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RE: Have you encountered the Hesitant Dominant? - 2/1/2014 9:27:20 AM

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OsideGirl
Sounds like a good read. Skittish is likely a better word than fawn. And as you said it makes one a target. Meaning the skittish ones know all the tricks, (been there heard that line before- wheres the real Top?)

But then that becomes a cycle and keeps one alone. And alone, one learns to not need the kinky things they where after to start with because it seems impossible. I think I will find good insights in that book.

(in reply to OsideGirl)

RE: Have you encountered the Hesitant Dominant? - 2/1/2014 9:45:22 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Blonderfluff
As I am continuing my journey to finding that elusive Dominant man that will be compatible with me, I have encountered something frustrating, and wanted to see if others have as well. I am guessing you know the type. Says He's is "a Dominant". However, after emails, texts and phone calls, when you meet He seems...less than Dominant. He is almost deferential.

I might have a perspective on this you'd enjoy, because I was such a person, who grew out of it, so to speak. For me, there was a huge difference between theoretical discussions, or a hot conversation on the phone, and really controlling and hurting a woman in real life. I felt as though I had to get active consent for every "take her over" act I did, or I would be committing a mini-version of rape.

The way I resolved this for myself was to create social cues where she could remove consent in plenty of time if she had a problem, and otherwise she was along for the ride. For example, looking into her eyes and saying, "You're pretty, and I love the words coming out of your mouth. Fair warning: I'm going to kiss you pretty soon." Then of course she could say, "hell no you won't," and I wouldn't. But it's usually more something like, "Oh is that so? You think you're going to kiss me do you?" with a devilish smirk on her face. She appreciates the candor and confidence, and is titillated that I am making her wait for it.

As an aside, I've tried to explain the following thing on these boards before, and sub women seem deaf to it, but maybe you might be interested. A sub friend of mine only dated men in professor-type positions. She said that in every single case she had to initiate the first kiss, even though some of the guys were phenomenal (and dominant) in bed. She attributed it to a culture where if a man says, "You look great in that blouse," to a female colleague, his career could be stained by a sexual harassment charge. (Incidentally, I don't think that's political correctness gone mad. I think there are very good reasons for rules like that, to protect female scholars.) Point being: the academic men in her experience were far more cautious about imposing themselves on women than other guys would be. I wouldn't be surprised if there were a similar situation happening with men who work in certain kinds of civil service.

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(in reply to Blonderfluff)

RE: Have you encountered the Hesitant Dominant? - 2/1/2014 9:48:04 AM

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While I'm somewhat of a submissive, most of my relationships have found me in a dominant role. Every girlfriend I've ever had has been submissive, and I've enjoyed leading and even being dominant in bed (not to the extent of BDSM, though).

With that said, here's something paradoxical I realized years ago about this role: it's ultimately an act of service to your woman (or man - whoever). You don't take obedience, you give leadership and accept her natural response to it (which is to give herself). But true leadership is systemic and comprehensive - you care about her in every way as a human being, not just the sexual aspects. So as much as your want to fuck her brains out, it's still vitally important that you provide safety and emotional security. At least that's how it's been for me. Perhaps these guys just care enough to make sure you're okay before trying to replicate a month of fantasies within the context of your reality. Granted, I do understand there's a difference between ensuring safety and hesitating. If the former has been established and he's still dragging his heels then, yeah, maybe it's something else.

(in reply to OsideGirl)

RE: Have you encountered the Hesitant Dominant? - 2/1/2014 10:01:37 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AlphaFemsRule
Perhaps these guys just care enough to make sure you're okay before trying to replicate a month of fantasies within the context of your reality.

Agreed. I've seen threads like this one many times over the years, and a lot of the comments by single sub women seem motivated by romantic shallowness getting in the way of reality. The first date off the internet is really a date before the first date. It's the first time people meet in real life, and they are sizing up each other, and themselves. So my attitude is: you can either be like my friend and say, "This guy seems like exactly what I'm looking for except for the dominance and he says he wants to dom me, so I'll strike a match and see if he catches fire," and get some great lovers out of it. Or you can decide that caution on a first meet is more important than all the things you like about the guy.

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to AlphaFemsRule)

RE: Have you encountered the Hesitant Dominant? - 2/1/2014 10:48:07 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

quote:

ORIGINAL: AlphaFemsRule
Perhaps these guys just care enough to make sure you're okay before trying to replicate a month of fantasies within the context of your reality.

