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Switch Hatred - 5/1/2014 9:23:37 PM   
FightingChains


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Ok, I have to ask this... so many people seem to be "anti-switch." It seems like so many people actively detest switches... Any idea why?

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RE: Switch Hatred - 5/1/2014 10:25:24 PM   
FieryOpal


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Personally, I don't have anything against S/switches. I don't know very many and have never had a switch partner, but I'm open to considering one who is predominantly (no pun) submissive.

The only orientation which is absolute to me is no bisexuality. He must be totally straight because that's the only way I roll, regardless of whether he's a switch or a sub.

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RE: Switch Hatred - 5/2/2014 5:04:43 AM   
LadyLucan


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I don't 'hate' switches; I just know from bitter experience that they cannot give me the intensity of D/s relation I need.

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RE: Switch Hatred - 5/2/2014 6:40:15 AM   
OriginalRebel


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Its because some feel you can't possibly be "real," because you can enjoy both sides. What you have to do is let them deal with their own feelings and if they feel the need to express those feelings to you, gently remind them that our scene is supposed to be accepting of all kinks and that we should all have the opportunity to freely express who we are.

People have all sorts of preconceived notions of what a switch is. Some believe all switches are subs, others think that switches are not to be taken seriously, whilst others think that a switch is just an indecisive person. These people simply can't understand what is not a part of their makeup and some don't want to try. You have to accept you can't change these people, they don't want to change but keep in mind, there is nothing more healthy than following what you are and not what other people think you should be

Always keep in mind, when you lose the right to be different you then Lose the privilege to be free.

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RE: Switch Hatred - 5/2/2014 10:21:46 AM   
Nakhla


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I don't hate switches, but I might have some hesitation as I'm monogamous ( and in a broader sense of play partners not just sex partners ) and I'd hate the idea that my partner was going around with an unmet need I could never properly fulfill.

On the other hand, some people have experienced a transition from submissive or switch to dominant and I have no troubles being with them as they're not wanting submission to anyone.

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RE: Switch Hatred - 5/2/2014 10:39:18 AM   
joybaby


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I feel exactly as LadyLucan does (except from the other side). When i tell a switch that i'm only looking for a Dominant, they will always (at least, so far they have) tell me that they can be that for me. I have nothing against switches but they do nothing for meā€¦and no matter how dominant they "think" they can be, it won't be enough. I'm always polite but sometimes i just have to stop responding because some people won't take a polite no for an answer. And, even if i was swayed, wouldn't they (at some point) need their submissive needs met?

< Message edited by joybaby -- 5/2/2014 10:49:02 AM >

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RE: Switch Hatred - 5/2/2014 11:44:16 AM   
OriginalRebel


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I could imagine that becoming irritating joybaby. We all have our preferences and there is no problem having those preferences set in stone.

I will add though, not all switches have a submissive side. A dominant with a masochistic streak is still considered a switch. One of the attributes we expect from a dominant is self control and masochism requires a great deal of self control so it could be viewed that a masochistic dominant isn't contradictory.

I also know out and out slave women who will take their hand to a bull whip given the opportunity. I don't see what they do as a need, I see them as opportunists that enjoy a little fun whilst under their Masters supervision. They do however, require an element of sadism running through their veins to have that urge to hold the whip but its the type of sadism that is neither here or their. They are still switches.

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RE: Switch Hatred - 5/2/2014 3:07:38 PM   
NiceButMeanGirl


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I don't hate switches, as a matter of fact I used to be one myself for awhile. I do know, though, that one tried to switch on me after I'd become all Domme & it really bothered me. So, if I do get together w/ a switch, I'm going to be very careful about not allowing that.

NBMG

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RE: Switch Hatred - 5/2/2014 3:29:23 PM   
BecomingV


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quote:

ORIGINAL: joybaby
And, even if i was swayed, wouldn't they (at some point) need their submissive needs met?


Maybe. It may take a conversation to ascertain specifically how the switch defines themselves.

