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The Erosion of Progress by Religions - 5/30/2014 5:01:13 PM   
GotSteel


Posts: 5871
Joined: 2/19/2008
Status: offline 		Here's a presentation by Neil Degrasse Tyson, about 10 min long. Maybe some food for thought.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oxTMUTOz0w
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: The Erosion of Progress by Religions - 5/30/2014 5:35:10 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

Here's a presentation by Neil Degrasse Tyson, about 10 min long. Maybe some food for thought.

In this excellent video, Tyson shows us that under Islam, between 800-1000 AD, we had spectacular advances in engineering, biology, medicine, and mathematics; the list of stars with Arabic names goes on and on; our number system today uses Arabic numerals; books were translated on a scale not seen since; algebra and celestial navigation were created; all of this during Islam's peak between 800 - 1000 AD.

And from this he makes a case for "the erosion of progress by religions".

Good, very good. Thanks. Yeah, maybe food for thought there.

K.



(in reply to GotSteel)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: The Erosion of Progress by Religions - 5/31/2014 9:18:45 AM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

Here's a presentation by Neil Degrasse Tyson, about 10 min long. Maybe some food for thought.

In this excellent video, Tyson shows us that under Islam, between 800-1000 AD, we had spectacular advances in engineering, biology, medicine, and mathematics; the list of stars with Arabic names goes on and on; our number system today uses Arabic numerals; books were translated on a scale not seen since; algebra and celestial navigation were created; all of this during Islam's peak between 800 - 1000 AD.

And from this he makes a case for "the erosion of progress by religions".

Good, very good. Thanks. Yeah, maybe food for thought there.

K.

You did not view the entire video or you are being disingenuously selective in your report. Dr. Tyson goes on to say the entire Islamic enterprise in science collapsed in the 12th Century following the influence of al Ghazali who proclaimed that mathematics was the work of the devil.

In 21st Century America his concern is that "our way of thinking of the natural world has changed. Revelation has replaced investigation." At the end of the clip Neil Tyson points out that our future economy depends on today's science. As an aside he points out that of over a billion Muslims only two have ever won the Nobel Prize for sciences while out of tops fifteen million, Jews have won one fourth of the Nobels. The difference a religion can make is profound.

Tyson is obviously concerned about the impact of the literalist bible thumpers who deny evidence in science that does not comport with the words of the Bible.

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: The Erosion of Progress by Religions - 5/31/2014 9:41:15 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

Here's a presentation by Neil Degrasse Tyson, about 10 min long. Maybe some food for thought.

In this excellent video, Tyson shows us that under Islam, between 800-1000 AD, we had spectacular advances in engineering, biology, medicine, and mathematics; the list of stars with Arabic names goes on and on; our number system today uses Arabic numerals; books were translated on a scale not seen since; algebra and celestial navigation were created; all of this during Islam's peak between 800 - 1000 AD.

And from this he makes a case for "the erosion of progress by religions".

Good, very good. Thanks. Yeah, maybe food for thought there.

K.

You did not view the entire video or you are being disingenuously selective in your report. Dr. Tyson goes on to say the entire Islamic enterprise in science collapsed in the 12th Century following the influence of al Ghazali who proclaimed that mathematics was the work of the devil.

In 21st Century America his concern is that "our way of thinking of the natural world has changed. Revelation has replaced investigation." At the end of the clip Neil Tyson points out that our future economy depends on today's science. As an aside he points out that of over a billion Muslims only two have ever won the Nobel Prize for sciences while out of tops fifteen million, Jews have won one fourth of the Nobels. The difference a religion can make is profound.

Tyson is obviously concerned about the impact of the literalist bible thumpers who deny evidence in science that does not comport with the words of the Bible.

Kirata is not a big fan of reality. He believes prayer can make ice pretty and other silly nonsense.

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: The Erosion of Progress by Religions - 5/31/2014 9:47:54 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

At the end of the clip Neil Tyson points out that our future economy depends on today's science. As an aside he points out that of over a billion Muslims only two have ever won the Nobel Prize for sciences while out of tops fifteen million, Jews have won one fourth of the Nobels. The difference a religion can make is profound.


