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RE: NO Safeword...?? - 3/21/2014 11:41:27 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FightingChains

You want a partner who will do whatever you want? As Chatte said, that is all well and good until you bring out the blowtorch.

The fact that the blowtorch may come out is exactly the reason I choose to not play with safe words. Because upon seeing that -if I had a safe word- you can bet your ass I'd be yelling it at him. Now, where that actually implore him to put it away... what would be the fun in that?
So considering he's going to ignore me anyways, safe words -for us- are useless.

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I am the dirt you created
I am your sinner
And your whore
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RE: NO Safeword...?? - 3/22/2014 12:08:01 AM

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Of course. And that's cool. Heck that fear alone would probably be enough to make me orgasm.

But would you have some other way to communicate "I think my ankle just snapped" - at least until you knew he could read the difference between what the dom/me was planning to inflict, and something seriously worrying. That trust takes time to build.

Thanks, Ishtar, now I'm wishing I was threatened with a blowtorch!

Damn you!

(in reply to UllrsIshtar)

RE: NO Safeword...?? - 3/22/2014 12:18:29 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FightingChains

But would you have some other way to communicate "I think my ankle just snapped"

Yeah, if ungagged: "I think my ankle just snapped". Doesn't that one apply for everybody though, even "no limits or safeword will be honored"? After all, notifying a person that you broke your ankle hardly counts as a safe word.
If gagged... well, I could try to make a fuckload of weird noises and hope he takes that as a cue to check.

Oh, and if the M-type's response to "my ankle is seriously damaged I think I might need rest and a doctor" is "suck it up and go haul wood in 2 feet of snow", then -in the past at least- that's what happened...

_____________________________

I can be your whore
I am the dirt you created
I am your sinner
And your whore
But let me tell you something baby
You love me for everything you hate me for

(in reply to FightingChains)

RE: NO Safeword...?? - 3/22/2014 12:23:06 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FightingChains

Thanks, Ishtar, now I'm wishing I was threatened with a blowtorch! Damn you!

PD (from index.com and infernal restraints) did a couple uber hot blow torch scenes over the years. It's been on my bucket list ever since.

_____________________________

I can be your whore
I am the dirt you created
I am your sinner
And your whore
But let me tell you something baby
You love me for everything you hate me for

(in reply to FightingChains)

RE: NO Safeword...?? - 3/22/2014 12:40:03 AM

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quote:

If gagged... well, I could try to make a fuckload of weird noises and hope he takes that as a cue to check.

Which is why there is such a thing as safety gestures, right? Using safe words with gag play rather defeats the purpose. If the pair wants a safe word, then institute a safe gesture for gag play, too. Some use finger snaps, etc. I opt for the Morse code for S.O.S. (3 long noises, 3 short noises, repeat) so they can hum it even when gagged, and it's specific enough that it won't happen by random.

It's either that, or agree before hand that gag play = no safe words.

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To each, their own kinks, and may they suffer beautifully.

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RE: NO Safeword...?? - 3/22/2014 12:44:15 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: frunandsins

It's either that, or agree before hand that gag play = no safe words.

Yeah for us; all play = no safe words.

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I can be your whore
I am the dirt you created
I am your sinner
And your whore
But let me tell you something baby
You love me for everything you hate me for

(in reply to frunandsins)

RE: NO Safeword...?? - 3/22/2014 12:46:31 AM

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As I'm saying, I don't have an issue with no safewords. I have an issue with ignored communication which seems to be the whole "domly persona" these profiles can put on.

(in reply to frunandsins)

RE: NO Safeword...?? - 3/22/2014 5:51:58 AM

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This is just Me, but I would fear anyone who is trying to meet a new submissive and tell them absolutely no safe words. Truthfully, I would be even more frightened for the new sub who would think this is normal, when it is far from that. I see it in established relationships, as they know each other good enough, and what the limits are, or whether or not those limits would be pushed.

