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is religion a tool created to control knowledge - 1/8/2014 2:19:07 AM

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which came first religion or knowledge?is knowledge power? is knowledge something we seek? is knowledge something we strive to improve in everyday life? is knoowledge the root of evil? why do people want to know more? how does knowledge relate to religion? does knowledge begin in religion? what does your religion say about knowledge?

of some one wants to chat i'd welcome coments i urge you to voice your opinion on the subject.

i got into the conversation with a friend the other day and we stayed up for two days talking about the subject and came up empty its a very confusing topic and i want serious responses only. how do you feel what are your opinions

RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge - 1/8/2014 3:14:00 AM

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It depends how do you understand religion and knowledge. Religion itself is a knowledge. I guess you mean many organized religions sometimes injecting certain relatively rigid belief systems. Still, I do not think there is a conspiracy to control knowledge. It is rather an attempt to create a structure for religious practices. Atheism could be on the same standing restricting wider understanding of the reality. A majority of scientists are religious.

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RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge - 1/8/2014 3:20:50 AM

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so was is it a sin or a fault to seek knowledge based on christanity

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RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge - 1/8/2014 3:23:01 AM

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lets base this disscusion on christanity if we can

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RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge - 1/8/2014 3:25:32 AM

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based on christanity

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RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge - 1/8/2014 3:50:05 AM

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quote:

so was is it a sin or a fault to seek knowledge based on Christianity

How can it be sin? Allegedly, the United States was founded based on Christianity. Rigid interpretation of religious text (or any other text) certainly is not a good idea and basis.

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RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge - 1/8/2014 3:56:38 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bubbabarrett31

which came first religion or knowledge?is knowledge power? is knowledge something we seek? is knowledge something we strive to improve in everyday life? is knoowledge the root of evil? why do people want to know more? how does knowledge relate to religion? does knowledge begin in religion? what does your religion say about knowledge?

of some one wants to chat i'd welcome coments i urge you to voice your opinion on the subject.

i got into the conversation with a friend the other day and we stayed up for two days talking about the subject and came up empty its a very confusing topic and i want serious responses only. how do you feel what are your opinions

I would think that knowledge would have had to come before religion. For one thing, the knowledge of language would have been essential. There was no "god" until someone invented a word for it, so knowledge would have been required before religion.

I don't know that religion would have been created to control knowledge, though. It may have been usurped and utilized as a political tool and a way of controlling society, although I tend to doubt that religion was specifically created for that purpose.

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RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge - 1/8/2014 4:38:30 AM

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Based on Christianity:
All true knowledge begins with knowledge of God and when knowledge abandons God it goes awry.

As for religion, Christianity says there is only one true religion and all other religions pervert knowledge and truth to their own ends.

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RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge - 1/8/2014 5:27:06 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bubbabarrett31

which came first religion or knowledge?

Depends on how you define each. They may be one in the same.

is knowledge power? Yes.

is knowledge something we seek? It is something we SHOULD seek, but not everyone does.

is knowledge something we strive to improve in everyday life? Again, we all should.

is knoowledge the root of evil? No. Selfish desire is.

why do people want to know more? It is our nature. It is part of growing. It is part of being human.

how does knowledge relate to religion? Religion basically is a search for knowledge of higher power.

does knowledge begin in religion? No. Knowledge begins when we are born and begin noticing stimuli around us. long before we know anything about religion

what does your religion say about knowledge?

Many things. But these immediately come to mind.
People perish from lack of it. Hosea 4:6
Knowledge of good and evil was the beginning of man's struggle with sin. Genesis 3
that sin comes from the knowledge of the law Romans 3:20

of some one wants to chat i'd welcome coments i urge you to voice your opinion on the subject.

i got into the conversation with a friend the other day and we stayed up for two days talking about the subject and came up empty its a very confusing topic and i want serious responses only. how do you feel what are your opinions

(in reply to bubbabarrett31)

RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge - 1/8/2014 5:50:26 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bubbabarrett31

which came first religion or knowledge?