This statement has me a little confused. Is he suggesting that the muslims have not won any prizes because they are religious and the Jews have because they aren't?


quote:


Tyson is obviously concerned about the impact of the literalist bible thumpers who deny evidence in science that does not comport with the words of the Bible.


Unless they are somehow stopping other scientists from discovering new things it really doesn't matter if they agree with them or not. But if you think it's worth losing sleep over, go right ahead.

_____________________________

"Sweetie, you're wasting your gum" .. Albert


This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi


(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: The Erosion of Progress by Religions - 5/31/2014 9:49:21 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

Here's a presentation by Neil Degrasse Tyson, about 10 min long. Maybe some food for thought.

In this excellent video, Tyson shows us that under Islam, between 800-1000 AD, we had spectacular advances in engineering, biology, medicine, and mathematics; the list of stars with Arabic names goes on and on; our number system today uses Arabic numerals; books were translated on a scale not seen since; algebra and celestial navigation were created; all of this during Islam's peak between 800 - 1000 AD.

And from this he makes a case for "the erosion of progress by religions".

Good, very good. Thanks. Yeah, maybe food for thought there.

K.

You did not view the entire video or you are being disingenuously selective in your report. Dr. Tyson goes on to say the entire Islamic enterprise in science collapsed in the 12th Century following the influence of al Ghazali who proclaimed that mathematics was the work of the devil.

In 21st Century America his concern is that "our way of thinking of the natural world has changed. Revelation has replaced investigation." At the end of the clip Neil Tyson points out that our future economy depends on today's science. As an aside he points out that of over a billion Muslims only two have ever won the Nobel Prize for sciences while out of tops fifteen million, Jews have won one fourth of the Nobels. The difference a religion can make is profound.

Tyson is obviously concerned about the impact of the literalist bible thumpers who deny evidence in science that does not comport with the words of the Bible.

Kirata is not a big fan of reality. He believes prayer can make ice pretty and other silly nonsense.



This I have to see....link please

_____________________________

"Sweetie, you're wasting your gum" .. Albert


This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi


(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: The Erosion of Progress by Religions - 5/31/2014 10:43:33 AM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

You did not view the entire video or you are being disingenuously selective in your report. Dr. Tyson goes on to say the entire Islamic enterprise in science collapsed in the 12th Century following the influence of al Ghazali who proclaimed that mathematics was the work of the devil.

Oh, I see. So Islam wasn't a religion before then. Got it now.

K.


(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: The Erosion of Progress by Religions - 5/31/2014 10:50:21 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

Here's a presentation by Neil Degrasse Tyson, about 10 min long. Maybe some food for thought.

In this excellent video, Tyson shows us that under Islam, between 800-1000 AD, we had spectacular advances in engineering, biology, medicine, and mathematics; the list of stars with Arabic names goes on and on; our number system today uses Arabic numerals; books were translated on a scale not seen since; algebra and celestial navigation were created; all of this during Islam's peak between 800 - 1000 AD.

And from this he makes a case for "the erosion of progress by religions".

Good, very good. Thanks. Yeah, maybe food for thought there.

K.

You did not view the entire video or you are being disingenuously selective in your report. Dr. Tyson goes on to say the entire Islamic enterprise in science collapsed in the 12th Century following the influence of al Ghazali who proclaimed that mathematics was the work of the devil.

In 21st Century America his concern is that "our way of thinking of the natural world has changed. Revelation has replaced investigation." At the end of the clip Neil Tyson points out that our future economy depends on today's science. As an aside he points out that of over a billion Muslims only two have ever won the Nobel Prize for sciences while out of tops fifteen million, Jews have won one fourth of the Nobels. The difference a religion can make is profound.

Tyson is obviously concerned about the impact of the literalist bible thumpers who deny evidence in science that does not comport with the words of the Bible.

Kirata is not a big fan of reality. He believes prayer can make ice pretty and other silly nonsense.



