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RE: Racism and Islamophobia. - 9/14/2014 12:22:57 AM   
FieryOpal


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[Brackets mine]
quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

Its also on record in the Hebrew Scriptures and the New Testament.

[A] (circa 185-254 CE) to write: "Therefore the blood of Jesus came not only upon those who lived formerly but also upon all subsequent generations of Jews..." The Christian church taught until recently that all Jews -- past, present and future -- are equally responsible for the death of Christ. 2

[B] (Psalms 79:6): "Pour out thy wrath upon the heathen that have not known thee, and upon the kingdoms that have not called upon thy name." This is a call to God to commit genocide against persons of other faiths who are either unfamiliar with Judaism and Christianity, or who have learned and rejected these religions.

[C] (Exodus 22:20): "He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the LORD only, he shall be utterly destroyed."

And so it goes on.

[A] Yes, it is a travesty that there are those in Christian leadership throughout history who have blamed the Jewish people for the crucifixion of Christ and persecuted them.
The earliest Christians WERE Jews. Virtually all of the disciples and contemporaneous followers of Jesus were themselves Jews. Gentiles were not actively welcomed into Christianity until St. Peter received his vision of them being grafted into the fig tree by (spiritual) adoption. (Acts 10, Romans 11)*
The historical record as recounted is an explanation for how this came about. Stating an event is not the same as inciting it. Roman governor or prefect of Judaea, Pontius Pilate symbolically washed his hands of Jesus' blood. He had given the crowd a choice between which condemned prisoner to let go as the Passover "scapegoat," as was their tradition. Those in the crowd then shouted, "His blood is on us and on our children!" because they could not be swayed to show Jesus mercy. (Matthew 27:25)
On the Cross, Jesus forgave EVERYBODY, prayed for God the Father to forgive them [all], for they know not what they do. This meant not just the Romans, not just the centurions, or the Pharisees and the Sadducees, but all the Jews, and anybody in the future who would despise Christ--they were also pre-forgiven so that they might receive salvation.
* We are all on even ground in accordance to Galatians 3:28--There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

[B] The Psalms are a collection of prayers and hymns sung to the Lord God. Many have been attributed to the authorship of Moses and of David, Warrior King of Israel. This is one such passage praying for victory over one's enemies, not a strange request or entreaty to make of one's Deity.

[C] Exodus 32:8--They have been quick to turn away from what I [Moses] commanded them and have made themselves an idol cast in the shape of a calf. They have bowed down to it and sacrificed to it and have said, 'These are your gods, Israel, who brought you up out of Egypt.'

For those Hebrews delivered out of the bondage of slavery from Egypt, this was the ultimate betrayal, to fashion a golden calf (of Goddess Hathor) to worship in the Egyptian fashion, instead of showing their gratitude and devotion to their own Hebrew Lord God, who did not have an idolatrous form to worship. This was their dire warning not to revert back to the ways of their Egyptian slavery, or to bring upon that accursed state by forsaking the God of Moses who had delivered them.
When Moses descended from Mt. Sinai, he had two stone tablets with the 10 Commandments carved upon them. These were later stored in the sacred Ark of the Covenant.

_____________________________

Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage. - Lao Tzu
There is no remedy for love but to love more. - Thoreau

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RE: Racism and Islamophobia. - 9/14/2014 1:40:25 AM   
freedomdwarf1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Fuck knows where you get your info from FreedomDwarf, because it is skewed beyond belief. You and I both know there is only one reason your cousin cant take her "Story" to the press, and that is that as a serving police officer whe signed the Official Secrets act.


Well shit dude why did you not tell me that signing some peice of paper exempted someone from being an ethical human being.
Didn't she also take an oath to uphold and defend the law? Which one of those takes presidence?





Good point thompson.

She is stuck with the same dilema that your Edward Snowden had.
On the one hand, she is supposed to uphold the law.
On the other hand, to do so would mean disobeying a superior officer.

Do you think Snowden was a traitor or a hero??


