RE: How should the USA Fund its highway system?

RE: How should the USA Fund its highway system? (Full Version)

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blacksword404 -> RE: How should the USA Fund its highway system? (7/22/2014 9:01:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: blacksword404 quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: blacksword404 It makes no difference how it's funded. Funding isn't the problem. Them raiding the cookie jar is. Until that's done, it doesn't matter how much money ou give them. Not sure if that's true or not. If you have proof that Federal Highway Trust funds aren't used for road repair, maintenance, and expansion, show it. http://airwolf.lmtonline.com/news/archive/031205/pagea8.pdf Why is highway money being used on mass transit, bike path and horse trails instead of the roads that vehicles use? http://www.coburn.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?a=Files.Serve&File_id=b7b23f66-2d60-4d5a-8bc5-8522c7e1a40e Look at the first part. That's my point. If it's not under the authority of the Federal government, why should we be spending that money? If we're spending Federal dollars on non-Federal transportation projects, we don't need to increase Federal gas taxes. The sad fact is that we do need to increase funding for transportation infrastructure. But, we need to increase the funding for the government level that is the authority for that infrastructure. If it's State-run, we need to raise State taxes. If it's a locally tended parcel, then local funding needs to be improved. I don't think I, as an Ohioan, should contribute to the funding of State or local transportation projects in areas other than where I live. The thing needs to be properly overseen. No more using highway money to plant flowers along the highway. It looks pretty and all but it cost money that needs to go towards roads. Raising the tax rate might help. But only if the money goes where it's supposed to.

Sanity -> RE: How should the USA Fund its highway system? (7/22/2014 9:22:10 PM)
I watched a nearby freeway on-ramp intersection get torn up and rebuilt three times in six years recently. Multimillion dollar projects, and all kinds of pain for motorists. They repaved the road in front of my house this summer, raised it up by another foot, making everyones driveway steeper, which can be a real bitch in winter, though there was nothing wrong with the road and there are plans to tear it our and rebuild it and widen it as a new freeway alternate route in 2015 Why? Federal dollars that have to be spent so that they get that funding next year, I am sure. And the big fat government cronys need their big fat government paychecks. Bridges to nowhere, pet airport projects for key Senators, the pork goes on and on Thats just how government works.

ThirdWheelWanted -> RE: How should the USA Fund its highway system? (7/22/2014 9:44:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Why? Federal dollars that have to be spent so that they get that funding next year, I am sure. And the big fat government cronys need their big fat government paychecks. Bridges to nowhere, pet airport projects for key Senators, the pork goes on and on Thats just how government works. I saw an example of this recently, although it was with a rental property not a road. My Grandmother was renting a house from NY. Someone showed up one day and asked if there was anything she needed fixed. She mentioned one or two things, he went through and came up with a huge list of improvements. They ripped out her basement steps and replaced them with steel ones. They replaced her furnace and oil-tank. They replaced most of the plumbing and the roof. It cost thousands, and his explanation was that the department had money they needed to use so they didn't lose it in next years budget. The worst part, when she died a year or so later, they boarded the place up and it's been vacant ever since.

Musicmystery -> RE: How should the USA Fund its highway system? (7/23/2014 9:27:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MrRodgers quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery quote: ORIGINAL: eulero83 quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy The upshot is that Republicans in Congress don't want to raise taxes to pay for the highways. So, without tax revenue, how do you fund the highway system? sexy car wash on the highways verges Plus, that would create jobs . . . [image]http://ftop.ru/large/201212/43274.jpg[/image] .....but then we get traffic jams and wasted gas and just more fender-benders. I see this costing more although surely...my kinda carwash. Not at all. You have to pay to get in line for a car wash.

Sanity -> RE: How should the USA Fund its highway system? (7/23/2014 11:02:18 AM)
Everybody pays every time they buy fuel

mnottertail -> RE: How should the USA Fund its highway system? (7/23/2014 11:55:48 AM)
Well, at least you retained that from the article.

Gauge -> RE: How should the USA Fund its highway system? (7/23/2014 11:59:34 AM)
I just breezed through the thread so I apologize if I repeat something already said. One of the things I may have missed is no one has actually addressed the original question as to how would we raise the funds to repair or roadways. First of all, if the fund had been managed properly, this discussion would not have to happen. Many factors have contributed to the situation we are now in, but this is definitely not a new problem and certainly not just a failing of the current administration but rather a failing of several. Raising the gas tax is not going to work. Think about it, people are driving less, are beginning to purchase more fuel efficient cars, and as more technology comes available more fuel efficient cars and even cars that will not use gasoline are going to eventually take over. Not in our lifetime, but connecting this fund to the gas tax creates more problems in the long-term and only really addresses short-term goals. Additionally, what motivation does the government have to reduce our dependance on fossil fuels if they rely on gasoline for money? The money will not just magically appear from nowhere, so how to fund this and other things and not place the burden simply on the people? Take the IRS tax laws and throw them out the fucking window, they are useless anyway. Simplify the tax code. Create a flat rate tax based on a percentage of income, exemptions would only apply to people under a certain income level, disabled, etc. Stop subsidizing corporations and make them share our tax burden. Close the loopholes so that off-shore banking is less beneficial than keeping the money here. Start a flat rate transaction tax where a small percentage of every dollar spent is a federal tax, like a penny or two per transaction. Stop the defense spending waste, if there is any place our money is just being burned, it is defense spending. The Pentagon is a lumbering black hole that is consistently wasting taxpayers money and even they don't know where half the money is being spent. No one has had the guts to make the Pentagon submit to an audit like they are required to do... so, something is very wrong there. Of course I am dreaming, and it will never happen, so don't bother telling me that it won't happen because I already know.

