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RE: CollarMe has gone - 5/24/2014 3:15:50 AM

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Well… let's see. If the address that has been taking everyone to this site for years now takes them somewhere else…. I'm thinking they will be somewhere else and not here.

Or am I missing something?

Only the more savvy or dedicated will find it. I expect from reading Tiffany's stuff she will be sure there is no link back here from her blog. I found it elsewhere.

(in reply to MsLadySue)

RE: CollarMe has gone - 5/24/2014 3:23:57 AM

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I don't know how true Tiffany's blog story about Eric is. I know it has been volatile. The fact is he didn't pull the site in a tantrum . . . she did. Blaming it on him was silly. She is not taking credit for what she did.

He has already fully restored the collarme data base at collarspace.com. That is the hard work and actions of stable person with focus. She is somewhere trying to fuck up the website from her cell phone.

If I had to make a judgement call from just what I have seen in the past 24 hours . . . she is all drama and problems. He is action and hard work. Granted, her baby's heart problems are a hell of thing to get saddled with. But what has that got to do with us and why is it on a blog trying to make Eric look bad? What does her baby's heart have to do with CollarMe a kinky dating site? It looks like a well played professional victim story trying to blame her nasty actions on him.

He lives a lavish lifestyle because of his work (not collarme). That is why he needs someone to run collarme, he is busy. He is also not a smooth salesman that is real good at human relations. But he is certainly the smarter one. She doesn't seem to know anything about the internet or websites or she never would have pulled this stunt. She cut herself out. Basically, she now owns and empty domain with very few link backs for search engine rankings. As the spiders crawl collarme over the next few days, its ranking will fall because NO CONTENT.

However, he has the content, the membership with the profiles and he gave it all back to us in a matter of hours... Now the link backs from collarchat will push it up the rankings in a matter of days. So when push came to shove, someone brought a knife to gun fight. In my mind this discounts her self proclaimed business acumen. How can she be the mover and shaker of collarme and bring in all that revenue if she doesn't even know how it works? Sounds more like someone owned a domain name and tried to hold it over a hard working man's head.

I don't know if he is truly an asshole to work with . . . but he has never been an asshole to us, she has. And that is truth of it.

< Message edited by ResidentSadist -- 5/24/2014 3:28:47 AM >

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RE: CollarMe has gone - 5/24/2014 3:35:53 AM

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I will admit yes it seems a bit like a tantrum but when someone is being racked over the coals without a rational solution they lash out.
If one can not pay bills it comes to a survival instinct. When businesses go under although they may empAthize with the customers it comes to a financial decision to save ones self. To not do anything is stupidity in my book.
If you make a deAl you honor it. Plain and simple.
Many people don't follow that anymore it's a huge mistake.

(in reply to ResidentSadist)

RE: CollarMe has gone - 5/24/2014 3:55:43 AM

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ResidentSadist,

everything you wrote makes perfect sense and especially all the comments about Tiffany are true. She is not stable. She does not know how little she can affect CM as a site and most important, she has shown and proven not to be trusted.

If her personal situation is like it is and she is very desperate, her actions are understandable. They are not right. She only shows everyone in the world she needs help and I sincerly hope she will eventually find it. Maybe this gives her a little support, although it would never work if she would run a site like this ...

Where I disagree with you is about Eric (did not know his name before). He could have prevented this. He could have made sure it would never come this far, no matter how stable she is or not.

Also, it is extremely bad management of the situation from his side to not make any sort of statememt. It is easy to write a statment that does not admit the story is true and at the same time does not reveal any unwanted information. It's called public relations and in the days of social media and the internet it is a basic requirement to be able to do so. The simple fact there was nothing, shows that this is not being dealt with properly.

Also, you were sending them a proposal and they did not take it. Well, if there is a little truth in Tiffany's story, then the lack of feedback and response you got must be a lot because of him. Even if not, he runs the show and he is responsible.

The fish always stinks from the head.

(in reply to ResidentSadist)

RE: CollarMe has gone - 5/24/2014 4:15:19 AM

Posts: 12580
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From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
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quote:

ORIGINAL: WooHoooo
Well… let's see. If the address that has been taking everyone to this site for years now takes them somewhere else…. I'm thinking they will be somewhere else and not here.