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RE: Racism and Islamophobia. - 9/14/2014 3:42:57 AM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Fuck knows where you get your info from FreedomDwarf, because it is skewed beyond belief. You and I both know there is only one reason your cousin cant take her "Story" to the press, and that is that as a serving police officer whe signed the Official Secrets act.


Well shit dude why did you not tell me that signing some peice of paper exempted someone from being an ethical human being.
Didn't she also take an oath to uphold and defend the law? Which one of those takes presidence?




An odd question Thompson. The offical Secrets Act is there for a purpose and doesnt contradict upholding and defending the law. The press do a decent job of pointing out wrongdoing by policeforces and other Government agencies. The main point is that Sharia law doesnt usurp British Law and for FD to suggest otherwise is nonsense.

(in reply to thompsonx)
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RE: Racism and Islamophobia. - 9/14/2014 4:59:49 AM   
freedomdwarf1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Fuck knows where you get your info from FreedomDwarf, because it is skewed beyond belief. You and I both know there is only one reason your cousin cant take her "Story" to the press, and that is that as a serving police officer whe signed the Official Secrets act.


Well shit dude why did you not tell me that signing some peice of paper exempted someone from being an ethical human being.
Didn't she also take an oath to uphold and defend the law? Which one of those takes presidence?




An odd question Thompson. The offical Secrets Act is there for a purpose and doesnt contradict upholding and defending the law. The press do a decent job of pointing out wrongdoing by policeforces and other Government agencies. The main point is that Sharia law doesnt usurp British Law and for FD to suggest otherwise is nonsense.


Really PS, you must be living in some sort of Utopian bubble.

quote:

ORIGINAL: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/10717575/Sharia-law-in-UK-calls-for-Parliamentary-inquiry.html
...Calls for a Parliamentary inquiry into the scale of Islamic law in the UK are mounting after the body representing solicitors in England and Wales issued formal guidance on making “Sharia compliant” wills.


And this e-petition managed to get over 21,000 signatures:
quote:

ORIGINAL: http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/48352
...This is to stop all 85 sharia courts that are open and to stop anymore from opening.
People residing in this country should obey by British law. No other law should ever be used in this country not now and not ever.


quote:

ORIGINAL: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2587215/Sharia-Law-enshrined-British-legal-lawyers-guidelines-drawing-documents-according-Islamic-rules.html
Sharia law to be enshrined in British legal system as lawyers get guidelines on drawing up documents according to Islamic rules


quote:

ORIGINAL: http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/03/23/sharia-law-enshrined-in-uk-legal-system_n_5016396.html
Islamic law will be effectively enshrined in UK law for the first time.


quote:

ORIGINAL: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22044724
BBC Panorama has uncovered fresh evidence of how some Sharia councils in Britain may be putting Muslim women "at risk" by pressuring them to stay in abusive marriages


quote:

ORIGINAL: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16522447
The use of Sharia, or Islamic religious law, is growing in Britain, with thousands of Muslims using it to settle disputes each year, but women's groups and some others are objecting.


We all know that Sharia doctrines and practices are diametrically opposed to just about anything and everything that British law and EU equal rights gives everyone in our society.
So why is it that there exists at least 85 known Sharia courts in the UK??
And a panorama program has proved that a lot of Muslims go to these courts and abide by their rulings than any British court - even when those rulings are actually illegal under British law?
Even the Muslims around here get their 'justice' from the local Sharia Court rather than seek proper British justice.

And yes, everyone states that Sharia law does not usurp British law - in theory.
But that is no more truthful than saying nobody ever speeds because the speed limit signs are clearly displayed.


_____________________________

If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.
George Orwell, 1903-1950


(in reply to Politesub53)
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RE: Racism and Islamophobia. - 9/14/2014 5:17:03 AM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

And a panorama program has proved that a lot of Muslims go to these courts and abide by their rulings than any British court - even when those rulings are actually illegal under British law?


Which Panorama programme was this, FD? I'll give it a viewing.