mnottertail -> RE: How should the USA Fund its highway system? (7/23/2014 12:04:46 PM)
Hell, one thing could be done easily is put a $1 or even $2 tax on a box of salt. Among some of the other things you have said.

Gauge -> RE: How should the USA Fund its highway system? (7/23/2014 12:09:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail Hell, one thing could be done easily is put a $1 or even $2 tax on a box of salt. Among some of the other things you have said. I would rather tax blowjobs.

mnottertail -> RE: How should the USA Fund its highway system? (7/23/2014 12:14:34 PM)
Well, then you would face the same declining revenue, since I ain't getting them anywhere near what I am talking about them. Not much revenue to be raised in that area.

Gauge -> RE: How should the USA Fund its highway system? (7/23/2014 12:26:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail Well, then you would face the same declining revenue, since I ain't getting them anywhere near what I am talking about them. Not much revenue to be raised in that area. Then discussion of blowjobs would be the better tax? Done.

cloudboy -> RE: How should the USA Fund its highway system? (7/23/2014 12:55:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SubtleMentor The irony of the situation that the typical American desire to get something for nothing (roads in this case) is destroying the thing they want most. Another example of this is energy infrastructure. America's coal and nuclear fleet are hopelessly out of date and need to be replaced. Ever since Reagan promised America everything is cheap and easy the country has abandoned investment and gone on a spending spree. Now we have a broken highway system, a broken energy infrastructure a bloated useless military, massive foreign debt from imported oil, rotten cities and a bunch of crybabies whining "But I don't WANT to pay for anything!" The latest feel good myth is fracking: Sorry guys, the fun will be over in five years. I agree with you 5000%. Another example was cutting taxes while conducting two wars -- controlling the information about those wars, and distancing Americans from the costs and results therefrom. The cross-breeding of chickenhawks with Grover-Norquistiites -- resulting in a ruined foreign policy and domestic economy. Many Americans are block voting for more of the same.

cloudboy -> RE: How should the USA Fund its highway system? (7/23/2014 12:58:55 PM)
Raising the gas tax is a simpler, more straightforward solution. None of what you describe is possible with the Tea Party in Congress -- because even raising the Gas tax looks impossible. I appreciate the thoughts. Please run for Congress and unseat a tea-party idiot in the process.

kinksterparty -> RE: How should the USA Fund its highway system? (7/23/2014 1:10:30 PM)
Well, if people stop freaking out over nuclear - which, with only 2 serious accidents during the millions of runtime-hours accumulated by 1000's of reactors, has a miniscule impact on health & environment, compared to the less news-worthy but far more damaging ongoing pollution from coal and oil - maybe, just maybe, we could have a viable energy solution. The worst disaster, Chernobyl (Pripyat, actually), was caused by a military reactor that was originally built to breed weapons-grade uranium. It was NEVER designed to be a power-generating solution, and was only put into place because the USSR wanted to show off how technologically advanced they were. There are no active commercial reactors of that type anywhere in the world, so a "Pripyat repeat" is not possible. With the exception of major structural damage (like Fukushima), modern reactors would "spin down" and shut off, rather than "run away" like the Chernobyl one. Fukushima is a different story. Can't fault the reactor design, but ask yourself this: "who the HELL builds a nuclear power station in an area vulnerable not only to tectonic instability but also tsunamis?". If it was 30 miles further inland, the consequences wouldn't be anywhere near as severe as they are now. Still... TWO, coun'em, TWO, major failures. Compared to the millions of tons of CO2 and other pollutants emitted by the fossil-fuel power plants.

kinksterparty -> RE: How should the USA Fund its highway system? (7/23/2014 1:11:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy Raising the gas tax is a simpler, more straightforward solution. None of what you describe is possible with the Tea Party in Congress -- because even raising the Gas tax looks impossible. I appreciate the thoughts. Please run for Congress and unseat a tea-party idiot in the process. Raising taxes isn't a "simple" solution. That money has to come out of somewhere. It's only simple if you look at 1 column in a ledger and ignore the others.