Or am I missing something?

Only the more savvy or dedicated will find it. I expect from reading Tiffany's stuff she will be sure there is no link back here from her blog. I found it elsewhere.

Nope, they will come here. Here is where the content and membership is no matter what the domain name is.

First, your thinking about the existing membership is at least 25% wrong . 25% of all members that used to visit collarme also visited these forums. They will still come here and the link backs from here will be to collarspace. If I were Eric I also would have bought collarmemoved.com and whereiscollarme.com and redirect them to collarspace.com because that is what people will type in the search engines trying to find the old content. Web names count a lot in ranking.

You seem to think the domain name means something. Collarme.com didn't have over a million new user each year because of the domain name. NEW members don't know the domain name... they foumd it through the search engines. 200,000 new members each month come here from the search engines and search ranking comes from content and link backs. . . which collarme.com no longer has. EVERY SINGLE one of the 100,000+ posts that are listed in search engines will point at collarspace in the future. It runs from a database that I am sure someone is programming to point post author profile links back to collarspace.com, not collarme. It may have already been done and the DNS just has to catch up. collarspace will get its search rank weight back within 24 hours or so.

As far as the old members go, when they hit collarme and find an empty BDSM dating website without membership or software, they will search for what they did originally (or something similar) and see the collarspace.com listing. With the old members coming back to find their profiles intact and still getting 200,000 new members a month, collarspace.com will do just fine. However, anyone that rejoins the old collarme.com and makes a new profile will find it empty and get to enjoy NO NEW traffic . . . which for a dating site is death.

So yes, collame is dead without membership or content. Yes, collame is dead without the 100,000+ link backs from these forums that give it a decent search engine ranking and bring fresh meat to a dating site in the form of 200,000 members a month.

Yes, collarspace.com will do just fine and barely feel the dent. Go there and check out your profile, nothing changed. When DNS propagates, I am sure your author profile links here will point back to collarspace not collarme.

Like changing the name of a ship . . . everything is going to be exactly the same, just with a different name.

< Message edited by ResidentSadist -- 5/24/2014 4:16:38 AM >

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RE: CollarMe has gone - 5/24/2014 4:33:13 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: legalANALyizer

ResidentSadist,

everything you wrote makes perfect sense and especially all the comments about Tiffany are true. She is not stable. She does not know how little she can affect CM as a site and most important, she has shown and proven not to be trusted.

If her personal situation is like it is and she is very desperate, her actions are understandable. They are not right. She only shows everyone in the world she needs help and I sincerly hope she will eventually find it. Maybe this gives her a little support, although it would never work if she would run a site like this ...

Where I disagree with you is about Eric (did not know his name before). He could have prevented this. He could have made sure it would never come this far, no matter how stable she is or not.

Also, it is extremely bad management of the situation from his side to not make any sort of statememt. It is easy to write a statment that does not admit the story is true and at the same time does not reveal any unwanted information. It's called public relations and in the days of social media and the internet it is a basic requirement to be able to do so. The simple fact there was nothing, shows that this is not being dealt with properly.

Also, you were sending them a proposal and they did not take it. Well, if there is a little truth in Tiffany's story, then the lack of feedback and response you got must be a lot because of him. Even if not, he runs the show and he is responsible.

The fish always stinks from the head.

I agree that he is ultimately responsible. But I don't see it as the fish sinking, just renamed.

About foresight an prevention . . . if Tiffany is as unstable as she seems (I only have her recent actions to judge by), collarme has been running that way for years and he may not have been able to foresee this. It may be the pressure from the problems with the baby and she just recently went whacko. I don't know, just guessing. I mean, should he have ignored the friendship and pact made when they first launched collarme and dumped her years ago? Too many "what ifs" to even guess at that one.

About his lack of communication. In the middle of the night he has relaunched the other side at a new domain and I am sure he has been real busy. I am glad his priority was to give us back collarme content and ignore the drama. As I understand from working with the mods, they say his personal communication skills are not his strong suit. Which may be where Tiffany's skills did come in all these years when it comes to making things work around here. Maybe he just has nothing good to say about this and silence is golden.