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(in reply to freedomdwarf1)
Profile   Post #: 425
RE: Racism and Islamophobia. - 9/14/2014 6:46:25 AM   
freedomdwarf1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

And a panorama program has proved that a lot of Muslims go to these courts and abide by their rulings than any British court - even when those rulings are actually illegal under British law?


Which Panorama programme was this, FD? I'll give it a viewing.

It was one of the links in the BBC report I linked to.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01rxfjt

Edit: I just tried to follow the links - it's not on the iPlayer and similar stuff isn't there any more.
Seems like it's run its course and no longer available.

But I found some of them and related bits on YT -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUisdYh9NQk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rI4W1kgBx2A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2020aUwnYI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQ3PIhFHDdE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmZbCyH_HFk


< Message edited by freedomdwarf1 -- 9/14/2014 7:06:08 AM >


_____________________________

If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.
George Orwell, 1903-1950


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Profile   Post #: 426
RE: Racism and Islamophobia. - 9/14/2014 7:51:03 AM   
Zonie63


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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Fuck knows where you get your info from FreedomDwarf, because it is skewed beyond belief. You and I both know there is only one reason your cousin cant take her "Story" to the press, and that is that as a serving police officer whe signed the Official Secrets act.


Well shit dude why did you not tell me that signing some peice of paper exempted someone from being an ethical human being.
Didn't she also take an oath to uphold and defend the law? Which one of those takes presidence?





Good point thompson.

She is stuck with the same dilema that your Edward Snowden had.
On the one hand, she is supposed to uphold the law.
On the other hand, to do so would mean disobeying a superior officer.

Do you think Snowden was a traitor or a hero??


Still, wouldn't she have the right to go up further in the chain of command? Even if she couldn't go to the press, wouldn't there be some other agency she could have gone to in order to report dereliction of duty on the part of her superior officer(s)?

I'm not sure if the Snowden case is comparable, although I think a lot of people criticized him for leaving the country more than any actual whistleblowing he did.

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)
Profile   Post #: 427
RE: Racism and Islamophobia. - 9/14/2014 8:00:01 AM   
freedomdwarf1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63
Still, wouldn't she have the right to go up further in the chain of command? Even if she couldn't go to the press, wouldn't there be some other agency she could have gone to in order to report dereliction of duty on the part of her superior officer(s)?

I'm not sure if the Snowden case is comparable, although I think a lot of people criticized him for leaving the country more than any actual whistleblowing he did.

She tried that and got the same result.

It's comparable to the Snowden case because she caught between her sworn duty and those orders from her superiors.

She has decided to take a week's leave and we are going to discuss it as a family.
I know her hubby thinks she should speak out and be damned with the consequences.
Not sure what her sister thinks 'cuz I haven't spoken to her for the last couple of months.
My take is that she should get together with those in the social services who have also been told to 'bury it' and go the legal 'whistle-blower' route as a group.

PS thinks it's all skewed... well, yes it is. I can't help how real life turns out can I??


_____________________________

If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.
George Orwell, 1903-1950


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Profile   Post #: 428
RE: Racism and Islamophobia. - 9/14/2014 9:33:24 AM   
Zonie63


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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63
Still, wouldn't she have the right to go up further in the chain of command? Even if she couldn't go to the press, wouldn't there be some other agency she could have gone to in order to report dereliction of duty on the part of her superior officer(s)?

I'm not sure if the Snowden case is comparable, although I think a lot of people criticized him for leaving the country more than any actual whistleblowing he did.

She tried that and got the same result.

It's comparable to the Snowden case because she caught between her sworn duty and those orders from her superiors.

She has decided to take a week's leave and we are going to discuss it as a family.
I know her hubby thinks she should speak out and be damned with the consequences.
Not sure what her sister thinks 'cuz I haven't spoken to her for the last couple of months.
My take is that she should get together with those in the social services who have also been told to 'bury it' and go the legal 'whistle-blower' route as a group.

PS thinks it's all skewed... well, yes it is. I can't help how real life turns out can I??


