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RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/13/2014 4:54:57 AM

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quote:

Riots are not like weather.

OK, bad analogy on my part. Humans have little or no control over the weather. They do, however, have markedly more control over the way their societies work. To me, a riot is a sign that something basic in a society is clearly *not* working. There are proposed solutions that cluster around broadly left wing or right wing themes (there always are) - but to get into some debate about righteousness, or otherwise, of the behaviour of the rioters, seems to me an utter waste of time. I do sometimes wonder if it's possible that people have so little a sense of society that they just can't think in those terms.

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RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/13/2014 5:42:18 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

Whichever way it goes, I'm curious what people think of the assertion that looting and burning is the proper response.

Of course not. But isn't that like asking, 'Was it the proper response for the dog to bite if it had been poked with a stick?' Riots just do happen, like bad weather happens. That's how people just are on occasion.

It's a tricky one, ain't it? Look at the question from the individual standpoint, and it's one answer, then from the broader perspective and it might be another.

I'll get back around to this when I can, but here is something I'm wondering about. Would Michael Brown's death have been at the top of the Google news page (until Robin Williams took over) if they Quik-E-Mart hadn't burned?

Possibly. The incident was reported in the national press before there was any actual riot. However, based on past incidents, the media may have been anticipating a riot. But there was a brief window after the incident but before any rioting took place where people were just wanting answers (yet weren't getting any). If the police were stonewalling or dragging their feet in the investigation, then that leads to impatience, which can lead to anger, which can lead to rioting.

I find it interesting, at least in comparison to Robin Williams, the local authorities were far more forthcoming with information and gave a press conference within a timely manner. In less than 24 hours after the initial announcement of his death, the world learned at least the basic pertinent facts about what happened and how he died. Not that there would have been any riots or anything, but the authorities recognized the necessity of getting the facts and reporting those facts in a timely manner.

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RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/13/2014 7:03:29 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

Riots are not like weather.

OK, bad analogy on my part. Humans have little or no control over the weather. They do, however, have markedly more control over the way their societies work. To me, a riot is a sign that something basic in a society is clearly *not* working. There are proposed solutions that cluster around broadly left wing or right wing themes (there always are) - but to get into some debate about righteousness, or otherwise, of the behaviour of the rioters, seems to me an utter waste of time. I do sometimes wonder if it's possible that people have so little a sense of society that they just can't think in those terms.

To me a riot is a sign that something basic inside the mind of the rioter is not working and they seem to think that looting and burning is an answer to anything. Now you and cloudboy can keep blaming society for this but until you actually put the blame on the ones who are actually doing the violence you are more a part of the problem than a solution to it.

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RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/13/2014 7:12:13 AM

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quote:

To me a riot is a sign that something basic inside the mind of the rioter is not working and they seem to think that looting and burning is an answer to anything. Now you and cloudboy can keep blaming society for this but until you actually put the blame on the ones who are actually doing the violence you are more a part of the problem than a solution to it.

Is it really that difficult for you, THB? Once again, for me, the 'blame' or 'excuse' game is irrelevant *in its entirety*, because I think it's pointless. That applies to your side of the argument but what you wrongly consider to be my side, too. Seriously, what do you expect could be achieved by it?

< Message edited by PeonForHer -- 8/13/2014 7:13:47 AM >

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RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/13/2014 7:19:32 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

To me a riot is a sign that something basic inside the mind of the rioter is not working and they seem to think that looting and burning is an answer to anything. Now you and cloudboy can keep blaming society for this but until you actually put the blame on the ones who are actually doing the violence you are more a part of the problem than a solution to it.

Is it really that difficult for you, THB? Once again, for me, the 'blame' or 'excuse' game is irrelevant *in its entirety*, because I think it's pointless. That applies to your side of the argument but what you wrongly consider to be my side, too. Seriously, what do you expect could be achieved by it?

Achieved by what? If you mean rioting, nothing is achieved except more violence. If you mean trying to find out why people are so violent, it would be to try and stop it. If you mean pointing out that the boy has his head in the clouds and needs to stop defending violence and come back to the real world, probably nothing but sometimes it's fun to poke him.

