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RE: Have you encountered the Hesitant Dominant? - 2/11/2014 9:39:34 PM   
Spiritedsub2


Posts: 3315
Joined: 7/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RareByrd

quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1

No amount of pre-first meeting dialogue or excruciating detail provided by a guy met online and then the phone could ever change my stance that you are not my dominant until I say you are.

Chemistry for me is not real until we spend time with each other.

I feel it smacks of desperation and trying to prove how submissive or Dominant you are to give or obey orders without having met at least once.


YES. Reading that account of MarcEsadrian's set off warning bells in my head. I would NEVER (to the billionth power) ever EVAR agree to anything like that.


Hmmm. Reading his account set off bells for me of a different sort

_____________________________

Don’t grieve. Anything you lose comes round in another form.
~ Rumi

Laughing Dolphin

(in reply to RareByrd)
Profile   Post #: 141
RE: Have you encountered the Hesitant Dominant? - 2/11/2014 11:12:18 PM   
MarcEsadrian


Posts: 852
Joined: 8/24/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1

I feel it smacks of desperation and trying to prove how submissive or Dominant you are to give or obey orders without having met at least once.

Doesn't mean when I am in their presence they will move me in the slightest.


I feel that attitude smacks a bit of thought-terminating ignorance, red, and discounts the myriad connections made between minds via long-distance in a host of different styles of relationships. Moving people begins with communication and exchange. That rule doesn't stop simply because you've met someone in the flesh: all it does is open up the bandwidth to physical gestures and inferences (body language), in addition to verbal communication. But the key destination is the mind and the expressed organization and compatibility of one's thoughts to another, no matter what environment you find yourself in. If you tap into the mind deep enough through open, honest, and earnest exchange, anything is possible between two minds.

If you have security reasons that leave you wanting to verify someone in the flesh first before the dialog truly begins, I can understand that, but I think your projecting "desperation" rather than intrigue, sincerity, or passion onto the practice of long-distance exchange and its potentiality for real-world interaction is a bit much...especially in 2014.

_____________________________

Omnes una manet nox

Founder, Humbled Females

(in reply to sexyred1)
Profile   Post #: 142
RE: Have you encountered the Hesitant Dominant? - 2/12/2014 4:11:49 AM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RareByrd
YES. Reading that account of MarcEsadrian's set off warning bells in my head. I would NEVER (to the billionth power) ever EVAR agree to anything like that.

MarcEsadrian has an advantage most kinky men do not. He is, by far, the most famous person who posts to these boards on a regular basis. You're probably thinking, "WTF, I've never heard of him." Well, in the first place, being internet-kink-famous isn't the same as being famous for real. But in the second place, when he was exposing his journeys through kink and D/s to the world, he was known by a different name. So you may have read about his former life without realizing it.

This creates an advantage much like bringing a thick portfolio of work to a job interview: even if someone doesn't know you, there's a ton of evidence that you're serious. He could send any prospective slave links that reveal parts of his past. I've used something similar as a tool, myself. I have enough of a (vanilla) web presence that a Google search on my name yields me as one of the top hits. Almost all of my first dates off the internet have either ended in a friends-only handshake, or in sex and playtime. I have seldom had to wait to a second date to see the lady naked, and that is due, in part, to the fact that she has objective evidence that I am not lying about myself.

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to RareByrd)
Profile   Post #: 143
RE: Have you encountered the Hesitant Dominant? - 2/12/2014 4:37:19 AM   
ChatteParfaitt


Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline 		This:


quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

I just think most men online are just socially inept and that's why they spend so much time online and when they finally get a girl to meet them, they have zero idea how to react. They hide behind the computer screen to make up for their ineptness. Unfortunately in this day and age where we never have to leave our homes for anything, it's becoming more and more and more common.



Not surprisingly, those people who find their way to the message boards tend to be far more verbal than the average bear, making them better than average communicators, and (in my never humble opinion) giving them a better than average chance to find someone compatible.




_____________________________



(in reply to littlewonder)
Profile   Post #: 144
RE: Have you encountered the Hesitant Dominant? - 2/12/2014 7:11:29 AM   
Greta75


Posts: 9968
Joined: 2/6/2011
Status: offline 		In the way MarcEsadrian did his first meeting

I got to say, that's how I met my x-dom. Literally within 48 hours of talking to him, I agreed to go to his home, and strip at door and kneel to him naked and let him have his way with me. We discussed safe words in advance. Hell, we didn't even discuss what he was going to do. And it was the most amazing night of my life, he did everything perfect, and soon after, we moved in together and were doing it 24/7 for 2 years.
And the thing is, I don't know why I did it, except, something felt 100% right. Me and him clicked instantaneously when we first chatted on YM. I just knew he could be trusted. I just knew he was the one. It's like when you meet someone who feels like your soulmate instantly, everything just make sense, there is no uncertainty.