Are there are any laws to protect whistleblowers from retaliation, so that she might be able to keep her job? Is there any way she can get an attorney and get professional legal advice as to what her rights and responsibilities are here? PS mentioned something about an "official secrets act," but would something like that really apply in a case like this?




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RE: Racism and Islamophobia. - 9/14/2014 4:13:04 PM   
Politesub53


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Freedomdwarf....... You are talking bollocks.

Certain aspects of Sharia law can be dealt with if both parties agree. The Jewish community also has something similar and I forget the name. Your original post stated Sharia Law allowed the beatings to stand, thats bullshit.

Look at the case in your first you tube link and then read the following.

But Dr Hasan told the undercover reporter: "The police that is the very, very last resort. If he becomes so aggressive, starts hitting you, punching you of course you have to report it to the police, that is not allowed."

Note it is about the very same case and then maybe you will start to get a clue. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22044724

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RE: Racism and Islamophobia. - 9/14/2014 4:20:04 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63

Are there are any laws to protect whistleblowers from retaliation, so that she might be able to keep her job? Is there any way she can get an attorney and get professional legal advice as to what her rights and responsibilities are here? PS mentioned something about an "official secrets act," but would something like that really apply in a case like this?



Yes Zonie, no one who has signed the Official Secrets Act can divulge any information about the work they do. People who havent signed the act are mostly protected.

https://www.gov.uk/whistleblowing/dismissals-and-whistleblowing

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RE: Racism and Islamophobia. - 9/14/2014 4:29:58 PM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: thishereboi

Yea, I agree that was a pretty shitty thing to say. But the guy said it almost 2000 years ago so I am not sure how it is relevant today.

The words jesus spoke 2000 years ago are no longer valid because of your age restriction on validity???who knew



All of the churches I have gone to have followed the new testament, not the old. That is looked at more as a history lesson. Personally I prefer it that way, other's mileage may vary.

You join a possie that has a rule book but you figgure only the rules you like are the ones you will follow.

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RE: Racism and Islamophobia. - 9/14/2014 4:36:32 PM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
Good point thompson.

She is stuck with the same dilema that your Edward Snowden had.
On the one hand, she is supposed to uphold the law.
On the other hand, to do so would mean disobeying a superior officer.

There are proceedures to deal with criminal superiors. It is called the chain of command. If your boss tells you to shut up tell him you want to see his boss. He is not allowed to tell you no. And so it goes all the way to the top cop and then to the police commisioner...eventually parliment or the pm.

Do you think Snowden was a traitor or a hero??

Solid gold hero.



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RE: Racism and Islamophobia. - 9/14/2014 4:43:13 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

But Dr Hasan told the undercover reporter: "The police that is the very, very last resort. If he becomes so aggressive, starts hitting you, punching you of course you have to report it to the police, that is not allowed."


Yep, I caught that one. There wasn't anything that suggested that Sharia law trumps national law. This was about codes of conduct, institutionalised as 'Sharia courts'. We get versions of this all over the country and in all kinds of settings. Jeez, I even witnessed something like it when I was in the Boy Scouts.

Unless I've missed a bit, Freedomdwarf? Is there something worth worrying about here - something that you could point to with factual, weblinked examples?



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RE: Racism and Islamophobia. - 9/14/2014 4:47:55 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
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quote:


All of the churches I have gone to have followed the new testament, not the old. That is looked at more as a history lesson. Personally I prefer it that way, other's mileage may vary.

You join a possie that has a rule book but you figgure only the rules you like are the ones you will follow.


I'm not well up enough on the Bible - the New Testament is free of all the anti-homosexual stuff, is it? That was all Old Testament nonsense, presumably? I have a feeling that thishereboi wouldn't subscribe to such stuff - call it 'male intuition', if you like.

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Profile   Post #: 435
RE: Racism and Islamophobia. - 9/14/2014 4:49:26 PM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: Politesub53

An odd question Thompson. The offical Secrets Act is there for a purpose and doesnt contradict upholding and defending the law.

