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RE: Racism and Islamophobia. - 9/15/2014 6:01:41 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63

Are there are any laws to protect whistleblowers from retaliation, so that she might be able to keep her job? Is there any way she can get an attorney and get professional legal advice as to what her rights and responsibilities are here? PS mentioned something about an "official secrets act," but would something like that really apply in a case like this?

Yes Zonie, no one who has signed the Official Secrets Act can divulge any information about the work they do. People who havent signed the act are mostly protected.

https://www.gov.uk/whistleblowing/dismissals-and-whistleblowing

I did a bit of reading up on this, and it's compared to the US Espionage Act. But that mainly had to do with national security, foreign intelligence, and that sort of thing. How can it legally be used to cover up rape, child abuse, etc., when it has nothing to do with espionage or military security or anything remotely related to what is covered under the Act?

(in reply to Politesub53)

RE: Racism and Islamophobia. - 9/15/2014 7:00:08 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

Yea, I agree that was a pretty shitty thing to say. But the guy said it almost 2000 years ago so I am not sure how it is relevant today.

The words jesus spoke 2000 years ago are no longer valid because of your age restriction on validity???who knew

She never said these were the words that Jesus spoke. What He says verbatim is usually red-lettered in most Bibles. These words are not. This is what witnesses have recorded what the mob was chanting after Jesus had received his 39 lashes and was mocked with a crown of thorns.

She said
" the guy said it almost 2000 years ago so I am not sure how it is relevant today."
I said jesus spoke 2000 years ago is that no longer relevant? I never sugested that the two were the same words only that if "one guy opinion is invallid after 2000 years then that would apply equally to all 2000 year old utterances, which clearly it does not. My point was to poiint out this inconsistancy in her logic.

What I pointed out to you is that what was written by the guy=person or persons who recorded the events (as there is more than one eyewitness account) in the Gospels of Jesus' arrest by the Pharisees, being brought before Pontius Pilate, His public scourging, His presentation before the Judaean crowd there in Jerusalem (which during the Passover *tourist season* was a mixed crowd), etc. is a statement later written in Greek to explain why non-Messianic Jewish people were blamed for Jesus' death and later persecuted for it. Please examine the statement. It does not call or rally for the persecution of non-Messianic Jews, and it is not giving a justification to seek vengeance. Jesus forgave his enemies on the Cross. In the Greek, Christ's cry from the cross, "It is finished!" is an accounting term, meaning that the debt had been paid in full.

Without getting into all of the esoteric ramifications of the Messianic prophecies which were fulfilled by Christ's crucifixion, burial in a rich man's tomb, and His Resurrection (whether you personally believe this part of the Gospels or not), it was not for any so-called Christian convert to take it upon himself to exact revenge from a forgiven peoples, numbered among whom were the early Messianic Jewish Christians themselves.

As for your rebuttal, which was not based on logic, you stated: "The words jesus spoke 2000 years ago" -- These were NOT the words that Jesus spoke himself. thishereboi was pondering whether the relevancy of this account had any bearing in present day. It didn't then as a call to action, it never did, and it never should have been a justification for any Christian to harbor enmity towards the Jews. The fact that the Teutonic-loving Nazis, and Catholic-raised Hitler (who once aspired to the priesthood before volunteering for the Germany Army in WWI) had USED and perverted this historical event as recorded scripturally for his/their own personal agenda - or that those belonging to the Inquisition had committed acts of atrocities against the Jews - is NOT a reflection of Christianity the religion--or as a philosophy, however secularists may view it. thompson, given that you have a bent toward historiography and studying historical events, there is no need for me to expound upon this further.

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(in reply to thompsonx)

RE: Racism and Islamophobia. - 9/15/2014 10:14:48 AM

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From: Sydney Australia
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Those concerned with the Muslim community's alleged reticence to condemn IS might be heartened by this denunciation of IS by Australian Imans:
"Australian Imams say there's nothing Islamic about the murderous actions by the militant group Islamic State.

The phrase "Islamic State" refers to an era when Muslims, Christians and Jews lived together harmoniously, the Australian National Imams Council (ANIC) said.

But the militants had misappropriated the terminology for their own political and violent goals.

"Since the ISIS group was established we have been very clear about denouncing their lies and betrayal of our faith," said the Grand Mufti of Australia, Ibrahim Abu Mohammad, in a statement on Monday.