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RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/13/2014 7:27:36 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

To me a riot is a sign that something basic inside the mind of the rioter is not working and they seem to think that looting and burning is an answer to anything. Now you and cloudboy can keep blaming society for this but until you actually put the blame on the ones who are actually doing the violence you are more a part of the problem than a solution to it.

Is it really that difficult for you, THB? Once again, for me, the 'blame' or 'excuse' game is irrelevant *in its entirety*, because I think it's pointless. That applies to your side of the argument but what you wrongly consider to be my side, too. Seriously, what do you expect could be achieved by it?

Achieved by what? If you mean rioting, nothing is achieved except more violence. If you mean trying to find out why people are so violent, it would be to try and stop it. If you mean pointing out that the boy has his head in the clouds and needs to stop defending violence and come back to the real world, probably nothing but sometimes it's fun to poke him.

No, I meant, what do think will be achieved by the great 'blame' argument. Supposing you were to 'win' and everybody on this board - everybody in the country - were to be convinced that the rioters themselves were to be blamed for lacking in moral fibre (or however you want to put it). Do you think that they, or others in the future, would take the blindest bit of notice? It's idealistic nonsense.

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RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/13/2014 8:07:31 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

To me a riot is a sign that something basic inside the mind of the rioter is not working and they seem to think that looting and burning is an answer to anything. Now you and cloudboy can keep blaming society for this but until you actually put the blame on the ones who are actually doing the violence you are more a part of the problem than a solution to it.

Is it really that difficult for you, THB? Once again, for me, the 'blame' or 'excuse' game is irrelevant *in its entirety*, because I think it's pointless. That applies to your side of the argument but what you wrongly consider to be my side, too. Seriously, what do you expect could be achieved by it?

Achieved by what? If you mean rioting, nothing is achieved except more violence. If you mean trying to find out why people are so violent, it would be to try and stop it. If you mean pointing out that the boy has his head in the clouds and needs to stop defending violence and come back to the real world, probably nothing but sometimes it's fun to poke him.

No, I meant, what do think will be achieved by the great 'blame' argument. Supposing you were to 'win' and everybody on this board - everybody in the country - were to be convinced that the rioters themselves were to be blamed for lacking in moral fibre (or however you want to put it). Do you think that they, or others in the future, would take the blindest bit of notice? It's idealistic nonsense.

This is a discussion on the internet. You are not going to "win" anything here. I said it was stupid to try and excuse the rioters. You seem to think it's not only ok but that I am trying to win something by pointing out that it's not. Talk about nonsense.

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RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/13/2014 9:09:08 AM

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ORIGINAL: subrosaDom

They're nihilists, whether by intention or action. To understand them, you must understand that their only purpose is to destroy. They are the opposite of creators. Destruction is their goal. There is nothing superior that they want to rise, it is all about reducing that which has been created to rubble.

Your understanding of nihilism is as limited as your knowledge of history. How does the slogan "no justice no peace,know justice know peace" equate with nihilism?

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RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/13/2014 9:14:26 AM

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ORIGINAL: kdsub

I gave examples in my first post with no complaining from the white community even though they were more victims than the blacks in this case.

How does that compare to the totality of black/white relations in our country?

Where is the outrage...where is the call to Al Sharpton and Eric Holder when every damn day a black is murdering another black on the streets of St Louis?

Perhaps they do not see it as racsist as you seem to.

Blacks today need to look at themselves before looking to white people for the reasons of their nightmares.

Almighty whity telling po black folks what they need to do to get his boot off of their neck

They are no longer victims but share the responsibilities of their problems with each other and the police.

Roflmfao

They need to stop blaming everyone and everything for their own failed responsibilities to teach their children how to be responsible men and women that contribute to society rather then look for reasons to tear it down.

I got an easy fix for you pogue. Get a copy of "black like me" follow the directions and see how much you like being black...until then all you have is uneducated ignorant opinion which has been shown historically to be less than productive.