But is this normal for me? No it's not, usually, I gotta do the vanilla meeting first, and even sometimes, it can take like freaking months or years of talking online, before I even want to meet the guy.

And many times I don't even want to meet at all. It just didn't feel right. I've never done this with anybody else ever, that was the one off, as for me, it's all about the intangible feelings that I feel. So what that girl did with MarcEsadrian, I am guessing, she has gotta feel safe enough to agree to that, if they had lengthy emails to establish some kind of strong enough trust with each other. And the connection was right.

(in reply to ChatteParfaitt)
Profile   Post #: 145
RE: Have you encountered the Hesitant Dominant? - 2/12/2014 7:30:00 AM   
GoddessManko


Posts: 2257
Joined: 3/6/2013
From: Dante's Inferno
Status: offline 		I honestly sometimes place unrealistic expectations on my subs for our first meeting and I expect them to comply. MarcEsadrian's experience is actually not uncommon for myself. I may have them travel several miles simply for a chat and to kiss the underside of my boot for our first meeting or across the country just to have dinner with me. Sometimes they may never see my face until we meet for the first time, they just "have to trust me", LOL. Scary thought, right? Because you may never know what a person's motives may be, it is ballsy to take such a plunge.
It is a way to prove you are serious about this, absolutely and just how far you're willing to go.
My current sub's focus is my happiness more than anything so I'm going to keep him.
His very eager and willful submission is extremely unselfish and comes from a really good place and I like him VERY much thus far. :)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

In the way MarcEsadrian did his first meeting

I got to say, that's how I met my x-dom. Literally within 48 hours of talking to him, I agreed to go to his home, and strip at door and kneel to him naked and let him have his way with me. We discussed safe words in advance. Hell, we didn't even discuss what he was going to do. And it was the most amazing night of my life, he did everything perfect, and soon after, we moved in together and were doing it 24/7 for 2 years.
And the thing is, I don't know why I did it, except, something felt 100% right. Me and him clicked instantaneously when we first chatted on YM. I just knew he could be trusted. I just knew he was the one. It's like when you meet someone who feels like your soulmate instantly, everything just make sense, there is no uncertainty.

But is this normal for me? No it's not, usually, I gotta do the vanilla meeting first, and even sometimes, it can take like freaking months or years of talking online, before I even want to meet the guy.

And many times I don't even want to meet at all. It just didn't feel right. I've never done this with anybody else ever, that was the one off, as for me, it's all about the intangible feelings that I feel. So what that girl did with MarcEsadrian, I am guessing, she has gotta feel safe enough to agree to that, if they had lengthy emails to establish some kind of strong enough trust with each other. And the connection was right.



_____________________________

Happy consent is the name of the game. You are my perfect Mistress. - my collared.

http://submissivemale.blogspot.com/

The Bird of Hermes is my name, eating my wings to make me tame.

(in reply to Greta75)
Profile   Post #: 146
RE: Have you encountered the Hesitant Dominant? - 2/12/2014 10:39:10 AM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MarcEsadrian


quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1

I feel it smacks of desperation and trying to prove how submissive or Dominant you are to give or obey orders without having met at least once.

Doesn't mean when I am in their presence they will move me in the slightest.


I feel that attitude smacks a bit of thought-terminating ignorance, red, and discounts the myriad connections made between minds via long-distance in a host of different styles of relationships. Moving people begins with communication and exchange. That rule doesn't stop simply because you've met someone in the flesh: all it does is open up the bandwidth to physical gestures and inferences (body language), in addition to verbal communication. But the key destination is the mind and the expressed organization and compatibility of one's thoughts to another, no matter what environment you find yourself in. If you tap into the mind deep enough through open, honest, and earnest exchange, anything is possible between two minds.

If you have security reasons that leave you wanting to verify someone in the flesh first before the dialog truly begins, I can understand that, but I think your projecting "desperation" rather than intrigue, sincerity, or passion onto the practice of long-distance exchange and its potentiality for real-world interaction is a bit much...especially in 2014.


Marc, I don't see how any opinion I have has anything to so with the year 2014. It has to do with my own experiences.

I am sure there have been men and women online who have created passionate connections that exist in their minds. When I first started out online, I got overly engaged with men, spoke for a few weeks, fell for the verbal glamour of it all, got hot and bothered and then met these men.