That's an interesting question, indeed. I was once taught (public school, 1979. I was in ninth grade) that "all religions except for Christianity, Judaism, and Hinduism were made up to try to explain the unexplainable"

My teacher's horrible attempt at not offending the religious aside, if we accept that ALL religions were made up to explain the unexplainable, this would seem to indicate that knowledge (of some things, at least) had to come first.

quote:

ORIGINAL: bubbabarrett31

is knowledge power?

APPLIED knowledge is power. Knowledge without purpose is offensive.

quote:

ORIGINAL: bubbabarrett31

is knowledge something we seek?

I think, most of us seek knowledge but I think a good portion seek specific knowledge for specific reasons. A cat burglar wants to know if I have a security system and what type it is for nefarious reasons but, I doubt they spend much time pondering these types of questions nor do I think they seek knowledge for the sake of bettering themselves as people or mankind, on the whole.

quote:

ORIGINAL: bubbabarrett31

is knowledge something we strive to improve in everyday life?

"Improve" or "collect"? I think scientists seek to "improve" knowledge. I think (as I said before) that most of us seek knowledge so we tend to collect as much as possible.

quote:

ORIGINAL: bubbabarrett31

is knoowledge the root of evil?

Certainly it can be but in-and-of-itself I don't believe it's inherently evil.

quote:

ORIGINAL: bubbabarrett31

why do people want to know more?

There are many reasons for this. The quest for knowledge is individual to all of us. Maybe I want to know why the redhead across the street keeps such odd hours. Maybe it's because I keep odd hours, also. Who knows?

quote:

ORIGINAL: bubbabarrett31

how does knowledge relate to religion?

I think knowledge helps the religious to get closer to their maker. I believe that one day, science (knowledge) will prove the existence of God.

quote:

ORIGINAL: bubbabarrett31

does knowledge begin in religion?

I don't think so, no but, I don't think that knowledge and religion are mutually exclusive.

quote:

ORIGINAL: bubbabarrett31

what does your religion say about knowledge?

I do not practice a religion.

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RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge - 1/8/2014 6:41:55 AM

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IMO.....religion is a control period. mind, body, and sprit. notice the huge amount of controls of sex of who. with, why, when, and even how it happens with the single goal of creating new converts.

Im thinking it started as a way to explain things that happened, but quickly became a way to keep others in line and under a central control & became a way to collect wealth.

its very easy to take a person of little intelligence and make them intensely religious.
....notice most of their leaders had an agenda that included rule beyond just their church.

...notice throughout history often the wealthiest people of those times were also the heads of their respective religions.

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RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge - 1/8/2014 7:32:27 AM

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The idea of the old religions was the struggle of man against nature.
Having more or less accomplished that, the new 'high' religions it became the struggle of man against his nature.

As knowledge increased it was harder to take apparent contradictions on 'faith' (who you gonna believe? me, or your lying eyes?) and so subverting knowledge is a necessary evil.

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RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge - 1/8/2014 7:53:37 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles

Based on Christianity:
All true knowledge begins with knowledge of God and when knowledge abandons God it goes awry.

As for religion, Christianity says there is only one true religion and all other religions pervert knowledge and truth to their own ends.

Depends on who you believe: Genesis or Augustine:

In Christian theology, consuming the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil was the original sin committed by Adam and Eve that subsequently became known as the Fall of man in Genesis 2-3.

In Catholicism, Augustine of Hippo taught that the tree should be understood both symbolically and as a real tree - similarly to Jerusalem being both a real city and a figure of Heavenly Jerusalem.[14] Augustine underlined that the fruits of that tree were not evil by themselves, because everything that God created was good (Gen 1:12). It was disobedience of Adam and Eve, who had been told by God not to eat of the tree (Gen 2:17), that was obnoxious and caused disorder in the creation,[15] thus humanity inherited sin and guilt from Adam and Eve's sin.[16]

WIKI

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RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge - 1/8/2014 8:04:31 AM

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Superstition is quite clearly an attempt to 'know' or understand the universe around us. From that sort of 'knowledge' comes attempts to control some parts of the universe. Rain dances, fortune telling, etc.