"These criminals are committing crimes against humanity and sins against God. Forced eviction, threats of execution and burning of places of worship including churches have no place in any faith."
http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/nothing-islamic-about-is-grand-mufti-20140915-3fpl5.html

And yesterday's "Australian" paper reported that information volunteered by members of the Australian Muslim community has enabled authorities to prevent the departure of dozens of would-be jihadis from Australia to the Middle East. No exact numbers were given but the report stated that had these would be jihadis been allowed to depart they would have doubled the numbers of Australian Muslims fighting for IS, widely reported to be c60 in total.

It is certainly incorrect to claim that Muslims here are lax in either denouncing IS or in assisting authorities in their efforts against IS.

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RE: Racism and Islamophobia. - 9/15/2014 11:29:30 AM

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ORIGINAL: FieryOpal

What I pointed out to you is that what was written by the guy=person or persons who recorded the events (as there is more than one eyewitness account) in the Gospels of Jesus' arrest by the Pharisees, being brought before Pontius Pilate, His public scourging, His presentation before the Judaean crowd there in Jerusalem (which during the Passover *tourist season* was a mixed crowd), etc. is a statement later written in Greek to explain why non-Messianic Jewish people were blamed for Jesus' death and later persecuted for it. Please examine the statement. It does not call or rally for the persecution of non-Messianic Jews, and it is not giving a justification to seek vengeance. Jesus forgave his enemies on the Cross. In the Greek, Christ's cry from the cross, "It is finished!" is an accounting term, meaning that the debt had been paid in full.

Without getting into all of the esoteric ramifications of the Messianic prophecies which were fulfilled by Christ's crucifixion, burial in a rich man's tomb, and His Resurrection (whether you personally believe this part of the Gospels or not), it was not for any so-called Christian convert to take it upon himself to exact revenge from a forgiven peoples, numbered among whom were the early Messianic Jewish Christians themselves.

As for your rebuttal, which was not based on logic, you stated: "The words jesus spoke 2000 years ago" -- These were NOT the words that Jesus spoke himself. thishereboi was pondering whether the relevancy of this account had any bearing in present day. It didn't then as a call to action, it never did, and it never should have been a justification for any Christian to harbor enmity towards the Jews. The fact that the Teutonic-loving Nazis, and Catholic-raised Hitler (who once aspired to the priesthood before volunteering for the Germany Army in WWI) had USED and perverted this historical event as recorded scripturally for his/their own personal agenda - or that those belonging to the Inquisition had committed acts of atrocities against the Jews - is NOT a reflection of Christianity the religion--or as a philosophy, however secularists may view it. thompson, given that you have a bent toward historiography and studying historical events, there is no need for me to expound upon this further.

My only point was that if 2000 years makes a statement invalid for one guy then it would stand to reason that it applies to all statements that are 2000 years old, which clearly it does not.
The pissing contest between religions is hardly worth my notice. I do not care if one possie blames the other possie for the death of their bff.

(in reply to FieryOpal)

RE: Racism and Islamophobia. - 9/15/2014 11:45:19 AM

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Joined: 9/27/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Those concerned with the Muslim community's alleged reticence to condemn IS might be heartened by this denunciation of IS by Australian Imans:

Same is happening here, Tweak. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28270296

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RE: Racism and Islamophobia. - 9/15/2014 3:52:07 PM

Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63

Are there are any laws to protect whistleblowers from retaliation, so that she might be able to keep her job? Is there any way she can get an attorney and get professional legal advice as to what her rights and responsibilities are here? PS mentioned something about an "official secrets act," but would something like that really apply in a case like this?

Yes Zonie, no one who has signed the Official Secrets Act can divulge any information about the work they do. People who havent signed the act are mostly protected.

https://www.gov.uk/whistleblowing/dismissals-and-whistleblowing

I did a bit of reading up on this, and it's compared to the US Espionage Act. But that mainly had to do with national security, foreign intelligence, and that sort of thing. How can it legally be used to cover up rape, child abuse, etc., when it has nothing to do with espionage or military security or anything remotely related to what is covered under the Act?

Who said it can be legally used to cover up rape ? If any police officers have hidden a crime thats been reported to them, they have committed a criminal act. As with many things, the police try and stretch the legal perameters of UK Law. That doesnt make it legal and that doesnt make it right.

(in reply to Zonie63)

RE: Racism and Islamophobia. - 9/15/2014 7:44:15 PM

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Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline

Save yourself some key strokes, he really isn't worth the time.