I do know this . . . someone was burning a lot of midnight oil to keep this site up and relaunch everything. It may be bad management that brought us to this but it was good management to recover so quickly from a bad problem... like losing your domain.

< Message edited by ResidentSadist -- 5/24/2014 4:34:19 AM >

_____________________________

-=BDSM Book List=- Reading is Fundamental !!!
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RE: CollarMe has gone - 5/24/2014 4:44:43 AM

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I am off to go get breakfast. For those skimming the thread:

Your profiles are now at:

CollarSpace.com

_____________________________

-=BDSM Book List=- Reading is Fundamental !!!
I give good thread.

(in reply to WooHoooo)

RE: CollarMe has gone - 5/24/2014 4:52:26 AM

shemalegabrielle

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Joined: 12/11/2011
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ive just noticed the chatrooms arent working or are you still in progress with the changeover ??

(in reply to ResidentSadist)

RE: CollarMe has gone - 5/24/2014 4:54:47 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist
Maybe he just has nothing good to say about this and silence is golden.

I do know this . . . someone was burning a lot of midnight oil to keep this site up and relaunch everything. It may be bad management that brought us to this but it was good management to recover so quickly from a bad problem... like losing your domain.

This.

He doesn't need to contribute to the existing drama. He's doing what he needs to do which is focusing on ensuring people have access to their accounts and site content via collarspace.com

< Message edited by MissMorrigan -- 5/24/2014 5:02:08 AM >

(in reply to ResidentSadist)

RE: CollarMe has gone - 5/24/2014 5:39:47 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissMorrigan

quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist
Maybe he just has nothing good to say about this and silence is golden.

I do know this . . . someone was burning a lot of midnight oil to keep this site up and relaunch everything. It may be bad management that brought us to this but it was good management to recover so quickly from a bad problem... like losing your domain.

This.

He doesn't need to contribute to the existing drama. He's doing what he needs to do which is focusing on ensuring people have access to their accounts and site content via collarspace.com

Exactly.

_____________________________

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(in reply to MissMorrigan)

RE: CollarMe has gone - 5/24/2014 5:56:40 AM

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The simple fact that the majority of the code from CM is present at another domain should be a clue that something has been 'up' for quite some time.

It is very obvious that the mutuality aspect of 'Eric' and 'Tiffany's' partnership not only broke down, but completely disintegrated, quite some time ago. Based on everything I've read, some things to me are apparent - based on observation of the events, knowledge of the industry and written words (mostly by 'Tiffany') herself:

- Tiffany is the registered owner of he domain name. This has not been disputed.

- Eric is the code owner and likely lead developer of the site's framework and content management system. This has not been disputed.

- Fact: all the content - ALL OF IT - becomes the property of the registered domain holder once users have agreed to share content. If you're skeptical of that I suggest you become familiar with Terms of Use agreements. There is no 'Right to Privacy' if you choose to post personal content on community style websites. As of now, the content legally owned by Tiffany ('collarme') is confined to her Wordpress blog currently occupying the domain. The content of the website is owned now by 'Collarspace'. Why? Simply put, because that's where it is and that's how content ownership within the web sphere actually works.

- Obviously, Eric (or an unknown other partner) owns the domain names 'collar chat' and 'collar space'. It is likely Eric foresaw potential trouble ahead with Tiffany (her own written words confirm this) and quietly prepared for an inevitable break and wisely reserved these two domain names: one to appear as BAU (collar chat) and one kept for future inevitability (collar space).

- Entire web systems do not get shut down simply because of a domain name ownership difference. Eric had to be preparing for the shift to a wholly-owned domain of his own for weeks - if not months. At the very least, he must have known the split was irrecoverably in motion and he knew he had to be prepared. The timing - a long weekend in May in the United States - does seem fortuitous.

