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RE: How often does a Master usually put his slave into ... - 2/24/2014 4:31:59 PM

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He isn't listening to you, he doesn't show concern for your health and well being, he thinks he's some fantasy overlord out of a 3rd rate SciFi book...

I think you really must love him to still be with him, or you could be addicted to emotional masochism and therefore picked somebody who simply doesn't understand you.

If you're happy with it, I'd say I won't agree but your mental and physical health, really not my business, but if you'd be happy, you wouldn't be asking the question. Time to remind him that slave contracts on earth are different from the ones on Gor and you can actually up and leave, should he continue to behave like a spoiled brat with a hearing problem.

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RE: How often does a Master usually put his slave into ... - 2/24/2014 7:52:31 PM

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To answer you're direct question, Carol and I do not do rituals and pageantry. I sometimes position her body but it isn't in the highly stylized way you're talking about... it's just a pragmatic thing where I want her to be in some position so I manhandle her about. It would've never occurred to me to name those positions or care about anything other than whether her body is mine or hers. I'm too pragmatic to be interested in the pageantry of Gor.

For the rest of your sadness I don't know what to say. He is your master (in the sense that Norman wrote about it and you two apparently want). He wants mornings spent a certain way. What can it possibly matter what YOU want? Your two choices are obey or divorce. Pick one. Alternately, and my recommendation by far, would be to consider whether such an incredibly static relationship structure is really what you TWO want. You're not getting your needs met and he punishes you when you bring that up. How do you think that's going to play out over the next few years?

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RE: How often does a Master usually put his slave into ... - 2/25/2014 7:07:18 AM

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I'll answer you as an ex-Gorean slave girl, on the rituals my former Master practiced with me.

quote:

ORIGINAL: leashedlaura

How often do you put your slave in a slave position?

Rarely

quote:

ORIGINAL: leashedlaura
And is it done for any other reasons other than training and for "Master's amusement".

Yes, in fact, it was done almost exclusively for training purposes, and not for his amusement.

quote:

ORIGINAL: leashedlaura

Does slave positions excite you every time, why? if you watched your slave take up positions each morning naked in the kitchen, How long before your excitement wanes away? Would you put your slave into position just out of habit that You have subconsciously developed?

Not relevant to my former Master, but I will say that IF a man gets sexually excited by an act it's very unlikely that it will stop for him at some point. Sexual triggers tend to be what they are, and just like most vanilla men will not become desensitized to seeing -insert their favorite fetishized female body part- I don't believe your Master will become desensitized to, or bored of, the sexual pleasure of putting you through the positions.
The only exception to this seems to be if a man is completely emerged in a sexual stimulant in a (for him) non-sexual context for prolonged periods of time (camera men working in the porn industry come to mind for instance) but that's not going to happen with your Master with something as short and structured as a morning ritual.

quote:

ORIGINAL: leashedlaura

This slave understands that it's none of her business as a slave to try to change her Master's position training frequency or his reasons. But this slave is very tired of the routine every morning, It's been going on for years now.

You're right, it is none of your business. In fact, you know it's none of your business. You knew it was none of your business when you asked about changing it the first time. On top of that, your Master, through punishment, has made it very clear more than once that it is none of your business.

And yet... you press on...

I want you to think about that, and consider it deeply; because what's happened is that you're in a situation where you know that what you're doing isn't in line with your slavery. You know that what you're doing isn't compatible with the role and statue you've chosen in life. You know that what you're doing is linearly opposed to your role as a slave.

I'm not saying this to shame you, in fact, I don't believe that you're doing anything at all wrong, but I'm trying to very forcefully point out that what you are doing is choosing not to be a slave as you've defined the concept of what a slave is.

You're doing this in more ways than one, considering that this statement:

quote:

ORIGINAL: leashedlaura

she wishes that the mornings could be used for some romantic talks, discussion, just talking, watching the news, kindling romance etc..

Is not slave-as-you've-defined-the-concept behavior either.
It's wife-like and/or FC-like behavior that you're clearly seeking.

I would say that you're currently at a point where you've got a very important decision to make: you have to either again choose the life and slavery you've chosen before, and have to again accept that this means that you'll be subjected to commands that you don't care for. You know very well that in the type of slavery you're in, that's just the way it is, and it's the way it ought to be.
Your Master will not alter his position on this topic, nor -if you wish to remain a chattel slave- should he have to.

On the other hand, you've clearly come to a point where you want different things in life than you did when you chose this life. The old routines no longer turn you on, and now that you're faced with the drudgery of actual slavery, it's suddenly not as much fun anymore. I want to stress that there is nothing wrong with that in theory, as long as you're honest about this to yourself and your Master and recognize that your current feelings are completely incompatible with your position of chattel slavery.