Gauge -> RE: How should the USA Fund its highway system? (7/23/2014 2:02:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kinksterparty Well, if people stop freaking out over nuclear - which, with only 2 serious accidents during the millions of runtime-hours accumulated by 1000's of reactors, has a miniscule impact on health & environment, compared to the less news-worthy but far more damaging ongoing pollution from coal and oil - maybe, just maybe, we could have a viable energy solution. The worst disaster, Chernobyl (Pripyat, actually), was caused by a military reactor that was originally built to breed weapons-grade uranium. It was NEVER designed to be a power-generating solution, and was only put into place because the USSR wanted to show off how technologically advanced they were. There are no active commercial reactors of that type anywhere in the world, so a "Pripyat repeat" is not possible. With the exception of major structural damage (like Fukushima), modern reactors would "spin down" and shut off, rather than "run away" like the Chernobyl one. Fukushima is a different story. Can't fault the reactor design, but ask yourself this: "who the HELL builds a nuclear power station in an area vulnerable not only to tectonic instability but also tsunamis?". If it was 30 miles further inland, the consequences wouldn't be anywhere near as severe as they are now. Still... TWO, coun'em, TWO, major failures. Compared to the millions of tons of CO2 and other pollutants emitted by the fossil-fuel power plants. Why freak over nuclear? Well the potential downside and risks outweigh the ultimate benefit. When you have a solar energy spill it is simply called a beautiful day.

DesideriScuri -> RE: How should the USA Fund its highway system? (7/23/2014 3:28:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Gauge I just breezed through the thread so I apologize if I repeat something already said. One of the things I may have missed is no one has actually addressed the original question as to how would we raise the funds to repair or roadways. First of all, if the fund had been managed properly, this discussion would not have to happen. Many factors have contributed to the situation we are now in, but this is definitely not a new problem and certainly not just a failing of the current administration but rather a failing of several. Raising the gas tax is not going to work. Think about it, people are driving less, are beginning to purchase more fuel efficient cars, and as more technology comes available more fuel efficient cars and even cars that will not use gasoline are going to eventually take over. Not in our lifetime, but connecting this fund to the gas tax creates more problems in the long-term and only really addresses short-term goals. Additionally, what motivation does the government have to reduce our dependance on fossil fuels if they rely on gasoline for money? The money will not just magically appear from nowhere, so how to fund this and other things and not place the burden simply on the people? Take the IRS tax laws and throw them out the fucking window, they are useless anyway. Simplify the tax code. Create a flat rate tax based on a percentage of income, exemptions would only apply to people under a certain income level, disabled, etc. Stop subsidizing corporations and make them share our tax burden. Close the loopholes so that off-shore banking is less beneficial than keeping the money here. Start a flat rate transaction tax where a small percentage of every dollar spent is a federal tax, like a penny or two per transaction. Stop the defense spending waste, if there is any place our money is just being burned, it is defense spending. The Pentagon is a lumbering black hole that is consistently wasting taxpayers money and even they don't know where half the money is being spent. No one has had the guts to make the Pentagon submit to an audit like they are required to do... so, something is very wrong there. Of course I am dreaming, and it will never happen, so don't bother telling me that it won't happen because I already know. I thought the whole idea of a flat income tax was regressive and was punitive on those in the middle and lower classes? Same with a Federal sales tax. Before you blow up, let me say, I agree with you. I've stated support for closing ALL loopholes in the tax code. Don't dink and dunk with loopholes that they think only effect "the rich." Close 'em all. That's fair, isn't it?

DesideriScuri -> RE: How should the USA Fund its highway system? (7/23/2014 3:29:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy Raising the gas tax is a simpler, more straightforward solution. None of what you describe is possible with the Tea Party in Congress -- because even raising the Gas tax looks impossible. I appreciate the thoughts. Please run for Congress and unseat a tea-party idiot in the process. Simpler, yet less effective.

sloguy02246 -> RE: How should the USA Fund its highway system? (7/23/2014 6:11:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kinksterparty Chernobyl Fukushima Still... TWO, coun'em, TWO, major failures. Compared to the millions of tons of CO2 and other pollutants emitted by the fossil-fuel power plants. You forgot Three Mile Island in Pennsylvania in the 1970's.

Gauge -> RE: How should the USA Fund its highway system? (7/23/2014 9:28:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri I thought the whole idea of a flat income tax was regressive and was punitive on those in the middle and lower classes? Same with a Federal sales tax. Before you blow up, let me say, I agree with you. I've stated support for closing ALL loopholes in the tax code. Don't dink and dunk with loopholes that they think only effect "the rich." Close 'em all. That's fair, isn't it? A flat income tax is fair, isn't it? We pay a percentage, each according to income, it distributes the burden equally, no? I would never blow up at someone who agrees or disagrees with me, I am not that shallow. I can disagree amicably and even see another point of view. I feel that if more people could do that, politics would be a little easier of a process to get things done.

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