And those things lead logically into trying to control people based on 'special' knowledge. Shaman, oracle, priest... all wield some form of influence over their community.

Over the centuries one religious power elite supplanted another, until we have the various belief systems of today.

And all of the above rely on faith based knowledge, which is a far cry from the modern meaning of the word.

quote:

ORIGINAL: bubbabarrett31

which came first religion or knowledge?is knowledge power? is knowledge something we seek? is knowledge something we strive to improve in everyday life? is knoowledge the root of evil? why do people want to know more? how does knowledge relate to religion? does knowledge begin in religion? what does your religion say about knowledge?

of some one wants to chat i'd welcome coments i urge you to voice your opinion on the subject.

i got into the conversation with a friend the other day and we stayed up for two days talking about the subject and came up empty its a very confusing topic and i want serious responses only. how do you feel what are your opinions

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RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge - 1/8/2014 9:01:49 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

The idea of the old religions was the struggle of man against nature.
Having more or less accomplished that, the new 'high' religions it became the struggle of man against his nature.

As knowledge increased it was harder to take apparent contradictions on 'faith' (who you gonna believe? me, or your lying eyes?) and so subverting knowledge is a necessary evil.

And there was the struggle of people against the state, so the King James bible was written. To god, through the king.

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RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge - 1/8/2014 9:07:09 AM

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FR

I tend not to believe that any religion was intentionally created in order to control people. But I do believe that the will to power is just to great for religion not to have been used for that purpose.

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RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge - 1/8/2014 10:11:01 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: itsSIRtou

IMO.....religion is a control period. mind, body, and sprit. notice the huge amount of controls of sex of who. with, why, when, and even how it happens with the single goal of creating new converts.

I think an argument could be made for the fact that at the time "the huge amount of controls of sex of who. with, why, when, and even how it happens" for protecting the "flock" from STDs and providing for the care of children.

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RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge - 1/8/2014 10:29:33 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

Depends on who you believe: Genesis or Augustine:

In Christian theology, consuming the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil was the original sin committed by Adam and Eve that subsequently became known as the Fall of man in Genesis 2-3.

In Catholicism, Augustine of Hippo taught that the tree should be understood both symbolically and as a real tree - similarly to Jerusalem being both a real city and a figure of Heavenly Jerusalem.[14] Augustine underlined that the fruits of that tree were not evil by themselves, because everything that God created was good (Gen 1:12). It was disobedience of Adam and Eve, who had been told by God not to eat of the tree (Gen 2:17), that was obnoxious and caused disorder in the creation,[15] thus humanity inherited sin and guilt from Adam and Eve's sin.[16]

WIKI

Well, when I commented I was thinking of Proverbs 9:10
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding. (King James Version)

But since you brought up Genesis, I believe that the tree and the fruit were not special in of themselves. It was the choosing to take what was not theirs to take, the decision to decide for themselves what was right or wrong, good or evil and turning away from God's standards that lead to sin and death.

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RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge - 1/8/2014 12:43:32 PM

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quote:

But since you brought up Genesis, I believe that the tree and the fruit were not special in of themselves. It was the choosing to take what was not theirs to take, the decision to decide for themselves what was right or wrong, good or evil and turning away from God's standards that lead to sin and death.

Rebellion preceded knowledge then. So imperfect creatures are evidence of an imperfect god.

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RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge - 1/8/2014 12:48:35 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles

quote:

ORIGINAL: itsSIRtou

IMO.....religion is a control period. mind, body, and sprit. notice the huge amount of controls of sex of who. with, why, when, and even how it happens with the single goal of creating new converts.
I think an argument could be made for the fact that at the time "the huge amount of controls of sex of who. with, why, when, and even how it happens" for protecting the "flock" from STDs and providing for the care of children.

STDs and the germ theory of disease follow far behind religious control of sex, which in Christianity goes back to the Platonic duality of soul and corpus, the latter being decadent and shameful. So, no cigar. sorry.

Oh, and children have been abused throughout history, the latest series of events being the shocking and criminal behavior of the churchmen of Catholicism. No excuse there, please.

(in reply to Milesnmiles)

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