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This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi

(in reply to FieryOpal)

RE: Racism and Islamophobia. - 9/15/2014 7:48:06 PM

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Joined: 6/19/2008
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For some reason (lack of reading ability) T thought I was talking about Jesus when I said "Yea, I agree that was a pretty shitty thing to say. But the guy said it almost 2000 years ago so I am not sure how it is relevant today. "

He was wrong but that's not a real surprise now is it?

_____________________________

"Sweetie, you're wasting your gum" .. Albert

This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi

(in reply to FieryOpal)

RE: Racism and Islamophobia. - 9/16/2014 5:40:06 AM

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Joined: 10/1/2006
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ORIGINAL: thishereboi

For some reason (lack of reading ability) T thought I was talking about Jesus

If you could read at the third grade level you would not have made that mistake. It is quite clear to the most casual observer that I knew who you were speaking of and I made the comparison to jesus. Perhaps if you were to get a grown up to read it for you it might help.

(in reply to thishereboi)

RE: Racism and Islamophobia. - 9/16/2014 6:34:46 AM

Posts: 2826
Joined: 4/25/2011
From: The Old Pueblo
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63

Are there are any laws to protect whistleblowers from retaliation, so that she might be able to keep her job? Is there any way she can get an attorney and get professional legal advice as to what her rights and responsibilities are here? PS mentioned something about an "official secrets act," but would something like that really apply in a case like this?

Yes Zonie, no one who has signed the Official Secrets Act can divulge any information about the work they do. People who havent signed the act are mostly protected.

https://www.gov.uk/whistleblowing/dismissals-and-whistleblowing

I did a bit of reading up on this, and it's compared to the US Espionage Act. But that mainly had to do with national security, foreign intelligence, and that sort of thing. How can it legally be used to cover up rape, child abuse, etc., when it has nothing to do with espionage or military security or anything remotely related to what is covered under the Act?

Who said it can be legally used to cover up rape ? If any police officers have hidden a crime thats been reported to them, they have committed a criminal act. As with many things, the police try and stretch the legal perameters of UK Law. That doesnt make it legal and that doesnt make it right.

Isn't that the crime we're talking about here? If they're bound to follow the official secrets act, and this presents a conflict such as what FD is saying in regards to his cousin, then where does the law actually stand on this?

(in reply to Politesub53)

RE: Racism and Islamophobia. - 9/16/2014 3:09:49 PM

Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Who said it can be legally used to cover up rape ? If any police officers have hidden a crime thats been reported to them, they have committed a criminal act. As with many things, the police try and stretch the legal perameters of UK Law. That doesnt make it legal and that doesnt make it right.

Isn't that the crime we're talking about here? If they're bound to follow the official secrets act, and this presents a conflict such as what FD is saying in regards to his cousin, then where does the law actually stand on this?

I just told you, but I will repeat myself. If a police officer covers up a crime they have broken the law (Misconduct in a public office for starters). The official Secrets Act cannot legally be used to cover up a crime. I dont understand why you dont get it.

(in reply to Zonie63)

RE: Racism and Islamophobia. - 9/16/2014 8:06:45 PM

Posts: 2826
Joined: 4/25/2011
From: The Old Pueblo
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Who said it can be legally used to cover up rape ? If any police officers have hidden a crime thats been reported to them, they have committed a criminal act. As with many things, the police try and stretch the legal perameters of UK Law. That doesnt make it legal and that doesnt make it right.

Isn't that the crime we're talking about here? If they're bound to follow the official secrets act, and this presents a conflict such as what FD is saying in regards to his cousin, then where does the law actually stand on this?

I just told you, but I will repeat myself. If a police officer covers up a crime they have broken the law (Misconduct in a public office for starters). The official Secrets Act cannot legally be used to cover up a crime. I dont understand why you dont get it.

You mentioned to FD upthread that she was forbidden to take her story to the press because she signed the official secrets act. What I don't get is how crimes like this can be reported to the police who take it to their superiors and then told to "bury it" because they're supposedly afraid of riots.

(in reply to Politesub53)

RE: Racism and Islamophobia. - 9/17/2014 4:07:19 AM

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Joined: 5/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63

You mentioned to FD upthread that she was forbidden to take her story to the press because she signed the official secrets act. What I don't get is how crimes like this can be reported to the police who take it to their superiors and then told to "bury it" because they're supposedly afraid of riots.

Senior officers were breaking the law, that is my whole point. Nothing was ever legal in the actions they were taking.