For instance, I identify as a switch because I discovered 2 distinct and wholly felt truths in my experiences. I could never relate to an ex-Dom in a dominant way. Nor could I submit to a former submissive. For me, being a switch means that I can immerse myself and express myself in totally freeing ways. I feel lucky to have what feels to me like range. So, it's about specific ways of relating to one specific individual. In other words, in some relationships, I'm submissive and in others I am dominant. I don't switch within the same relationship. Some switches do.

This is why it's important to ask questions. Labels alone, are insufficient and assumptions may impede clarity.

OP - the thing about haters... not worth a second thought. I just file a quick mental memo: avoid that person. Then give time and attention to the worthy.

_____________________________

Talk about loving travel!!! My BDSM journey to Switch took me to these places...
Previously known as:
sub - TwoHeartsBeatOne
Domme - Lady Q

(in reply to joybaby)
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RE: Switch Hatred - 5/2/2014 3:38:58 PM   
BecomingV


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quote:

ORIGINAL: OriginalRebel

I will add though, not all switches have a submissive side. A dominant with a masochistic streak is still considered a switch



At best, I'd say that's an area of debate. I think that debate leans towards the side of the very definition of "switch" IS being both Dominant and submissive.

A masochistic Dominant may order the submissive to "top," which is about service through providing stimulation and acting in accordance with the commands of their Dominant.

D/s and S&M are entirely different concepts. It's worth reading about.

_____________________________

Talk about loving travel!!! My BDSM journey to Switch took me to these places...
Previously known as:
sub - TwoHeartsBeatOne
Domme - Lady Q

(in reply to OriginalRebel)
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RE: Switch Hatred - 5/2/2014 6:15:56 PM   
SeekingTrinity


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From: The 'burbs of Portland, OR
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~FRing it~

Meh, our switch situation works fantastically for my guy and I. I tend to find more switch loathing online than I ever have in person.

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RE: Switch Hatred - 5/2/2014 9:26:58 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
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From: Apple County NY
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Hatred? No.

I'm simply not compatible for the same reason Nakhla expressed. I'm monogamous and could not fulfill his needs.

What those of us who don't switch get, and is very tiresome, is being hassled by someone because we aren't interested in a switch partner. Too often they confuse our need for dominance to be a need for sadism. Being the leader in the relationship is about much more than who pitches and who catches.

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RE: Switch Hatred - 5/2/2014 10:41:53 PM   
DarkSteven


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BecomingV


quote:

ORIGINAL: joybaby
And, even if i was swayed, wouldn't they (at some point) need their submissive needs met?


Maybe. It may take a conversation to ascertain specifically how the switch defines themselves.

For instance, I identify as a switch because I discovered 2 distinct and wholly felt truths in my experiences. I could never relate to an ex-Dom in a dominant way. Nor could I submit to a former submissive. For me, being a switch means that I can immerse myself and express myself in totally freeing ways. I feel lucky to have what feels to me like range. So, it's about specific ways of relating to one specific individual. In other words, in some relationships, I'm submissive and in others I am dominant. I don't switch within the same relationship. Some switches do.

This is why it's important to ask questions. Labels alone, are insufficient and assumptions may impede clarity.

OP - the thing about haters... not worth a second thought. I just file a quick mental memo: avoid that person. Then give time and attention to the worthy.



Beautiful.

I try to define two different kinds of switches.

Those that NEED to have both sides fulfilled, and those that ARE WILLING to have both sides fulfilled. BecomingV, you're obviously an example of the second type.

As far as hating someone for not being 100% compatible - sheesh, I'd be hating the world. I'd hate

Dommes
lesbians
switches
married women
men
women that live away and won't relocate

Simply focus on the ones who ARE compatible.