This is way to close to the "no limits" submissive people I see on the other side. My first thought is always " woohoo... now I can do My one time, non-repeatable, death scene". I find those subs find out they have limits after all. Who knew?

Edited for early morning blurries. I hit quotes instead of My color >.<

< Message edited by MisterP61 -- 3/22/2014 5:53:24 AM >

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(in reply to FightingChains)

RE: NO Safeword...?? - 3/22/2014 7:27:09 AM

Kana

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quote:

You want a partner who will do whatever you want? As Chatte said, that is all well and good until you bring out the blowtorch.

WTF?
You folks make this out like it's a bad thing.

Or have I possibly been misinterpreting her reaction all these years?

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(in reply to MisterP61)

RE: NO Safeword...?? - 3/22/2014 7:34:04 AM

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Oh, Kana, blowtorch away... I wish my top had the balls to do it. He "cares" too much...

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RE: NO Safeword...?? - 3/22/2014 8:03:08 AM

Kana

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FightingChains

Oh, Kana, blowtorch away... I wish my top had the balls to do it. He "cares" too much...

See. This is where so many people go wrong.
They miss the paradox
They don't realize that by "'caring" so much, they hurt the slut.
But ruthlessly hurting the slut with no regard to her feelings can oft be the best way to show exactly how much you do "'care"'

_____________________________

"One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die. "
HST

(in reply to FightingChains)

RE: NO Safeword...?? - 3/22/2014 8:31:25 AM

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This was the original posting:

quote:

ORIGINAL: SubSlutSlave11

I am just wondering... When I read, "...no limits or safeword will be honored..." Are You (D/M) speaking of after ownership? Or during sessions or training?? I ask bc I am curious how it goes down. Do Your hards (or lack of limits) become theirs, automatically? Thanks in advance. :)

The OP isn't questioning no limits play with your partner whom you trust and know well. Diminants who put 'no limits will be honored' in a profile are looking for instant domination, instant trust, and sorry, that just doesn't work in the long term.

So however great it is to bandy about with how extreme people are with their partner, you're missing the point entirely. These douchcanoes don't even have a partner (at least, not for long). They are fantasy driven predators who look for victim types who are equally fantasy driven.

So to answer the OP. anyone who has 'no limits will be honored' in their profile is someone to be avoided at all costs. They are living in fantasy land, and predatory sadists in fantasy land do not make for good relationship material. Or even good play partner material.

The whole topic of limits, and how they can evolve and change over time is a good one. Most couple who have been together for several years have shared limits in some way, I'd say this is the norm.

But if I were seeking a dominant, I'd make sure his limits were in line with my own, and most especially in the getting to know phase.

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RE: NO Safeword...?? - 3/22/2014 9:43:08 AM

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I understand the other side of the argument, I really do.

I have had new submissives who didn't know what safe word is for and used it to mean "I don't like this" instead of "you are about to do severe damage to me that exceeds my capacity to handle" and they had used to direct the session. I had to stop and correct them, and some managed to pick up on it and some didn't. Nowadays I include the whole educational spiel about safe word for any new submissive applicants during the interview process and that seem to have eliminated that problem.

That said, I have also seen a male slave looking for castration play. He had already had one testicle removed and was then seeking to have the other one done. If he had said he doesn't want safe words, I'd believe him. From a new submissive? Or submissive with otherwise no credible resume? No, I wouldn't trust that sub's surrender from the get-go. I might come to trust his judgment later once we have met a few times, but not from the beginning. Possible exception might be if there's a lot of communication prior, through emails and texts and video play, and then once a chance to meet in real life comes up, the sub offers a no-safe-word play.

Finally, I would like to make a distinction between no-safe-word and no-limits. It is possible to set hard limits, and then within those boundaries, use no safe words. For instance, the pair may set hard limits of no animals, no blood, no permanent marks or damages, and then proceed without safe words. That means those items are still off limit, but those that are not on the list, like say spanking, will proceed without a safe word. But since the hard limits are no permanent marks and no blood, the spanking will only go so far. This is different from a no-limit play, where it really means every thing goes, from murder to castration to surgical modifications to animals to children. There is still danger in that, for new pairs, because what if the sub didn't think of breath-control and choking as a hard limit because they didn't know it was possible? So it is more reliable with new liaisons between experienced Doms and experienced subs, but less reliable when one or both parties are initiates in BDSM.