This I have to see....link please

http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=3670408

(in reply to thishereboi)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: The Erosion of Progress by Religions - 5/31/2014 11:00:31 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

You did not view the entire video or you are being disingenuously selective in your report. Dr. Tyson goes on to say the entire Islamic enterprise in science collapsed in the 12th Century following the influence of al Ghazali who proclaimed that mathematics was the work of the devil.

Oh, I see. So Islam wasn't a religion before then. Got it now.

Before al Ghazali it did not discourage learning, at least in Baghdad. As Tyson points out between 800 and 1100 CE in Baghdad was one of the great periods of academic achievement in man's history. Most of the visible stars were named and algebraic math was developed amongst other achievements.

Then al Ghazali came along and he declared that education, and specifically mathematics, was the work of the devil. At which point the Islamic world turned in upon itself and has functionally stagnated.

Consider this Muslims make up over 1 billion of the planets 6 or so billion people but there is no prominent Muslim research university anywhere.

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: The Erosion of Progress by Religions - 5/31/2014 11:31:56 AM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

You did not view the entire video or you are being disingenuously selective in your report. Dr. Tyson goes on to say the entire Islamic enterprise in science collapsed in the 12th Century following the influence of al Ghazali who proclaimed that mathematics was the work of the devil.

Oh, I see. So Islam wasn't a religion before then. Got it now.

Before al Ghazali it did not discourage learning

Rather obviously, then, the problem isn't religion per se.

K.


(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: The Erosion of Progress by Religions - 5/31/2014 11:37:06 AM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Kirata is not a big fan of reality. He believes prayer can make ice pretty and other silly nonsense.

This I have to see....link please

http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=3670408

Funny how someone can be so proud of the shit he makes up that he even likes to throw a spotlight on it.

Fun reading, that thread. Too bad I didn't have the shovel graphic back then.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 5/31/2014 11:56:10 AM >

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: The Erosion of Progress by Religions - 5/31/2014 12:03:52 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

Fun reading, that thread. Too bad I didn't have the shovel graphic back then.

Too bad you don't learn from your mistakes.

Do you or do you not believe prayer makes ice pretty?

< Message edited by DomKen -- 5/31/2014 12:07:31 PM >

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: The Erosion of Progress by Religions - 5/31/2014 1:06:30 PM   
BitYakin


Posts: 882
Joined: 10/15/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

Fun reading, that thread. Too bad I didn't have the shovel graphic back then.

Too bad you don't learn from your mistakes.

Do you or do you not believe prayer makes ice pretty?


I read the link to the post, and the following conversation...

it looked to me like it was posted as a devils advocate type post to me, funny how certain people here, assume because one takes the other side of a discussion purely for the purpose of discussion, its proof they BELEIVE IN IT

not much of a DEBATE or discussion when everyone just nods their head and says "yeahh UNHUH that's right"
would make this a PRETTY BORING FORUM HUH?

its really SAD that some people have to take what should be just plain old OPEN DEBATE and turn it into some kinda NAME CALLING THING

can't count the number of times that's been done to me here, I actually just LIKE TO ARGUE, it occasionally lets me see things differently...

here's another SAD thing, so many here have an AGENDA to push, and somehow think they'll win converts by calling them STUPID AN SUCH

if one makes a logical and solid argument it should stand for itself and need no NAME CALLING to accompany it

< Message edited by BitYakin -- 5/31/2014 1:15:37 PM >

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: The Erosion of Progress by Religions - 5/31/2014 1:12:20 PM   
BitYakin


Posts: 882
Joined: 10/15/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

You did not view the entire video or you are being disingenuously selective in your report. Dr. Tyson goes on to say the entire Islamic enterprise in science collapsed in the 12th Century following the influence of al Ghazali who proclaimed that mathematics was the work of the devil.

Oh, I see. So Islam wasn't a religion before then. Got it now.

Before al Ghazali it did not discourage learning

Rather obviously, then, the problem isn't religion per se.

K.





you make a good point. its not the religion that's bad it was some individual that took over said religion that caused the problem, if this was about Islam and terrorism the argument would be, BUT THOSE are the radical MINORITY of Islamics

funny how when people want to bash religion they use the minority as the rule for a religion, but when they want to defend ISLAM they use the its only a MINORITY ARGUMENT

you people CRACK ME UP!

