07:05 AM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SylvereApLeanan
"use the search feature" is not stifling discussion.

I have tried many times to use the search function and it SUCKS!!! totally totally SUCKS.. usually its trying to find someone's post on a recent thread and when I try to search for it, rarely ever does it show up... I end up having to find some other means to find it or simply forget it.. As far as I am concerned, using search is worse than nothing.. so telling someone to use the search function (how does anyone know if they already tried?) just makes me cringe cuz to me, search is useless.. that is one thing on this site that could stand a total overhaul to get it to work the way it should.. just sayin'..

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RE: What can we do to retain new posters? - 12/18/2013 7:10:43 AM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt
happy greeter mods

ok that made me laugh.. and think of Walmart..

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RE: What can we do to retain new posters? - 12/18/2013 8:40:57 AM   
theshytype


Posts: 1600
Status: offline 		FR

Telling someone to suck it up and put their big girl/boy panties on is about as fair or reasonable as telling regulars to lighten up and play nice. I don't have thick skin by any means but feel I do a fine job of web mingling with stronger personalities, or just ignoring them because, really, their thoughts, as intelligent as they may be, are lost in their tone anyway. I didn't grow a thick skin, and I don't expect to be coddled. I don't think anyone needs to change in that aspect to gain newbies in the forums.

I do believe, however, that the piling on of comments regarding grammar or tos violations to be a bit much. Duplicate threads are not allowed, why are duplicate posts?

I don't believe there is much that needs to be done to gain newbies. Maybe just changing the color of the link on the other side to make it stand out more? I really dunno. Didn't take me long to find it.

Regardless of what's done, people are only going to stay if they want to. I have a personal goal to stay until at least one person thinks I am a good contributor to the forums. I could be here forever. Sorry.

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Profile   Post #: 118
RE: What can we do to [train] new posters? - 12/18/2013 8:50:14 AM   
ChatteParfaitt


Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline 		But think about it Fet has NO search function for their threads.

I agree it's incredibly clunky. It so many years out of date even I think it's old.

ETA: Can I pass out the greater vests? Can I? Can I?

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RE: What can we do to [train] new posters? - 12/18/2013 9:54:44 AM   
SylvereApLeanan


Posts: 8275
Joined: 11/1/2007
From: Hell
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: SylvereApLeanan
"use the search feature" is not stifling discussion.

I have tried many times to use the search function and it SUCKS!!! totally totally SUCKS.. usually its trying to find someone's post on a recent thread and when I try to search for it, rarely ever does it show up... I end up having to find some other means to find it or simply forget it.. As far as I am concerned, using search is worse than nothing.. so telling someone to use the search function (how does anyone know if they already tried?) just makes me cringe cuz to me, search is useless.. that is one thing on this site that could stand a total overhaul to get it to work the way it should.. just sayin'..


Really? Because I've used it many times with no problem at all. I could have started a thread but I used the search feature instead. It did require experimenting a bit with keywords and/or user names to find the information I wanted but I found it. If I can do it so can everyone else.

As far as knowing whether or not someone tried the search feature, I tend to assume, perhaps wrongly, they haven't used it unless they mention looking and not finding the information they wanted. This is especially true for topics I know for a fact are covered in the FAQ or are such old chestnuts that we've had dozens of threads about the topic. Really, how hard is it to find a thread about scammers, findommes, how many people are into XYZ, or the difference between sub and slave? If they can't use the search to find those topics, there's something very wrong and they probably shouldn't be allowed on the internet.

I think most people just want to see evidence that newbies have put in some effort before they post. A brief statement along the lines of "I searched for X but didn't find it; could someone point me in the right direction or provide an answer in this thread" or "I read the FAQ and used search to look for A but found B, E, and J and that's not quite what I need" is easy and I don't think it's unrealistic to expect newcomers to do it.


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(in reply to tj444)
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