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To each, their own kinks, and may they suffer beautifully.

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RE: NO Safeword...?? - 3/22/2014 1:55:29 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt

The OP isn't questioning no limits play with your partner whom you trust and know well. Diminants who put 'no limits will be honored' in a profile are looking for instant domination, instant trust, and sorry, that just doesn't work in the long term.

While I can't be sure about the dude who the OP quoted, that's not my experience at all.

I've had a 'no limits and safe words' arrangement with every dominant guy I've ever met and played through this site on the first date. However, that's never meant 'I want instance trust' and always merely meant 'If you want to be in my life, you do what I say. Period. If you don't want to do what I say leave.'

That doesn't mean I would instantly trust them, hell, it didn't even mean I'd instantly do anything for them, but what it meant was that we weren't going to get into a negotiation game about what was and wasn't 'allowed'.

He was free to try anything he could/would/wanted to from day one, and the price he paid for pushing it too far would be me leaving. On the other hand, I was expected to not hold out and let my head dictate what I would or wouldn't do, and instead just react to what he was capable of making me want to do, and the price I'd pay for letting my head, instead of my feelings rule my reactions to him would be to no longer be allowed near him.

No limits/no safe words really isn't as scary, dangerous, or insane as people here keep pretending it is... unless you're dealing with an actually pshycho who will non-consensually keep you chained up in the basement when you want to leave... but if that's the dude you're dealing with... how exactly is having a safe word and a list of hard limits going to protect you against that?

_____________________________

I can be your whore
I am the dirt you created
I am your sinner
And your whore
But let me tell you something baby
You love me for everything you hate me for

(in reply to ChatteParfaitt)

RE: NO Safeword...?? - 3/22/2014 2:25:02 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar

No limits/no safe words really isn't as scary, dangerous, or insane as people here keep pretending it is... unless you're dealing with an actually pshycho who will non-consensually keep you chained up in the basement when you want to leave... but if that's the dude you're dealing with... how exactly is having a safe word and a list of hard limits going to protect you against that?

Yes, I'm going to agree with this part.

I would still question communication methods, in regards to safety, as there are no indications this dom would ever even listen to you. The profile text reads to me as if "I don't care about what you say at all" and that's pretty psychotic itself. But if this isn't the case and I'm reading it wrong (which is entirely possible and maybe even probable) then I don't see an issue. And you're right - if they're psychotic they would be that way whether they put it on their profile or not. I just think maybe this guy doesn't realise that such stuff is psychotic in the first place, which I'd weed out before playing.

But hey, I don't play casually, and never would. Kink, especially the edge play I love, is reserved only for the one I love and trust entirely. So this never has to worry me anyway.

I don't like the ability to safeword either. I'll just put that out there. I just need a way to say "hey, heart attack currently occurring" and let him be ready at the drop of a hat to know "this isn't bullshit".

(in reply to UllrsIshtar)

RE: NO Safeword...?? - 3/22/2014 5:14:01 PM

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You don't need a limits list if you both have the same limits. You don't need a safeword if he pays attention and if you are sufficiently self knowledgeable that you can explain to him what constitutes distress in you.

None of this means he's going to be Mr Extreme on the first meet. He may be, he may also never be interested in nailing your breasts to a board.

If he's willing to wait until he meets someone who has the same limits, the same outlook that he has, then he's doing the right thing for him.

Limit lists are not an excuse to not communicate and learn about each other. There is no short cut to that.