You cannot both have the compassion and consideration due to a wife and at the same be the type of chattel slave which has no business bringing up grievances.

If you wish to remain the type of slave who has no business bringing up grievances, you need to drop this. You need to stop complaining, stop even wishing for change, fall in line, and obey. Beg your Master for firmer direction and punishment if you're finding yourself having a hard time putting his pleasure once again before your own. Beg him to guide you into being less self-absorbed and less concerned for your own happiness and welfare. Beg him to be ruthless with your current mental insubordination of daring to desire him to change. Show him this thread, beg for forgiveness for complaining about him in such a public venue, and beg to be punished for such a brazenly displeasing act.

If on the other hand, you've decides that you do not wish to comply with your Master's desire to do this morning ritual, and you're adement you want change, no matter the cost, you're going to have to realize that this desire is incompatible with you remaining a mere chattel slave, because what you're doing is posing that you're will, your desires, and your pleasures, are -at least in certain circumstances- more important than you're Master's. You're also going to have to realize that while it's human for you to feel this way, and normal for you to hit a point where you insist on begin considered, it is not in line with Gorean chattel slavery. You cannot have both.

Jeff is right that you either need to choose to remain a slave, divorce, or mutually decide you both want a different relationship together. The one thing you cannot do is keep your current relationship as is, while changing this one small aspect of it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: leashedlaura

she is not allowed to pee in the morning until Master's whistle

I want to echo everybody else who has already mentioned that being forced to hold your pee for the time periods you're describing (30+ min) can have serious negative health consequences, some of which long term (think incontinence as you get older for instance) especially if you're also limiting your fluid intake at night to prevent morning discomfort.

< Message edited by UllrsIshtar -- 2/25/2014 7:21:28 AM >

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RE: How often does a Master usually put his slave into ... - 2/25/2014 8:25:26 AM

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Because of the gor aspect, I didn't comment on what I see as abusive, immature behavior. Sorry, but it seems to go part and parcel with the fantasy land ideals of gor.

Here's the crux of the issue as I see it. Her life/relationship views have changed. Something from a psychological standpoint were bound to happen. Human nature requires love, whether people want to admit it or not. The concept of gor as described above will never be sustainable by most humans (as in female humans).

Her needs have changed. Yes, NEEDS nott desires. She now needs something different from her marriage. She is trying to approach it in an adult manner by trying to open a dialogue with her fantasy driven husband. His response is to remain in fantasy land (I love LC's description: fantasy overlor of a 3rd rate sci-fi novel).

His morning ritual regarding refusing to allow her to urinate for a long period of time shows he is out of touch, or simply doesn't care about the reality of how that can cause health issues. This is fantasy porn nonsense. Beyond the people here who recognize the health issues, any google search that excludes porn fantasy would prove us right.

Is her only choice accept or divorce? Maybe, but not necessarily. I would hope that because they are married, he chose that path for more than thee tax advantages that shacking up would give him. So as someone else mentioned (Athena?) She needs to let him know that divorce is on the table as an option. I have no idea how long they've been married or playing this gor game, so I don't know how ingrained this may be in her. Hopefully not so much she feels no option

To the OP: Like several others said before me, you need to tell "masterhusband" that the two of you need to have a serious discussion, where all pretense of roles other than husband and wife are gone. Let him know that if he refuses to do this, that you withdraw all consent to M/s and anything, ANYTHING he does from that point forward will be legally unconsented to abuse and he will face criminal charges for it. Mean it when you say it, and follow through if he does anything.

Hopefully, that will be enough for him to see you are serious, although I have my doubts. Then tell him that your needs have changed and if the two of you are to remain together, renegotiation needs to happen, and tell him how.

Here's the most important thing. If he refuses, if he raises a hand to you after you remove consent, you MUST call the police and report the abuse. They WILL remove him from the home. This will keep you from having to leve and will prevent him from claiming you abandoned him. Because you are legally married, he can't just toss you out if you decide not to continue on this previously chosen path. It gives you equal rights to that house under the law. But you must tap into all yourr inner strength to do it.

I wish you luck.

(in reply to UllrsIshtar)

RE: How often does a Master usually put his slave into ... - 2/25/2014 9:41:55 AM

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Rituals are very important to some people, so it may not be an entirely visual thing for him.
It could be that the ritual of it turns him on.