Agreed. I've seen threads like this one many times over the years, and a lot of the comments by single sub women seem motivated by romantic shallowness getting in the way of reality. The first date off the internet is really a date before the first date. It's the first time people meet in real life, and they are sizing up each other, and themselves. So my attitude is: you can either be like my friend and say, "This guy seems like exactly what I'm looking for except for the dominance and he says he wants to dom me, so I'll strike a match and see if he catches fire," and get some great lovers out of it. Or you can decide that caution on a first meet is more important than all the things you like about the guy.

You always make me think.
I believe the OP isn't talking about wanting some bodice-ripper novel behavior on the first date or two, no more than many of us who are single sub women do. I think that dominant men can choose to behave with restraint and a wait-and-see approach that isn't the same "flavor" as hesitancy, shyness, lack of confidence, what have you. We (speaking for all sub women everywhere of course) would not find a flaw in restrained dominance (is that a terrible oxymoron?).

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(in reply to RedMagic1)

RE: Have you encountered the Hesitant Dominant? - 2/1/2014 10:50:30 AM

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I think you just made a great point. It is the difference between caution and that puppy dog look that is pleading for permission.
Caution is healthy. Caution is choosing to NOT reach over the table at ALL to take my hand. That would be just fine with me. I don't want or need to jump into a "dynamic" right away.

But, by all that is sexy. If you are gonna take my hand. TAKE it. Don't weakly reach for it with so little conviction , that you will snatch your own hand back at my slightest movement. It's like they are sneaking up on me, to see if I'll let them. LET them. For me, holding my hand is a very appropriate amount of physical touch on an initial meet or first date. When they act like meek kittens about it, it is a total buzz kill.

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(in reply to RedMagic1)

RE: Have you encountered the Hesitant Dominant? - 2/1/2014 11:22:39 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Spiritedsub2

restrained dominance (is that a terrible oxymoron?).

I LOVE that!!! You might have to copyright that one.

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“I’m so fucking wet! Give it to me now!”

She could scream all she wanted…..I was keeping the umbrella.

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RE: Have you encountered the Hesitant Dominant? - 2/1/2014 12:39:15 PM

pg4g

Posts: 296
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From: Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Blonderfluff

As I am continuing my journey to finding that elusive Dominant man that will be compatible with me, I have encountered something frustrating, and wanted to see if others have as well. I am guessing you know the type. Says He's is "a Dominant". However, after emails, texts and phone calls, when you meet He seems...less than Dominant. He is almost deferential. I'm not saying I don't want Chivalry. Good manners. But there seems to be a great deal of over-hesitancy. That first touch....cautious , with a look in his eyes that is almost asking permission. WTF?? You want to hold my hand? MEAN it!! Give me a first impression of your desire to lead, own, rule. Don't ASK permission like a 'nilla metrosexual guy. If I wanted that, THEY are easy to find.

Have you found this often? For me, it is a huge turn-off. Makes me dry up to a dust bowl. :(
Any opinions on WHY this brand of Dom is so hesitantly pleading with his eyes for your acquiescence?

I've encountered this. I've been the... naturally dominant partner in a vanilla relationship for 5 years. I'm stronger, a lot more confident, and get what I want. He's always generally deferred to me.

When I finally told him one of my main interests (I'm a switch) - getting ripped apart and dominated till I'm begging the torture to end - he expressed interest. And let me say, when we finally get to that, he has no issue being an absolute dominant prick. However before then, he almost always has 100 hurdles he has to overcome of "making sure I'm ready to play" and "do you want this too?" as well as a tonne of timidity and I practically have to give in to the guy. I don't want that. He knows I'm heavily into non consent, and I've been extremely (and way too much) overly candid about telling him to rip me to pieces WITHOUT asking. He won't take what he wants, he has to be handed it. He has to be encouraged to take it. And that is the exact opposite of the confident, dominant guy I'm after.

But he is learning, and slowly. Do I think he's a dominant? Yeah - I've seen first hand how much he likes it. But there seems to be a tonne of social conditioning around it. Don't ask for what you want. Don't take it, that's wrong. Don't force someone - ask their interest. Be careful and shy to protect people in case they don't want the dominance.