Guess what? I was not physically attracted to any of them, nor did I feel that Dominant tug in person. They felt chemistry for me, which made it worse as they were angry that I did not feel the same.

I am very verbal and well versed in seduction and psychology, so I know how people can get caught up in fantasies and high expectations.

I don't doubt that you may have had earth shattering instant chemistry that resulted in a sub dropping to her knees upon first meeting, but I tend to believe my own experiences where that scenario only happened to me once I meet in person and never immediately.

Again, for me, I am in no rush at all to jump into things.

(in reply to MarcEsadrian)
Profile   Post #: 147
RE: Have you encountered the Hesitant Dominant? - 2/12/2014 11:48:44 AM   
MarcEsadrian


Posts: 852
Joined: 8/24/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1
I am sure there have been men and women online who have created passionate connections that exist in their minds. When I first started out online, I got overly engaged with men, spoke for a few weeks, fell for the verbal glamour of it all, got hot and bothered and then met these men. Guess what? I was not physically attracted to any of them, nor did I feel that Dominant tug in person.


I'd suggest, then, that there's a very high probability you and I are talking about two different ways of approaching this, even though it appears we're talking about the same idea. As you said, your opinion is based upon your own experiences. I can't see what went on before in your past experiences, but each and every woman I've met as a result of first meeting long distance has been perfectly fine by me, and I by them (and that's a rather wide understatement). This is due to the open and honest depth and style of our exchanges, which goes far beyond seduction and getting caught up in mere fantasy, mind you.

Greta touched upon something, too, and that is a certain je ne sais quoi that can only be explained as psychological chemistry, proving, again, that one does not necessarily need flesh and pheromone to dig someone.

RedMagic calls me a bit of a celebrity. That gave me a chuckle, but he is correct that I have plenty of evidence of involvement in this way of life—on both sides of the slash. The "portfolio" certainly is a factor here, but it's not something beyond reach of a dominant male or female, to produce a history of exchange and involvement with the way of life and its community, as it were.

The reference to 2014 is simple: we are all living in the age of media-rich remote digital communication, and meeting online>>talking>>dating>>mating has become quite the norm now. Being enthusiastic about someone you met online and building up a sure chemistry with them before even meeting is not a sign of desperation, weakness, depravity, or stupidity. As with most things in life, it all depends upon how it's done and to what lengths two personalities explore themselves with all due diligence and extent.

_____________________________

Omnes una manet nox

Founder, Humbled Females

(in reply to sexyred1)
Profile   Post #: 148
RE: Have you encountered the Hesitant Dominant? - 2/12/2014 12:30:14 PM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline 		You aren't a celebrity if nobody knows who you are.

Beyond that, internet "fame" is worth, ah, not much. "Babe, I'm a big deal on the internet." That's an eyeroll-inducing seduction line if there ever was one. Though I seem to recall MarcEsadrian developed a stalkeristic cult following, so maybe he received all the downsides of celebrity without any of the perks. Yay!

So my point was more that it helps to have something external that can verify that what you're typing in chat, or saying on Skype, is, in fact, true. It's the equivalent of "having references" in the internet age. If there are web pages that can vouch for someone, that is in a way worth more than having individuals who can vouch for someone.

There used to be a regular poster here who included the Wikipedia article on her in her sig line. That's a dramatic example of what I'm talking about, but I think a lot of people could use the technique. Were you in a newspaper article because you saved a cat from being trapped in a tree, or anything silly like that? Send a link to your prospective date at some point and say, "Here's something I'm proud of." It suddenly makes so much more of your conversation feel legitimate.

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to MarcEsadrian)
Profile   Post #: 149
RE: Have you encountered the Hesitant Dominant? - 2/12/2014 1:02:05 PM   
Spiritedsub2


Posts: 3315
Joined: 7/18/2012
Status: offline 		On the flipside of that, be careful about moving to texting offsite. I learned the hard way (I was clueless) that people can Google our phone numbers and identify us.

edit: by the way, I'm not famous.

_____________________________

Don’t grieve. Anything you lose comes round in another form.
~ Rumi

Laughing Dolphin

(in reply to RedMagic1)
Profile   Post #: 150
RE: Have you encountered the Hesitant Dominant? - 2/12/2014 2:34:21 PM   
MarcEsadrian


Posts: 852
Joined: 8/24/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1
"Babe, I'm a big deal on the internet."


I'll try saying that in my best Ron Burgundy voice next time.


@Spiritedsub2

Good point about the phone numbers.