- In my thoughts, Tiffany's Wordpress post on the CM domain is an attempt at personal damage control: I do not believe, due to my own knowledge of the industry, that she was the impetus that shut the site down on her domain side. There is a reason Eric is keeping quiet, I think (which to me is exactly what he should be keeping) in the event that some kind of litigation may be forthcoming. Tiffany doesn't seem to realize her own Wordpress 'plea' and explanation can be construed in ways which can be detrimental to her in any legal proceedings.

- No one has any vested metaphorical horse in this race: a business decision was made, a quiet and relatively smooth transition to another domain was accomplished very, very quickly (which again points to strong suspicion of preparedness on Eric's part) and the domain owner was caught completely by surprise and somehow of the belief that her ownership of the domain name gave her the ultimate control of the website's templates, back end systems, software management systems and all the content (public and otherwise). She has now realized that by being 'fired' (or more correctly, that their partnership was dissolved) and having an offer tendered to her shaped and termed in the manner of a buy-out was a calculated and necessary process step in removing her influence completely from the site. Eric had to know that, if she sold him the domain name, the transition may have registered a small blip on the system user's radar ... It was obvious he was prepared for her refusal to agree to the terms, as the site is up and running under a new domain name already.

- We all feel badly about Tiffany's baby. Who wouldn't? But this isn't about emotion ... This is strictly business. The split was coming for a long time: and somehow I believe Eric delayed this action simply because of the critical situation with the newborn. When it was more opportune timing to act, he did. Because of the separate 'collar chat' domain, I'd been suspecting something like this was going to happen for quite some time. I don't know Tiffany and I don't know Eric: but based on the facts of what happened here, it's very apparent to me that what was done was accomplished methodically and by due process - and not as a 'panic' to simply pulling a domain name.

- The smart and noble thing: use Collar Space as a mirror back-up system. Arrange the purchase of CollarMe as the domain name from Tiffany. Grant her, through contract, residuals or royalties (however you want to word it) with a legally authored and notarized contract for a set period of time (worded for CollarMe only and NOT other future projects and NOT in perpetuity). Agree to have her listed as a 'consultant' whether her services are ever needed or not (tax purposes for both of you). Then hopefully live their separate lives ... The residual money from ad revenues (even 2% would be significant) per month would help with the baby's medical bills.

I sincerely hope this situation does come to a win-win agreement for both involved parties. I hope neither of them decides to allow hubris and thirst for retribution to cloud what otherwise should be a straightforward business negotiation. Otherwise, it's the patrons of the system who end up the biggest losers in this disagreement, ultimately.

< Message edited by DokktorSatan -- 5/24/2014 6:04:20 AM >

(in reply to MissMorrigan)

RE: CollarMe has gone - 5/24/2014 6:02:18 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissMorrigan
He doesn't need to contribute to the existing drama. He's doing what he needs to do which is focusing on ensuring people have access to their accounts and site content via collarspace.com

He has to. That's the most basic requirement. It does not matter how much midnight oil rigging needed to be done, it was the only option he had and I do not think many "thank you's" are required for this, it is just too basic.

He does not have to address the drama directly but he has to do something that does not make him look like the obnoxious guy with comunication issues that got hurt.

No offense, but what ResidentSadist wrote about how they reacted when changes were proposed (and it is not the fact that they said "no") alone already shows that this site is run by someone who does not care about the people that put money into his pocket. Maybe he does care, but he does have serious problems to show it then.

That is enough for me to reconsider sharing my personal information on this site not only with my friends I found here but also with him. I am sorry, but what I know now shows that it is not possible to trust this person with my personal and imtimate information and let him even make money from it.

I would and probably should not care less, knowing that the traffic to the site will be back to previous levels soon and that he will get money from advertising ... but if there is only a hint of truth in what we've seen, that traffic will not be really enough as long as the show is run by someone completely ignorant to change and improvement.

It is impossible to not comunicate. No statement, no message has a meaning and that is not always "golden" and it is just a different form of communication.

I meant that the fish smells from his head. And this one does to the point you don't want to be close anymore. OK, I get that some might to like the smell. No, it will not "sink" anytime soon, but it will go downhill more and more as long as there is no change. It's sad, it was a fun ride most of the time.