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The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

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RE: Switch Hatred - 5/2/2014 11:32:42 PM   
epiphiny43


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The haters and the 'switch intolerant' are simply too lazy or too closed minded to get to KNOW the person behind the label. Which is what building any relationship is.
The assumption all switches have to have any and every particular potential fulfilled with every partner isn't ever applied to the hater or most other people. Some 'switches' Do need to be both roles at some time in every relationship. Most switches I know can enjoy an aspect of power exchange with a particular partner the same way they enjoy roller coasters or Bob Dylan. At appropriate times and places, managing to live a fairly nice life if either never happens.
Try to tell that to some that don't see them self as a switch and who had a disappointing experience with a compulsive role switcher and now can't move on. One past person and disappointment is now everyone they can fit under the Switch umbrella. Hopefully they are this dysfunctional perceiving reality about people only with this one label?
As a 'switch', I look for a Domme who has the charisma and strength of personality to inspire my submission and shares the proclivities I'm interested in and have No interest in reversing those roles. If asked, I'd happily Top her, as directed. Domination just isn't of interest.
Occasionally I meet someone who makes me feel dominant as their personality and our chemistry invites that. I have yet to meet such a one who made submission to her interesting, as it wasn't who she was. Again, I could bottom to her for whatever reasons we felt were valid, in both cases the experiments in role reversal would have no bearing on the essential nature of our relationship.
I've also met one or two who can enjoy frequent switching within a relationship and a session. Finding both aspects of power exchange attractive with THAT person, because I saw them as extremely interesting as both Domme and sub because that's who She was. Her enthusiasm created a space that invited me, the same as a magnificent Domme invites my submission. I'd have pursued it if other connections in our lives hadn't interfered.

< Message edited by epiphiny43 -- 5/2/2014 11:52:15 PM >

(in reply to DarkSteven)
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RE: Switch Hatred - 5/3/2014 1:29:34 AM   
OriginalRebel


Posts: 93
Joined: 4/18/2014
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BecomingV


quote:

ORIGINAL: OriginalRebel

I will add though, not all switches have a submissive side. A dominant with a masochistic streak is still considered a switch



At best, I'd say that's an area of debate. I think that debate leans towards the side of the very definition of "switch" IS being both Dominant and submissive.

A masochistic Dominant may order the submissive to "top," which is about service through providing stimulation and acting in accordance with the commands of their Dominant.

D/s and S&M are entirely different concepts. It's worth reading about.


I have a very broad understanding of D/s and S&M.

I think on this site, which is primarily a D/s site, the definition of switch leads to it being thought of as both dominant and submissive but a switch can be many things including "Top" (a sadist) and "bottom" (a masochist). There are long term switch partners that completely embrace themselves in the D/s element and there are people who never add D/s into their dynamic.

A slave providing an entertaining service for her Master isn't a switch but that wasn't what I was saying. A slave who looks eagerly at the whip and craves to whip some random subs ass likely is.

What I was saying is, you don't have to be dominant or submissive to be a switch and you don't have to be a masochist or a sadist to be a switch, you do however need to be in one of those groups and of course you could be in both.

(in reply to BecomingV)
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RE: Switch Hatred - 5/3/2014 6:42:36 AM   
FieryOpal


Posts: 2821
Joined: 12/8/2013
From: Maryland
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Hate is such a strong word. I don't think that being a switch per se would evoke a strongly negative response. It's really a matter of personal preference, both for S/switches and for those who identify as D-types and s-types. There may be a few folks who act like irrational idiots, but they would be prejudicial towards other groups of people, no doubt.

As long as a person is upfront and truthful about who they are, what they want, and don't lead any potential partners on, it's a non-issue.
How many Dominants are actually Dominant?
How many submissives are actually submissive?
Some are sado-masochistic and others of us aren't.
Some are hetero and others are non-hetero or hetero-flexible.
Some want monogamy and others don't, whether they practice polyamory, whether they are swingers, or are just looking for an excuse to fuck around.
It can be especially confusing for newcomers to D/s and to BDSM.

It's all relative to individual dynamics.

_____________________________

Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage. - Lao Tzu
There is no remedy for love but to love more. - Thoreau

(in reply to FightingChains)
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RE: Switch Hatred - 5/3/2014 6:29:40 PM   
BecomingV


Posts: 916
Joined: 11/11/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OriginalRebel


quote:

ORIGINAL: BecomingV


quote:

ORIGINAL: OriginalRebel

I will add though, not all switches have a submissive side. A dominant with a masochistic streak is still considered a switch



At best, I'd say that's an area of debate. I think that debate leans towards the side of the very definition of "switch" IS being both Dominant and submissive.

A masochistic Dominant may order the submissive to "top," which is about service through providing stimulation and acting in accordance with the commands of their Dominant.