_____________________________

Omnes una manet nox

Founder, Humbled Females

(in reply to RedMagic1)
Profile   Post #: 151
RE: Have you encountered the Hesitant Dominant? - 2/12/2014 6:15:57 PM   
StrongSpirit


Posts: 575
Joined: 4/10/2005
Status: offline 		I read a lot of whining and insulting of experienced dominants. The fact that we move slowly does not mean we are in-experienced nor does it mean we are fakers. Instead we are cautious people that have learned the hardway that only an a-hole assumes he knows what you want on a first date - or even a second one.

Any dominant that expects all submissive to immediately submit to them is not a person I want to hang out with. You have to earn submission.

Similarly, any submissive that expects all dominants to immediately dominant them is ALSO not a person I want to hang out with. You have to EARN the right to be dominated by me. I don't put out on the first date. You don't like it, TOUGH.

When I was looking for a sub, I would be polite and respectful and do all the other things you subs are complaining about. Why? Because part of being dominant is being in charge of your self as well as being in charge of your own desires, not letting them run wild.

Part of the issue is quite frankly submissives all want to much. They want a telepathic mind reader dominant. Someone that will always know exactly what the sub's limits are, always push right up to them and never step over them. Sorry, but I must have missed that class at Hogwarts.

Not all people claiming to be subs have the same limits as you. Moreover, some of the people claiming to be subs have serious issues - just like your average non=-kinky person. You order their food for them and they flashback on their ex and start screaming at you.

Some people think pain is a pre-req for bdsm, others don't want any part of it. Some perfectly reasonable people think they are 'subs' when they are really masochistic dominants. Some people think they are masochists, but are really just submissive that hate pain. You can't go by a short email exchange, you have to get to know the person.

Dating is hard. Dating Kinky is HARDER than dating vanilla. The issues you are talking about are nothing more than the standard issues men and women have on a first date, just enhanced by the kinky possibilities. They are not signs of inexperience, nor are they signs of non-dominant men.

(in reply to OsideGirl)
Profile   Post #: 152
RE: Have you encountered the Hesitant Dominant? - 2/12/2014 7:59:32 PM   
Toysinbabeland


Posts: 1693
Joined: 3/4/2012
From: the other end of Cx's leash
Status: offline 		It may be the thrill of the chase.
Some beasts chase until they've pounced.
When the meat doesn't resist anymore, it's no fun.

(in reply to OsideGirl)
Profile   Post #: 153
RE: Have you encountered the Hesitant Dominant? - 2/13/2014 9:16:21 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1
quote:

ORIGINAL: AlphaFemsRule
Perhaps these guys just care enough to make sure you're okay before trying to replicate a month of fantasies within the context of your reality.

Agreed. I've seen threads like this one many times over the years, and a lot of the comments by single sub women seem motivated by romantic shallowness getting in the way of reality.

Well, that may be a bit broad given that everyone's "reality" is different... but it sure as hell would get in the way of MY reality. My immediate gut reaction to OP's post was, "Thank god I'm not a BDSM dominant so I don't need to measure up to some arbitrary woman's fantasy." My own history shows that I form deep and long-lasting relationships. So I'd be risking everything I value for a quick bit of faux dominance. No thanks.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to RedMagic1)
Profile   Post #: 154
RE: Have you encountered the Hesitant Dominant? - 2/13/2014 11:18:33 AM   
ExiledTyrant


Posts: 4547
Joined: 12/9/2013
From: Exiled
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

My own history shows that I form deep and long-lasting relationships.


Thanks for clarifying that. I suppose you went the extra mile ensuring that you communicated well, all the chemistry was there, and that your connection with her was one that could endure time. Because a bad breakup, or heaven forbids, a divorce would destroy the validity of your post.

Jus sayin
Exiled

_____________________________

Gnothi Seauton
To lead, first follow: Aurelius, Epictetus, Descartes, Sun Tzu, to name a few.

Semper fidelis (which sometimes feels like a burden)

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 155
RE: Have you encountered the Hesitant Dominant? - 2/13/2014 12:37:25 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MarcEsadrian

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1
"Babe, I'm a big deal on the internet."


I'll try saying that in my best Ron Burgundy voice next time.


@Spiritedsub2

Good point about the phone numbers.



This reminds me of the big ass mug I bought Master a couple of years ago that says, "I'm a big fucking deal!"

_____________________________

Nothing has changed
Everything has changed

(in reply to MarcEsadrian)
Profile   Post #: 156
RE: Have you encountered the Hesitant Dominant? - 2/13/2014 1:04:08 PM   
MercTech


Posts: 3706
Joined: 7/4/2006
Status: offline 		After decades of being told to stifle any dominant inclinations by society, custom, and relatives it takes a pattern of trust to let the side out that leaves bruises, bite marks, and keeps floggers in the ottoman.