(in reply to MissMorrigan)

RE: CollarMe has gone - 5/24/2014 6:12:20 AM

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It is sad what Tiffany is dealing with in regard to her daughter. However, I must say that she basically said a roaring "screw you" to those of us that were in the process of building relationships on this site. I sympathize with her for what she is going through. But two wrongs do not make a right. Regardless of whatever motives he has, I do not claim to know, I thank Eric for getting the damn site up and running again.

(in reply to legalANALyizer)

RE: CollarMe has gone - 5/24/2014 6:12:44 AM

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From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DokktorSatan

The simple fact that the majority of the code from CM is present at another domain should be a clue that something has been 'up' for quite some time.

Although CollarSpace.com was registered back in 2007, just as technical note, there is an export function that makes migration easier. However, from tidbits I have picked up, I think Eric works in the IT field and may host the website on a server cluster he has access to or owns. he wouldn't have to actually move all the data, just point the new domain name to the old database and software.

The other side (collarspace) is having a few bugs, lots of missing pictures and few CMS display bugs. Stuff that needs to be fine tuned with all the new zones in place.

_____________________________

-=BDSM Book List=- Reading is Fundamental !!!
I give good thread.

(in reply to DokktorSatan)

RE: CollarMe has gone - 5/24/2014 6:14:55 AM

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Here's the thing I find hilarious the legal "experts" in this thread are overlooking. If Tiffany's blog is at all accurate then the site owner is in flagrant violation of a contract with a woman with a sick child. He may be able to delay and he may be able mess her around to try and get her to settle be cause she needs to money now rather than later but the simple fact is contract is a contract and the site owner appears to be in violation.

If Tiffany actually exists and is reading this, retain a good business attorney. CM generates enough traffic that the ad revenue is worth quite a lot of money and the owner owes you your cut.

< Message edited by DomKen -- 5/24/2014 6:29:44 AM >

(in reply to legalANALyizer)

RE: CollarMe has gone - 5/24/2014 6:15:04 AM

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You're not much of a 'legal analyzer' if you're claiming Eric is legally obligated to make some sort of public statement. He is not. He's actually doing the smart thing by allowing the site to maintain a business as usual current state through this dramatic period and remaining quiet. On the chance legalities do become necessary, it's Tiffany who has already hurt her case by blasting out a statement (one which drips of desperation). While we're all sympathetic to her, what's transpiring is simply ... Business.

I've suggested a moderate course of action for both of them earlier. Your insistence on saying Eric is 'required' to say something would only help to satisfy one person's absolute need to know: yours. He isn't legally obligated to say bupkis, especially just to further add seething drama to a public just thirsting for more things to gossip and obsess about ...

The site is up. Let them work it out now, amongst themselves and legal counsel if necessary.

< Message edited by DokktorSatan -- 5/24/2014 6:21:33 AM >

(in reply to legalANALyizer)

RE: CollarMe has gone - 5/24/2014 6:18:16 AM

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Interesting post with lots of interesting thoughts. I want to point out one thing, though:

quote:

ORIGINAL: DokktorSatan
- Fact: all the content - ALL OF IT - becomes the property of the registered domain holder once users have agreed to share content. If you're skeptical of that I suggest you become familiar with Terms of Use agreements. There is no 'Right to Privacy' if you choose to post personal content on community style websites. As of now, the content legally owned by Tiffany ('collarme') is confined to her Wordpress blog currently occupying the domain. The content of the website is owned now by 'Collarspace'. Why? Simply put, because that's where it is and that's how content ownership within the web sphere actually works.

This is not true and actually makes legally no sense at all. I believe that Tiffany might even think that way, but it is simply wrong. CollarMe runs on a server somewhere at a webhosting company. The domain is only the address that points to it. The operators of the server and the ones who run the database and the content run the show and own it. It just got moved to a new address.

Think of it as the McDonald's down the road got kicked out by the owner of the land and they are forced to move into a building in the next block on a short notice. Do you think the owner of the building has any right to the secrect Big Mac sauce recipie? Of course McDonald's would not suffer much as everyone that wants to eat a hamburger will sooner or later see the new restraurant on the next block. The only one that suffers is the owner of the land, at least as long as no one else moves in that brings money.