If you take a case like the 1989 Hillsborough tradegy, where 96 football fans died in a crush, the whole thing was covered up, first by the police and then by politicians. The whole truth only came about recently due to continued pressure from the families of those who died. There is now talk of charges being brought against some of the officers involved.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillsborough_disaster

(in reply to Zonie63)

RE: Racism and Islamophobia. - 9/17/2014 10:39:43 AM

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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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quote:

Egyptian police use dating sites to hunt down gay people

http://observers.france24.com/content/20140916-egyptian-police-dating-sites-gay

Careful, reading the news now means that you are a racist Islamaphobic neocon warmonger

(All hail Islam)

< Message edited by Sanity -- 9/17/2014 10:48:00 AM >

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(in reply to Politesub53)

RE: Racism and Islamophobia. - 9/18/2014 7:52:18 AM

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ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

Egyptian police use dating sites to hunt down gay people

http://observers.france24.com/content/20140916-egyptian-police-dating-sites-gay

Careful, reading the news now means that you are a racist Islamaphobic neocon warmonger

(All hail Islam)

Wow just like amerikan kops

(in reply to Sanity)

RE: Racism and Islamophobia. - 10/11/2014 7:51:07 PM

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Joined: 2/6/2011
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quote:

Racists dont usually ask an asian if he is Muslim, Hindu, Christian, Sikh etc before he assaults them or fires a volley of verbal abuse.

I don't have to ask an Asian if his Muslim, Hindu, Christian or Sikh. I just need to ask which country is he from, and then I can make an assumption whether he is Muslim or not.

It's very simple, if his from a Muslim country, and he is of a certain race, he will be forced against his will to be Muslim, as it would be death penalty in his country if he dares not to be one.

I don't respect religion that oppress freedom of people.

Calling it racism is bullshit.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 10/11/2014 7:52:14 PM >

(in reply to Politesub53)

RE: Racism and Islamophobia. - 10/11/2014 10:56:18 PM

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If people ever figure out that oil companies and the IMF globally oppress freedom every bit as much as any religion ever did, then the world might take a step forward.

< Message edited by Edwynn -- 10/11/2014 11:00:03 PM >

(in reply to Greta75)

RE: Racism and Islamophobia. - 10/12/2014 6:41:19 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn
If people ever figure out that oil companies and the IMF globally oppress freedom every bit as much as any religion ever did, then the world might take a step forward.

What kind of oppression are you referring to that could compare to taking a person's choice to choose whether to be a Muslim or not?

After all, for a woman born into the wrong country, being a Muslim means, she must always cover up her entire face. And if she CHOOSES to do that, it's fine, but did she have a choice?

Was she educated in all the different religious beliefs before she can have a choice to choose which religion she wants to follow?

I say this because in an environment of freedom of religion, like I am privileged to be born into, we get educated in school and learn about what all the different types of religions are about, we would have a class filled with people from different religious background to share real life details as well, to have a clearer idea, before we can decide which religion we wish to follow or not want to follow or just don't have any religion at all. Infact, if I made the wrong choice, for example, if I chose to be catholic and decide catholism is not for me 2 years later, I can switch to Buddhism. I am blessed to have that choice. I hate that many Muslims in Muslim countries do not have that choice to switch, opt out or simply not want to follow.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 10/12/2014 6:45:42 AM >

(in reply to Edwynn)

RE: Racism and Islamophobia. - 10/12/2014 11:42:31 AM

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Joined: 4/3/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

Racists dont usually ask an asian if he is Muslim, Hindu, Christian, Sikh etc before he assaults them or fires a volley of verbal abuse.

I don't have to ask an Asian if his Muslim, Hindu, Christian or Sikh. I just need to ask which country is he from, and then I can make an assumption whether he is Muslim or not.

It's very simple, if his from a Muslim country, and he is of a certain race, he will be forced against his will to be Muslim, as it would be death penalty in his country if he dares not to be one.

I don't respect religion that oppress freedom of people.

Calling it racism is bullshit.

There isn't a country in the world where a 100% of its citizens are Muslim. What country forces its citizens to be Muslims?

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(in reply to Greta75)

RE: Racism and Islamophobia. - 10/12/2014 11:55:04 AM

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We will never change that choice. Our supposed war on terror isn't about giving these people more choice; its not about liberating Islam from the Islamists. The propaganda machine works on an emotional level, not a practical or realistic one. Be under no doubt that our governments give a flying fuck about repressed women in Islam.

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