Then there's the doms who aren't so dominant in real life, who compensate in their relationship, and this is where my guy fits in. Everything in his life lacks confidence. Timidity is his bread and butter. Dominance is a relief for him, but getting him to that release can be a struggle. And it challenges me to push a dom to dominate me at a time when all I want is him to fight me down against my will. Instead I have to be extremely patient with him, and... mentor him.

< Message edited by pg4g -- 2/1/2014 12:44:15 PM >

(in reply to Blonderfluff)

RE: Have you encountered the Hesitant Dominant? - 2/1/2014 1:12:26 PM

NiceButMeanGirl

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Could it be that a "hesitant Dominant" is just that way until s/he gets to know the sub and her/his limits? I mean, ideally, you've already talked about Hard Limits and such, but just how much flogging/caning/etc a person can take isn't apparent until you play with them.

I guess you could say that, at a first play session, I'm a hesitant Dominant because I'm still checking out a person's hands-on limits. I'd rather be that way than just barreling over someone's limits and them receiving more than they can handle, thus messing up an initial play date. Also, I don't want to start non-consensually touching but, once I have the permission, I will touch. However, once we get past that initial "getting to know limits" stage, I'm not hesitant.

NBMG

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RE: Have you encountered the Hesitant Dominant? - 2/1/2014 1:24:28 PM

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The hesitant dom *could* be a new dom who's finding out being a dominant person in real time is not the same as roleplaying it on the net.

I've met a few of these and frankly they creep me out. I'm just not attracted to the lack of confidence they ooze.

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RE: Have you encountered the Hesitant Dominant? - 2/1/2014 1:33:40 PM

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CP. That is EXACTLY what I'm thinking is happening. And yes. It creeps me out, too!

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RE: Have you encountered the Hesitant Dominant? - 2/1/2014 1:36:23 PM

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On the other hand, how many posts do we see from women who come back from a first meet pissed because the guy assumed that as she's submissive, she will automatically submit to him? In many ways it's a damned if you do, damned if you don't thing.

He has to take control while not coming off as an asshole, and every woman's line of confident to asshole is different. He needs to take control while also giving her an easy escape if she doesn't want it. And he probably hasn't had anyone explain how to do so.

Most guys aren't that good at mind reading. And good men don't go around dominating women who haven't agreed to submit. Consent is important.

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RE: Have you encountered the Hesitant Dominant?ua - 2/1/2014 2:22:36 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

On the other hand, how many posts do we see from women who come back from a first meet pissed because the guy assumed that as she's submissive, she will automatically submit to him? In many ways it's a damned if you do, damned if you don't thing.

He has to take control while not coming off as an asshole

Here I disagree. Dominance and confidence do not equal "asshole". I am not talking about wanting him to "Insta-Dom". I talking about being confident, in control. NOT jumping into a dynamic. Taking my hand with confidence is not me "submitting".

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Don't fear moving forward slowly...fear standing still.

I'm Blonde. Jane Blonde.

(in reply to DesFIP)

RE: Have you encountered the Hesitant Dominant? - 2/1/2014 2:24:41 PM

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I keep things vanilla for a few months, so I expect a guy to act like a dominant vanilla. When I met Master he asked if I'd like another coffee, I said yes. Next time we met we went to the cinema, he asked which film I'd like to see. He will still ask my opinion, but I know that if he disagrees then that's the end of that. He won't order my food though - I'm trying to lose weight and he knows it's foolish to come between a woman and her diet sheet!

I just remembered this one guy...dear lord! We met for coffee and he seemed nice. A bit hesitant, but nice. We went for a drink that weekend and he sat opposite me in the bar, giving me big smiles and serious puppy dog eyes...and giving me little waves, all cutesy-wutesy

I told him to cut it out, and he started to sing to me as we left the bar. I shit you not...he sang that David Cassidy classic "I think I love you" except he sang "I think I wuv you"!

I nearly barfed on my stilettos

Needless to say, that was our last date

Edited to add: apologies for the emoticon overdose...I might have overdone the caffeine today!

< Message edited by myotherself -- 2/1/2014 2:33:58 PM >

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RE: Have you encountered the Hesitant Dominant? - 2/1/2014 2:36:59 PM

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Oh, bunny. You are KILLING me!! Bahahaha.