My point was that she is charged with upholding the law and her superior told her not to do her job. She now has cause to speak to his suprerior, and his superior all the way to the pm.



The press do a decent job of pointing out wrongdoing by policeforces and other Government agencies. The main point is that Sharia law doesnt usurp British Law and for FD to suggest otherwise is nonsense.

What is this lady copper bitching about if the brit law is being followed then what those with an imaginary friend do is hardly relevant unless it breaks brit law. If the shira court imposes a fine is that a crime against any brit law? If the shira court imposes stoning or lashes I would bet real money that is against brit law.

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RE: Racism and Islamophobia. - 9/14/2014 4:50:44 PM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: Zonie63

I'm not sure if the Snowden case is comparable, although I think a lot of people criticized him for leaving the country more than any actual whistleblowing he did.


How did that work out for bradly manning?


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RE: Racism and Islamophobia. - 9/14/2014 4:54:25 PM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Yes Zonie, no one who has signed the Official Secrets Act can divulge any information about the work they do.

Then she has already broken the osa by telling her family of this.
This is a crock of shit about the osa. We have a similar law here. It is designed to protect "official secrets" not punk cops who wont do their jobs. What the lady copper is discribing is hardly an official secret. If she can testify in a court of law about something she did in her job then isnt that breaking the osa?






< Message edited by thompsonx -- 9/14/2014 5:09:29 PM >

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RE: Racism and Islamophobia. - 9/15/2014 2:15:51 AM   
FieryOpal


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

Yea, I agree that was a pretty shitty thing to say. But the guy said it almost 2000 years ago so I am not sure how it is relevant today.

The words jesus spoke 2000 years ago are no longer valid because of your age restriction on validity???who knew

She never said these were the words that Jesus spoke. What He says verbatim is usually red-lettered in most Bibles. These words are not. This is what witnesses have recorded what the mob was chanting after Jesus had received his 39 lashes and was mocked with a crown of thorns.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

All of the churches I have gone to have followed the new testament, not the old. That is looked at more as a history lesson. Personally I prefer it that way, other's mileage may vary.

You join a possie that has a rule book but you figgure only the rules you like are the ones you will follow.

I believe she and I may belong to the same basic Protestant posse, which broke away from the Catholic Church to follow its own set of rules OVER 500 YEARS AGO. Are you, on the other hand, part of Rumpelstiltskin's posse?

Protestants are encouraged to read the Scriptures for themselves rather than to allow clergy to interpret all doctrine for them without making one's own discernments (through the power of the Holy Spirit, which in unspiritual persons operates only on the level of conscience, if that much); that Christ is our High Priest, and we are to call no [ordained] man "father," who is not our actual relative; because as children of God, we have but ONE FATHER, Who Art in Heaven, which means that by accepting Jesus Christ as the Son of God and as Our Savior, we can then share in His birthright.

_____________________________

Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage. - Lao Tzu
There is no remedy for love but to love more. - Thoreau

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Profile   Post #: 439
RE: Racism and Islamophobia. - 9/15/2014 5:34:27 AM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: FieryOpal


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

Yea, I agree that was a pretty shitty thing to say. But the guy said it almost 2000 years ago so I am not sure how it is relevant today.

The words jesus spoke 2000 years ago are no longer valid because of your age restriction on validity???who knew

She never said these were the words that Jesus spoke. What He says verbatim is usually red-lettered in most Bibles. These words are not. This is what witnesses have recorded what the mob was chanting after Jesus had received his 39 lashes and was mocked with a crown of thorns.

She said
"the guy said it almost 2000 years ago so I am not sure how it is relevant today."
I said jesus spoke 2000 years ago is that no longer relevant? I never sugested that the two were the same words only that if one guy opinion is invallid after 2000 years then that would apply equally to all 2000 year old utterances, which clearly it does not. My point was to poiint out this inconsistancy in her logic.

(in reply to FieryOpal)
Profile   Post #: 440
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