In theory, The Man can do anything he wants. However, what he wants most is for me to be happy and healthy. So he isn't going to put me in inverted suspension because he knows it will cause an attack of vertigo. I'm not limiting him, he is choosing to do so all by himself. I don't need limits with him. I do need to say that I'm on the edge of a vertigo attack. He needs that information so he can have my head hanging off the bed another day, instead of today.

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(in reply to FightingChains)

RE: NO Safeword...?? - 3/22/2014 5:53:09 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar

No limits/no safe words really isn't as scary, dangerous, or insane as people here keep pretending it is... unless you're dealing with an actually pshycho who will non-consensually keep you chained up in the basement when you want to leave... but if that's the dude you're dealing with... how exactly is having a safe word and a list of hard limits going to protect you against that?

Quoting again, because THIS. If you are playing with someone you don't know and trust, then how do you know they'll respect your safeword, even if you use it? If you are playing with someone you do know and trust, then you know that s/he will respect *you*, safeword or not.

In nearly four years together, Alpha and I have never used a safeword, never set limits, and (because we're both into it) cries of "no" or "stop" often do not mean no or stop. But in that time, he has never blown past a point that I was not willing to go past. For one, because I am not aware of any point I would not go past if he asked it of me. For two, because he knows me well enough to recognize genuine distress and act accordingly, as he decides is appropriate. Maybe that puts us on the extreme end of the spectrum, but it has worked very well for us. If I did not trust him that much, we would not be involved.

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(in reply to UllrsIshtar)

RE: NO Safeword...?? - 3/22/2014 6:41:50 PM

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Exactly. I mean, either you play with somebody who you think might be out to harm you, in which case... why the fuck are you playing with them? Or you play with somebody who you believe isn't out to harm you, in which safe words and hard limits just aren't really necessary, and normal communication would suffice.

Most of the time I don't even negotiate or talk about anything before playing with a guy I'm really into. We just kinda get going and feel each other's energy out in the moment.

But even iff I was to set up a casual play session with Kana, LadyPact, or Resident Sadist that included a discussion about limits I wouldn't need more negotiation -for *me* to feel fine- other than: I tend to have problems with circulation so be aware of that, I have a mild foot phobia so anything related to that may trigger panic attacks and I'll probably withdraw consent for stuff that could leave lasting consequences beyond the session (stuff leaving permanent marks, under skin scars, or STDs, though it would depend on the act on a case to case basis).

That would be it. Nothing more needed. If they wanted more information I'd answer questions, but at that point I'd feel 100% safe playing with them, no need to discuss any safewords or define stuff as hardlimits. If they at that point aren't comfortable, I'm more than happy to talk more, but I don't really feel like I'd need more for *my* protection, because I don't believe that any of them would be out to harm me.

Considering that I don't play with people whom I think might be out to harm me, I never really need more than that.

< Message edited by UllrsIshtar -- 3/22/2014 6:44:36 PM >

_____________________________

I can be your whore
I am the dirt you created
I am your sinner
And your whore
But let me tell you something baby
You love me for everything you hate me for

(in reply to FeralFoxy)

RE: NO Safeword...?? - 3/22/2014 7:15:05 PM

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Okay, I'm going to be the first one to admit I wouldn't play for the first time with someone who thought my limits shouldn't be honored.

It's not b/c I think limits or safewords are some sort of get out of harm free card, but b/c in a new relationship, I'm going to pay careful attention to if and how a dom keeps me safe and let's me know he wants to build trust. I don't go into first time play with a 'well, if this goes pear shaped and I end up in the hospital, I guess I'll cross that one off the list' attitude.

I understand criteria might be different in casual play. Of course you don't play with someone you think will harm you, I think everyone has that as criteria. But how do you know?

Not everyone has the experience you do. Some people need to be told that saying "I won't honor limits' in a profile is a red flag that spells predator, fantasist, or both, at least to me.

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RE: NO Safeword...?? - 3/22/2014 7:16:53 PM

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Post Deleted

< Message edited by FightingChains -- 3/22/2014 7:19:25 PM >

(in reply to UllrsIshtar)

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