You are wishing for something different:

quote:

But she wishes that the mornings could be used for some romantic talks, discussion, just talking, watching the news, kindling romance etc..

I am wondering if your master would be willing to develop an evening ritual with you that could incoporate some of those things that you desire?

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(in reply to leashedlaura)

RE: How often does a Master usually put his slave into ... - 2/25/2014 12:22:35 PM

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I would certainly be willing to do the morning ritual (except for the not peeing part) if I were getting my needs met later in the day (or later in the week.)

I had a long distance M/s relationship that had a lot of sexual components, but when we moved in together, pretty soon there was no more sex, only service. I had no interest in being his wife, but without the sexual component fueling my desire to serve, I lost interest.

(in reply to angelikaJ)

RE: How often does a Master usually put his slave into ... - 2/25/2014 3:03:22 PM

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The problem is that he seems to caught up in his fantasy world to discuss the issue. I think if they could discuss it, there could possibly be some sort of compromise. Whether later in the day, or even after running through the position ritual, having a cup of coffee together and talking.

However, she gives the impression that she has to urinate outside the house every morning, so I don't believe this husband is ever going to entertain any kind of compromise that involves them talking as husband and wife without him having the option to slap her if he doesn't like what she says.

(in reply to kalikshama)

RE: How often does a Master usually put his slave into ... - 2/25/2014 5:37:45 PM

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Are you a slave with a communication problem or just having fun? I noticed your avatar does not link to a profile and the blogs you mention lead to a BDSM house. Regardless your post and the many responses helped me to see positions and slavery in a sobering light.

(in reply to leashedlaura)

RE: How often does a Master usually put his slave into ... - 2/25/2014 6:41:54 PM

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Interesting. Not uncommon to be unable to view a profile. The links don't take me to a BDSM house, however, I notice there is none of the third person speak. Wonder why we got so lucky.

(in reply to Blueswordsman)

RE: How often does a Master usually put his slave into ... - 2/25/2014 7:23:56 PM

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quote:

The problem is that he seems to caught up in his fantasy world to discuss the issue. I think if they could discuss it, there could possibly be some sort of compromise. Whether later in the day, or even after running through the position ritual, having a cup of coffee together and talking.

However, she gives the impression that she has to urinate outside the house every morning, so I don't believe this husband is ever going to entertain any kind of compromise that involves them talking as husband and wife without him having the option to slap her if he doesn't like what she says.

I agree that his earlier reactions do not bode well for compromise.

I was wondering if she was peeing outside, but as someone with extensive camping experience, that's the least of my concerns regarding her post

(in reply to LafayetteLady)

RE: How often does a Master usually put his slave into ... - 2/25/2014 9:37:17 PM

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I used to camp a lot, too. Plus with bladder issues, I'm not one to worry about pulling over and peeing just past the shoulder of the road. But that's also why I'm adament about the whole, when you gotta go, you go. That's why I made a point of mentioning the health risks involved in not being permitted to pee for long periods of time.

However, it seems as though the OP has gone "poof!" Based on looking at the links in her signature and the completely different writing style, either this was a "stir the pot" post or her "masterhusband" found out she posted and beat the shit out of her.

(in reply to kalikshama)

RE: How often does a Master usually put his slave into ... - 2/26/2014 6:22:47 AM

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When it comes to peeing...It's great to be a Guy. We can even write better in the snow

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RE: How often does a Master usually put his slave into ... - 2/26/2014 6:29:52 AM

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I PMd her and asked her to come back to the thread.

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RE: How often does a Master usually put his slave into ... - 2/26/2014 6:34:10 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Blueswordsman

When it comes to peeing...It's great to be a Guy. We can even write better in the snow

Not to mention that you only have to open buttons, we got to peel the jeans down... Gawd, the number of times I had to pee desperately during a long dog walk, and there is nothing worse than a cold nose being overly interested in what you do...

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RE: How often does a Master usually put his slave into ... - 2/26/2014 6:58:50 AM

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Ishtar, once again I am impressed with your thinking and your way of expressing things. Especially since English isn't even your first language.

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RE: How often does a Master usually put his slave into ... - 2/26/2014 7:48:47 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

I PMd her and asked her to come back to the thread.

I wouldn't blame her if she didn't come back. The sheer amount of prejudice and belittling of her lifestyle choices re Gor, is interesting... Though very unimpressive behaviour from a bunch of people who really shouldn't be throwing stones about the kinks of others.

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RE: How often does a Master usually put his slave into ... - 2/26/2014 8:48:08 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ARIES83

The sheer amount of prejudice and belittling of her lifestyle choices re Gor, is interesting... Though very unimpressive behaviour from a bunch of people who really shouldn't be throwing stones about the kinks of others.