< Message edited by thompsonx -- 8/13/2014 9:21:32 AM >

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RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/13/2014 9:16:19 AM

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ORIGINAL: subrosaDom

1) Rioting against innocent people is wrong. Period.

I have yet to hear you condemn the founding fathers for their predation on "innocent people"

2) We don't have the details on what actually happened. I think the police do plenty of crappy things, although I think prosecutorial abuse is actually worse. There are also plenty of heinous criminals. It is possible the police officer was entirely at fault, it's possible he was defending himself or it's possible the evidence is not absolutely clear. So let's see what the evidence is.

I am good with that.

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RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/13/2014 9:17:50 AM

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ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

I admit I have never understood this kind of mentality.

Perhaps that is because you do not wish to.

I remember the riots in the 60's and trying to understand why they were burning their own neighborhoods when they weren't the ones they were mad at.

They were burning down businesses owned by white people not their own homes you moron.

It just didn't make any sense and never solved anything.

South central today is a far cry from what it was in the 60's it is better but it aint good.

I also think a lot of people who were involved did it because they saw a good excuse to get some free shit while claiming the high moral ground.

Not at all unlike the boston tea party or similar acts by revolutionaries/terrorists

The ones I feel sorry for are their neighbors who have to live with this kind of bullshit.

Well of course you do

No you moron, they were burning down businesses owned by their black neighbors. The rest of your drivel isn't worth the time to answer.

How about a link moron.
The "drivel" you cannot answer is because you have your head so far up your ass you cannot see where you are going.

< Message edited by thompsonx -- 8/13/2014 9:20:34 AM >

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RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/13/2014 9:19:56 AM

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ORIGINAL: TheHeretic.

As for Cloudboy, that vile shitbag

When it comes to vile shitbags you have a pretty unchallanged lead.

wouldn't get a reply from me if he was asking for directions out of a burning building.

You may not make the cut for humanitairan of the year award with postings like that.

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RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/13/2014 9:35:19 AM

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ORIGINAL: thishereboi

To me a riot is a sign that something basic inside the mind of the rioter is not working and they seem to think that looting and burning is an answer to anything.

As long as you view the rioters as criminals with no issue but self agrandisement you will continue to be at a loss for an explanation.
Should you take the stick out of your ass and consider that these people may have letitimate issues that need to be addressed then and only then will you begin to get a clue.

Now you and cloudboy can keep blaming society for this but until you actually put the blame on the ones who are actually doing the violence you are more a part of the problem than a solution to it.

That would be your ignorant unsubstantiated opinion. Should you ever avail yourself of a history book written for someone with a three digit iq you could easily disabuse yourself of your self imposed ignorance.

Achieved by what? If you mean rioting, nothing is achieved except more violence.

Had you ever used the pages of a history book for something besides shit paper you might have noticed some rather significant riots that caused major changes in society. Perhaps you never heard of the french revolution, the american revolution, the bolshivik revolution, the cuban revolutio. All of these were riots that sorta got out of hand and whole new countries were created.
Perhaps it is time you got a phoquing clue?

If you mean trying to find out why people are so violent, it would be to try and stop it. If you mean pointing out that the boy has his head in the clouds and needs to stop defending violence and come back to the real world, probably nothing but sometimes it's fun to poke him.

Yet your country has been violent since it's inception. Tell me the longest period of peace the u.s. has experienced since 1776? Since you clearly do not have a text book I will give you the answer...zero not one phoquing second.

This is a discussion on the internet. You are not going to "win" anything here. I said it was stupid to try and excuse the rioters.

Yet your country is the result of rioters. How two faced can you get?

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RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/13/2014 10:14:29 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
This is a discussion on the internet. You are not going to "win" anything here. I said it was stupid to try and excuse the rioters. You seem to think it's not only ok but that I am trying to win something by pointing out that it's not. Talk about nonsense.

No, for fuck's sake, for the umpteenth time, I am not "excusing" the rioters. I am not "excusing" the cops or anyone else, either. It only "seems" like that to you because you cannot wrench yourself away from the blame-argument.