D/s and S&M are entirely different concepts. It's worth reading about.


I have a very broad understanding of D/s and S&M.

I think on this site, which is primarily a D/s site, the definition of switch leads to it being thought of as both dominant and submissive but a switch can be many things including "Top" (a sadist) and "bottom" (a masochist). There are long term switch partners that completely embrace themselves in the D/s element and there are people who never add D/s into their dynamic.

A slave providing an entertaining service for her Master isn't a switch but that wasn't what I was saying. A slave who looks eagerly at the whip and craves to whip some random subs ass likely is.

What I was saying is, you don't have to be dominant or submissive to be a switch and you don't have to be a masochist or a sadist to be a switch, you do however need to be in one of those groups and of course you could be in both.



Bold ^^^ is mine to highlight where opinions differ.

OP -this is a great example of what happens when intelligent minds differ. Assuming both posters are fairly experienced, well-read and earnest; these varying points of view still arise. The need to gain understanding of another person's use of a term or label is clearly shown in this one exchange. While there are coalitions, bestsellers and presenters to turn to for some sense of central, unified meaning(s), these too, vary in credibility and esteem.

So, which meanings are correct and how is that proven? Does anyone have the answer?

For now, I do accept a consensus of opinion as "reality" and I think that OriginalRebel's point about taking note of which site "you" are using is important, as it may affect how meanings are commonly understood.

I suspect that a lot of anti-switch sentiments are based on sheer ignorance and negative assumptions. Sadly, some switch-hating arises from the same place as hatred of bisexual, biracial and transgender people. Some folks appear to be myopic, polarized and well... let's call it what it is... mentally deficient.

The OP asks a particularly deep question. I turn to Foucault's concept of "Othering" for that answer:

http://www.netplaces.com/philosophy-book/modern-and-postmodern-philosophers/michel-foucault.htm



< Message edited by BecomingV -- 5/3/2014 6:38:53 PM >


_____________________________

Talk about loving travel!!! My BDSM journey to Switch took me to these places...
Previously known as:
sub - TwoHeartsBeatOne
Domme - Lady Q

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RE: Switch Hatred - 5/4/2014 12:43:58 AM   
FightingChains


Posts: 293
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Lets face it: Labelling is stupid. It voids our own differences. I am not a traditional submissive or dominant, I'm not a standard masochist or a standard sadist. I do top and bottom, I am controlling and like being controlled, I want to hurt and I want to be hurt (though I don't enjoy it). So what am I? On this site, I have to choose switch. If I was to pick a label, it would be switch because it most adequately describes the variant nature inside of me.

So you want to clarify labels, I reckon you're completely missing the fact that labels are stupid as they completely ignore complexity.

On sites like this however, people who do not just fit into "submissive" or "dominant" roles are generally disliked, though hatred is a strong word I agree.

So if I was searching on a site like this for a partner I would give up. Seriously, if I wanted a partner, I'd never try involving BDSM or D/s. I'd rather go vanilla than have to deal with the bullshit that gets thrown around here about "No switches". How about you judge me for who I am? How about you get to know me for being FightingChains, not my label?

Prejudging "switches", or defining them according to your personal understanding of that term, seems pretty stupid to me.

< Message edited by FightingChains -- 5/4/2014 12:54:45 AM >


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RE: Switch Hatred - 5/4/2014 1:11:33 AM   
BecomingV


Posts: 916
Joined: 11/11/2013
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FC - Your post is so off base, I am wondering if you hit the reply button by accident? Or, did you misunderstand what you read? LOL We mostly agree, you see. (but I'm not angry at anyone)

_____________________________

Talk about loving travel!!! My BDSM journey to Switch took me to these places...
Previously known as:
sub - TwoHeartsBeatOne
Domme - Lady Q

(in reply to FightingChains)
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RE: Switch Hatred - 5/4/2014 1:34:27 AM   
FightingChains


Posts: 293
Joined: 3/18/2014
Status: offline
Didn't mean that as a reply to you. Should have been a Fast Reply.

_____________________________

"Get comfortable in your skin; you're going to be in it for a while."

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