I saw no prejudice or belittling of her lifestyle choices re Gor. I strongly believe the overall picture is one of abuse, not an alternate lifestyle choice. I totally admit we only have *her* side.

Her big issue after all was the matter of the Gor positions, which most of us didn't even address. I didn't, b/c given her lifestyle choice as a slave of several years, she should know there are things she is required to do she doesn't like. Hell there are things *I'm* required to do I don't like, and Gor slave I ain't.

Most of us addressed possible health issues and the huge red flag of him being unable or unwilling to have an adult discussion with her. If being a Gor slave means she doesn't have the right to bring it up, and she consistently wants to bring it up, that *should* be a hint to him that as a couple they may need to back up and redefine the relationship. Relationships are not static, they change, and being unable and unwilling to address that change is what I find so disturbing.

Slapping and punishing is never a good substitute for a healthy discussion, even if his bottom line is 'I like the positions, suck it up and deal with it.'

The shock collar is not safe. Granted I know little about it's use, but again given the entire picture it's yet another red flag to me.

I'm at a loss as to how this came down to you as prejudice and belittling.

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RE: How often does a Master usually put his slave into ... - 2/26/2014 8:59:14 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt

Slapping and punishing is never a good substitute for a healthy discussion, even if his bottom line is 'I like the positions, suck it up and deal with it.'

The shock collar is not safe. Granted I know little about it's use, but again given the entire picture it's yet another red flag to me.

I'm at a loss as to how this came down to you as prejudice and belittling.

Like you, I missed out on "belittling her lifestyle choices" but if what she says is true, the guy who claims to be her master is a stupid prat who has no idea about basic biological functions, wasn't aware that somebody deserves respect for being stupid and not bothering to be informed!

Even if she identifies as a slave, this is planet earth and she is still a human being with all the rights, furthermore she's his WIFE.

You know shock collars in Europe aren't allowed on dogs due to the health risk, if you wouldn't put something on a large animal with a much more robust system, it doesn't take a genius to figure out it's not a good idea to put it on somebody who doesn't even have fur, it shows a lack of concern for somebody elses safety and health, just like the holding the urine. Regarding his kicks about making her pee outside, well, if they're into it, cool. All the other stuff, the guy so needs a reality check, but hey if he doesn't bother to listen to her and rather slaps her, maybe he's going to listen to her lawyer when she ups and leaves, which is a very distinctive possibility.

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RE: How often does a Master usually put his slave into ... - 2/26/2014 9:40:42 AM

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Superb post. <tips hat>

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RE: How often does a Master usually put his slave into ... - 2/26/2014 1:33:09 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt

I saw no prejudice or belittling of her lifestyle choices re Gor. I strongly believe the overall picture is one of abuse, not an alternate lifestyle choice. I totally admit we only have *her* side.

Her big issue after all was the matter of the Gor positions, which most of us didn't even address. I didn't, b/c given her lifestyle choice as a slave of several years, she should know there are things she is required to do she doesn't like. Hell there are things *I'm* required to do I don't like, and Gor slave I ain't.

Most of us addressed possible health issues and the huge red flag of him being unable or unwilling to have an adult discussion with her. If being a Gor slave means she doesn't have the right to bring it up, and she consistently wants to bring it up, that *should* be a hint to him that as a couple they may need to back up and redefine the relationship. Relationships are not static, they change, and being unable and unwilling to address that change is what I find so disturbing.

Slapping and punishing is never a good substitute for a healthy discussion, even if his bottom line is 'I like the positions, suck it up and deal with it.'

The shock collar is not safe. Granted I know little about it's use, but again given the entire picture it's yet another red flag to me.

I'm at a loss as to how this came down to you as prejudice and belittling.

Excellent post, with which I'm in whole-hearted agreement.

She doesn't say whether they have any children together. After childbirth, bladder incontinence can become a major problem affecting every aspect of carrying out one's daily routine effectively, requiring medication to manage, or even surgical procedure(s). To set up one's slavewife for a future medical condition or to exacerbate an existing one is reckless and supremely irresponsible, not excusable in the This Is My Kink category.
There is not one single pet-owner I know who would use a shock collar.

Many would consider this inhumane treatment. For a dog.

The reason why OP didn't post on the Gorean forum is because she knew she would be berated for daring to not blindly follow the party line, ergo It's the Master's Right--correction, Spurious Whim.

[Edited to fix quote]

< Message edited by FieryOpal -- 2/26/2014 1:35:25 PM >

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