< Message edited by PeonForHer -- 8/13/2014 10:17:25 AM >

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RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/13/2014 11:01:31 AM

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FR

I just saw that another police shooting occurred there.

quote:

A woman was also shot in the head and wounded during the area'a sporadic street demonstrations overnight, Ferguson Police Chief Tom Jackson told the Los Angeles Times.

The officer-involved shooting, which occurred at 1 a.m. CDT, occurred near the intersection of West Florissant Avenue and Chambers Road, close to the site of protests against police in the shooting of Michael Brown, said Officer Brian Schellman, spokesman for the St. Louis County Police Department.

St. Louis police received a call that four people wearing ski masks and armed with shotguns were in the area and at the same time several calls were made to police about shots fired in the area, according to a statement from police.

“When officers arrived, multiple subjects began running from the scene. One officer encountered a subject who brandished a handgun, pointing it directly at the officer. Fearing for his safety and the safety of others in the area, the officer fired shots, striking the subject.” the police statement said. “The subject was transported to a local hospital, where as of this writing, he is listed in critical condition. The subject’s handgun was recovered by police at the scene.”

...

In the incident involving the woman, local media reported that she was shot in the head during a drive-by shooting near the Ferguson QuikTrip gas station that had been looted and burned over the weekend and which has become a gathering point for demonstrators this week.

She was conscious after being shot and called 911 herself, Jackson said. He was not able to provide further details, saying that he hadn't been briefed yet. Police were reportedly seeking four to five men.

Racial tensions have simmered since the Saturday shooting of Brown. Ferguson is a working-class suburb of 21,000, where two-thirds of residents are black but police and city officials are predominantly white.

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RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/13/2014 11:08:41 AM

Gauge

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This is a fast reply.

I think the comparison to the media and police response to the death of Robin Williams and to this particular incident are in error.

In the case of Robin Williams, it was fairly clear what happened, and while tragic, there wasn't much to investigate.

In the case of Michael Brown, there is possible criminal activity, potential for a "hate crime" charge, and other ramifications from the shooting. I think getting the answers right instead of fast is essential. We see all too often what happens when news channels report things without first verifying the information in the name of being first, not accurate. The police have to get this right and accurate, and that takes time. It would be terrible for them to report something from their investigation only to have to correct the error later. That only stokes the conspiracy theorists because it makes the appearance of a cover up.

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RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/13/2014 11:21:55 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
Yet your country is the result of rioters. How two faced can you get?

Do you have any validation for your ignorant unsubstantiated opinion ?
Had you ever used the pages of a history book for something besides shit paper you might not think the American revolution started out as a riot. Perhaps it is time you got a phoquing clue?

< Message edited by lovmuffin -- 8/13/2014 11:22:56 AM >

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RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/13/2014 12:17:15 PM

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I get what you mean -- namely that riots are a part of humanity and civil society -- part of the human make-up when emotions boil over, anger needs an outlet, and civil institutions are lacking. The great white fear in America is "that those black people are out of control." In the 60s in led to a massive white flight from the cities. George Bush I ran the famous Willie Horton political ad to scare white voters away from Dukakis in the Presidental race of 88 -- and the ad was very effective. Such political tactics, though, mean the GOP forfeits the black vote. (Before that was Nixon's "Southern Strategy.")

Right now the GOP is forfeiting the hispanic, gay, and black vote while not exactly welcoming women either. They're on the wrong side of history.... in full knowledge of this they are passing VOTER ID laws and Gerrymandering the shit out of Congressional Districts.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 8/13/2014 12:18:38 PM >

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RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/13/2014 12:19:26 PM

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The one eye witness account of the shooting is pretty fucking chilling.

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RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/13/2014 12:52:52 PM

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ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
Yet your country is the result of rioters. How two faced can you get?

Do you have any validation for your ignorant unsubstantiated opinion ?

I think even you may have heard of the boston tea party. Remember where the rioters disguised themselves as native americans and destroyed the private property of others.

(in reply to lovmuffin)

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