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RE: Have you encountered the Hesitant Dominant? - 2/1/2014 3:42:30 PM

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BlonderFluff I totally get it. I respond to submissive energy that resonates with me, not all /s's do, but most will. All the permission I need is in that submissive energy feeding my Dominant energy. I suspect it would be like a pheromone thing, but on an energetic level, with some pheromones tossed in for good measure.

I understand where you are in your frustration. After cmail, email, text, talk, we should be on the same page with wants, needs, likes, dislikes, and were ready to meet and check that spark. If at some point I failed to mention how intensely I respond to submissive energy, shoot me. I'm very primal, and it behooves me to give forewarning. Your submissive energy could trigger my primal Dominant desires and then I will, most assuredly, take the lead. I will lead, most likely aggressively, and all you need to do is follow. Your receptiveness is my green light, your sleight hesitation is my yellow light. I can and will be aggressively primal and dominant, although I won't throw you over the dinning table and fuck you right there (I may entertain the thought), I am primal, I like touch, I like my senses stimulated, and will, for as long as the green light stays on, slick that thirst on you.

I know you don't want this, "please servile submissive ma'am, can I touch your hand?"

Or, "bitch, I'm taking it, like it or not!"

Maybe something more like this, "Mmmm... Mine."

YMMV
Exiled

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(in reply to Blonderfluff)

RE: Have you encountered the Hesitant Dominant? - 2/1/2014 3:52:02 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant

BlonderFluff I totally get it. I respond to submissive energy that resonates with me, not all /s's do, but most will. All the permission I need is in that submissive energy feeding my Dominant energy. I suspect it would be like a pheromone thing, but on an energetic level, with some pheromones tossed in for good measure.

I understand where you are in your frustration. After cmail, email, text, talk, we should be on the same page with wants, needs, likes, dislikes, and were ready to meet and check that spark. If at some point I failed to mention how intensely I respond to submissive energy, shoot me. I'm very primal, and it behooves me to give forewarning. Your submissive energy could trigger my primal Dominant desires and then I will, most assuredly, take the lead. I will lead, most likely aggressively, and all you need to do is follow. Your receptiveness is my green light, your sleight hesitation is my yellow light. I can and will be aggressively primal and dominant, although I won't throw you over the dinning table and fuck you right there (I may entertain the thought), I am primal, I like touch, I like my senses stimulated, and will, for as long as the green light stays on, slick that thirst on you.

I know you don't want this, "please servile submissive ma'am, can I touch your hand?"

Or, "bitch, I'm taking it, like it or not!"

Maybe something more like this, "Mmmm... Mine."

YMMV
Exiled

~yes please~

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Don't fear moving forward slowly...fear standing still.

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RE: Have you encountered the Hesitant Dominant? - 2/1/2014 4:34:20 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

On the other hand, how many posts do we see from women who come back from a first meet pissed because the guy assumed that as she's submissive, she will automatically submit to him? In many ways it's a damned if you do, damned if you don't thing.

He has to take control while not coming off as an asshole, and every woman's line of confident to asshole is different. He needs to take control while also giving her an easy escape if she doesn't want it. And he probably hasn't had anyone explain how to do so.

Most guys aren't that good at mind reading. And good men don't go around dominating women who haven't agreed to submit. Consent is important.

That's pretty much what I've been saying too.

_____________________________

“Give it to me!” she yelled
“I’m so fucking wet! Give it to me now!”

She could scream all she wanted…..I was keeping the umbrella.

(in reply to DesFIP)

RE: Have you encountered the Hesitant Dominant? - 2/1/2014 5:33:23 PM

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Sorry Blonderfluff, but I still disagree. You want him to be in control but you don't want him to assume he has the right to control you until after you get into a dynamic. So what you're really saying, is that if you think he's hot, then he should take control. But if you don't, then you don't want him to.

Did you like him as a person? Could you be friends? Then accept that it probably isn't going to be perfect on the first meet. But if you like him, you find him easy to talk to, then go on a second date. Lunch and a walk in the park, or museum at this time of year. The first date stuff is so awkward it almost never can be trusted to tell you what you think and feel about him.

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RE: Have you encountered the Hesitant Dominant? - 2/1/2014 6:14:00 PM

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She will be the first that says someone has crossed the line, because they couldn't mind read.

(in reply to DesFIP)

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