After decades of "sexual harassment training" opening up to a person on true wants and desires at a first meeting is not extremely likely. The legal ramifications of being sexually aggressive are a bit intimidating.

And there is such a thing as negotiations and finding if desires are compatible.

Yeah, I'm a hesitant dom.

(in reply to littlewonder)
Profile   Post #: 157
RE: Have you encountered the Hesitant Dominant? - 2/13/2014 1:08:17 PM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant
Thanks for clarifying that. I suppose you went the extra mile ensuring that you communicated well, all the chemistry was there, and that your connection with her was one that could endure time. Because a bad breakup, or heaven forbids, a divorce would destroy the validity of your post.

I'll let you count score how you choose. In the words of my wife, "I've married every woman I've ever dated". The first two of those marriages did not work out -- both ending between 5 and 7 years. 3rd time is the charm as they say here at the 17 year mark for marriage and near 20 year mark for the relationship. My point is that I have no interest in a quick fling. My hoped timeline is always "forever after". The pacing I choose is more appropriate to decades rather than months. Obviously, twice my reality did not align with my plans but that doesn't change the underlying viewpoint.

Probably the bigger difference though is contained in the statement "I'm not a BDSM dominant". In the OP's eyes I'd be 'nilla and she'd be right in that characterization. In my eyes she'd be playing BDSM games with D/s and I'd be right in that. Implicit in the OP's characterization is that of weakness but in reality all we're talking about is incompatibility.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to ExiledTyrant)
Profile   Post #: 158
RE: Have you encountered the Hesitant Dominant? - 2/13/2014 1:59:35 PM   
ExiledTyrant


Posts: 4547
Joined: 12/9/2013
From: Exiled
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

I'll let you count score how you choose. In the words of my wife, "I've married every woman I've ever dated". The first two of those marriages did not work out -- both ending between 5 and 7 years. 3rd time is the charm as they say here at the 17 year mark for marriage and near 20 year mark for the relationship.


^ oops... Who coulda known?

quote:


My point is that I have no interest in a quick fling


Hmmm... I never figured you for one to regurgitate presumptuous puke. Is this your orientation, or are you taking the "Dom for the night" ball and running with it?

quote:


My hoped timeline is always "forever after".


Two minutes of due diligence would've shown you that the OP has the same intent... Unless we're back at the regurgitation stage.

quote:


The pacing I choose is more appropriate to decades rather than months. Obviously, twice my reality did not align with my plans but that doesn't change the underlying viewpoint.



But it does change the validity of your previous post. You can't stand on the high road and judge when you made two errors that she, in the very nature of the OP, is trying to avoid.

quote:



Probably the bigger difference though is contained in the statement "I'm not a BDSM dominant". In the OP's eyes I'd be 'nilla and she'd be right in that characterization. In my eyes she'd be playing BDSM games with D/s and I'd be right in that. Implicit in the OP's characterization is that of weakness but in reality all we're talking about is incompatibility.


Clearly you haven't read the OP. I'd hate to have to paraphrase, but clearly the idea that there is a tangible energetic pull in some Dominants that resonates with submissives, piss off those who do not posses such magnetism.

So the tone of this thread degenerated into "the have not's" all butt hurt and screaming she should settle cuz woo woo isn't real, and the "haves" just not giving a shit. The "haves" don't give a shit because they "have" and nothing about the thread threatens their ego. So there it is, in a nut shell, gorilla D's thumping there chests because a submissive knows what she wants, and it is clearly not them.

Jus sayin
Exiled

_____________________________

Gnothi Seauton
To lead, first follow: Aurelius, Epictetus, Descartes, Sun Tzu, to name a few.

Semper fidelis (which sometimes feels like a burden)

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 159
RE: Have you encountered the Hesitant Dominant? - 2/13/2014 3:33:47 PM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant
Clearly you haven't read the OP. I'd hate to have to paraphrase, but clearly the idea that there is a tangible energetic pull in some Dominants that resonates with submissives, piss off those who do not posses such magnetism.

So the tone of this thread degenerated into "the have not's" all butt hurt and screaming she should settle cuz woo woo isn't real, and the "haves" just not giving a shit. The "haves" don't give a shit because they "have" and nothing about the thread threatens their ego. So there it is, in a nut shell, gorilla D's thumping there chests because a submissive knows what she wants, and it is clearly not them.

Am I missing something here because you and I seem to be in some sort of violent agreement. I commented on the side of the thread that resonated with me but acknowledged readily that we were simply talking about incompatibilities. Is there some part of that you find unreasonable or untrue?

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to ExiledTyrant)
Profile   Post #: 160
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