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: The Erosion of Progress by Religions - 5/31/2014 1:22:01 PM   
GotSteel


Posts: 5871
Joined: 2/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
You did not view the entire video or you are being disingenuously selective in your report.


You know which one it was. Just look at how much he's managed to derail the thread with a bit of trolling. Come on guys, STOP FEEDING K!

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: The Erosion of Progress by Religions - 5/31/2014 1:48:22 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel
quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

You did not view the entire video or you are being disingenuously selective in your report.

You know which one it was. Just look at how much he's managed to derail the thread with a bit of trolling.

Yeah, that must be it.

K.


(in reply to GotSteel)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: The Erosion of Progress by Religions - 5/31/2014 2:36:14 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

Fun reading, that thread. Too bad I didn't have the shovel graphic back then.

Too bad you don't learn from your mistakes.

Do you or do you not believe prayer makes ice pretty?


I read the link to the post, and the following conversation...

it looked to me like it was posted as a devils advocate type post to me, funny how certain people here, assume because one takes the other side of a discussion purely for the purpose of discussion, its proof they BELEIVE IN IT

not much of a DEBATE or discussion when everyone just nods their head and says "yeahh UNHUH that's right"
would make this a PRETTY BORING FORUM HUH?

its really SAD that some people have to take what should be just plain old OPEN DEBATE and turn it into some kinda NAME CALLING THING

can't count the number of times that's been done to me here, I actually just LIKE TO ARGUE, it occasionally lets me see things differently...

here's another SAD thing, so many here have an AGENDA to push, and somehow think they'll win converts by calling them STUPID AN SUCH

if one makes a logical and solid argument it should stand for itself and need no NAME CALLING to accompany it

Too bad you can't make a cogent argument. Please for the love of pete try to develop at least a little bit of a brain. You're a fucking embarrassment to the whole species.

BTW as you've been told before caps does not improve your argument at all.

(in reply to BitYakin)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: The Erosion of Progress by Religions - 5/31/2014 3:41:26 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		I guess the fact that it was the Catholic church that imported science from the Muslims and adopted the greek centered philosophies and scientific process.

Please remember, in the time of Columbus people did not think the earth was flat, they knew it was round, since Greek proved that at the Library of Alexandria.

Okay, the church pushed the earth centric model instead of the helio centric model, in difference to the Asian model in which the earth was on the backs of two elephants on a turtle crossing an endless sea or variations of that.

And yes the church punished whats his name for proving the earth orbited the sun.

However in the last 200 years, the main religions have supported scientific advancements, there are even Catholic priests that are physicists at CERN, priests are involved with SETI as well as other fields.

So I dont agree with the idea that the whole of religion is eroding scientific progress, I think you would find that more true with the "scientists" that say dinosaur fossils prove the planet is 6000 years old, the grand canyon is the result of the biblical flood, and we are the only intelligent life in the Universe because the bible does not mention any other.

Look I was thrust in this mortal realm in 1961 BCE and I know there are other intelligent critters in the universe (FYI, the reason no other intelligent races have contacted us can clearly be laid at the feet of the members of One Direction and Justin Bieber.)

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: The Erosion of Progress by Religions - 5/31/2014 3:54:48 PM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

You did not view the entire video or you are being disingenuously selective in your report. Dr. Tyson goes on to say the entire Islamic enterprise in science collapsed in the 12th Century following the influence of al Ghazali who proclaimed that mathematics was the work of the devil.

Oh, I see. So Islam wasn't a religion before then. Got it now.

K.



You are making shit up. Christianity was a religion before the Reformation so obviously orthodoxy changes or branches. The scientific enterprise of Bagdad was influenced negatively by al Ghazali. Only Kirata could twist Tyson's words so idiotically.

< Message edited by vincentML -- 5/31/2014 3:59:29 PM >

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: The Erosion of Progress by Religions - 5/31/2014 4:02:29 PM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline
quote:

So I dont agree with the idea that the whole of religion is eroding scientific progress,


If you would view the video you would find that no such claim is made. Tyson is referring to biblical fundamentalists.

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 20
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