Another dimension to this is that there is a product called CollarMe - a popular kink oriented dating site. This product has been created by someone (which is more likely to be the owner of the code, not the domain name). It is run in fact by a company that also owns the trademark. This is all public information that can be found in minutes in Google. With the trademark, even the domain ownership could change and the damage Tiffany caused (assuming it can be put into numbers based on missing advertising income) can be claimed as well.

I am sorry to say, but if Tiffany has no contract that is valid and not terminated and that says she owns something and if she is not a shareholder of the company that runs the site (owns the code), then she has no rights at all and she will loose eventually everything. That's sad considering her personal situation. She lost it, she needs help.

But there is the moral point of view as well and it seems Eric has to do something here and learn at least some communication skills, otherwise he will leave a message to everyone that makes people not want to be involved.

He has the key. It can go either way.

(in reply to DokktorSatan)

RE: CollarMe has gone - 5/24/2014 6:22:23 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

quote:

ORIGINAL: DokktorSatan

The simple fact that the majority of the code from CM is present at another domain should be a clue that something has been 'up' for quite some time.

Although CollarSpace.com was registered back in 2007, just as technical note, there is an export function that makes migration easier. However, from tidbits I have picked up, I think Eric works in the IT field and may host the website on a server cluster he has access to or owns. he wouldn't have to actually move all the data, just point the new domain name to the old database and software.

The other side (collarspace) is having a few bugs, lots of missing pictures and few CMS display bugs. Stuff that needs to be fine tuned with all the new zones in place.

Based on details I've picked up over the years I've long thought that the owner was somehow in the computer business but not a programmer. The site was initially coded by an amateur and many later upgrades were done in very haphazard ways that no working pro would do to a site that made the kind of money for him that CM makes.

I think the missing pics problem is, for instance, some stuff has a hardcoded path to a picture directory instead of a relative path.

(in reply to ResidentSadist)

RE: CollarMe has gone - 5/24/2014 6:24:13 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DokktorSatan
You're not much of a 'legal analyzer' if you're claiming Eric is legally obligated to make some sort of public statement.

Of course he is not. In fact in my first and last posts I made it clear that he can claim not only the domain (and he would get it in a matter of a few days with a proper attorney) but also compensation from her (he might not get it as she has no money for it). She has lost this and put herself in the worst position possible. She needs an attorny. Not on monday, today. She is in deep shit here and Eric can do whatever he wants with her now.

He is however responsible in a moral way towards us, the users, to show that he is dealing with this in a way that does not destroy someone that is already at the bottom.

Of course legally he is not. But you and me and anyone else is also not responsible to bring high value visitors to the site site that the avertisers are ready to pay for. When the traffic comes more and more from scammers, the adertisers will drop their support as there might still be high visit numbers, but there will be less advertising clicks that turn into money.

So actually, Eric is obligated towards himself and his business to deal with it in a way that shows he can be and deserves to be the show runner. Maybe he does not need it or does not care, who knows.

And if it is a hoax? Well, then should clarify that.

< Message edited by legalANALyizer -- 5/24/2014 6:36:59 AM >

(in reply to DokktorSatan)

RE: CollarMe has gone - 5/24/2014 6:36:21 AM

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LegalANALyzer:

I think we're actually saying the same thing: just different approaches. You're right about my 'domain name' ownership comment: I was trying to keep the point as simple to comprehend as possible. I work in this industry and I see this kind of thing all the time (yes, with risk, compliance and legalities). If you read my entire post, and I'm sure you did, I agree with you that there's a moral responsibility here - but not a slam dunk legal one. Tiffany has very, very, very little leverage in this affair, as it stands. No amount of hurled insults Eric's way is going to affect that.

DomKen:

You are likely right regarding Eric's background. I only know of him because of what's happened the past few days. You're also probably dead on about the technical issues: those are back end glitches as a result of the transfer (keeping it simple).

(in reply to legalANALyizer)

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