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RE: Racism and Islamophobia. - 10/13/2014 12:31:07 PM

cloudboy

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I ask again:

(1) Yes -- THE USA IS STILL RESPONSIBLE FOR IRAQ'S SECURITY 11 YEARS AFTER ITS INVASION.

(2) US BIG GOVERNMENT INTERVENTION IS THE ANSWER TO THE PROBLEM.

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RE: Racism and Islamophobia. - 10/13/2014 12:55:45 PM

NorthernGent

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Those concerned with the Muslim community's alleged reticence to condemn IS might be heartened by this denunciation of IS by Australian Imans:

Same is happening here, Tweak. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28270296

What we need now is every 'moderate Muslim' to knock on everyone's doors apologising for something that is nothing to do with them.

Because, of course, Sanity and associated peace advocates would certainly knock on everyone's door in the event an American, let's say someone burning down a mosque in Missouri for arguments sake, which did actually happen; and apologise.

Some people simply will always want to invoke things like the Quran to suggest they're more mental than the rest of the world, not withstanding that fact that experience doesn't support this point of view.

This is an issue on which you simply can't reason with a minority of the population.

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RE: Racism and Islamophobia. - 10/13/2014 1:03:36 PM

NorthernGent

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn

If people ever figure out that oil companies and the IMF globally oppress freedom every bit as much as any religion ever did, then the world might take a step forward.

Probably not accurate assuming 'freedom' is defined by the capacity to say to people what they don't want to hear, without fear of retribution, in Orwell fashion.

I doubt any money making organisation gives the first fuck what you say providing you're making money for them.

Religion, some corners of religion, certainly does practice censorship.

Business does not oppress freedom, unless you're a Kierkegaard type who believes freedom is bound up with thought.

What business certainly does is restricts your choices and provides a narrow sense of freedom.

But, the real question is, is it better to have a narrow sense of freedom that provides for another person's narrow sense of freedom, or is it better to think like Kierkegaard, which, in my opinion, can only ever lead to some form of Totalitarianism at some point?

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RE: Racism and Islamophobia. - 10/13/2014 1:49:49 PM

PeonForHer

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quote:

What we need now is every 'moderate Muslim' to knock on everyone's doors apologising for something that is nothing to do with them.

It's bizarre, isn't it? The paedo gang that involved a bunch of Muslims that recently hit the news led to all kinds of grumblings about paedophilia in the Koran and the like. I never heard of anybody investigating the string of 1970s celebs who'd been up to loathsome activities involving minors and suddenly crying, 'Aha - they were all *Christians*!' - and then go foraging in the Bible.

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RE: Racism and Islamophobia. - 10/13/2014 5:18:04 PM

Aylee

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Those concerned with the Muslim community's alleged reticence to condemn IS might be heartened by this denunciation of IS by Australian Imans:

Same is happening here, Tweak. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28270296

What we need now is every 'moderate Muslim' to knock on everyone's doors apologising for something that is nothing to do with them.

Because, of course, Sanity and associated peace advocates would certainly knock on everyone's door in the event an American, let's say someone burning down a mosque in Missouri for arguments sake, which did actually happen; and apologise.

Some people simply will always want to invoke things like the Quran to suggest they're more mental than the rest of the world, not withstanding that fact that experience doesn't support this point of view.

This is an issue on which you simply can't reason with a minority of the population.

Well . . . ya see. . . in the US, we would find them, try them, and jail them. See Timothy McVeigh, Terry Nichols, Michael and Laurie Fortier.

I have not seen any news of arrests or such in the be-headings or crucifixion of children or kidnapping boys and girls and selling them into sex slavery and so on and so forth. Or any of the other attacks on non-Muslims or non-conforming-Muslims.

Ya see, we do not celebrate our Ted Bundys and Adam Lanzas.

< Message edited by Aylee -- 10/13/2014 5:19:24 PM >

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RE: Racism and Islamophobia. - 10/13/2014 5:54:54 PM

Greta75

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quote:

What we need now is every 'moderate Muslim' to knock on everyone's doors apologising for something that is nothing to do with them.

What is a moderate muslim? What is a moderate christian?
Moderate muslim is someone who picks and chooses what they want to practice and they don't practice the things that are not compatible with civil law or the culture of the country they live in to assimilate.
Moderate christian is someone who generally does not subscribe to the old testament teachings. Again, they pick and choose the nicer parts of Christianity to practice.

So moderate muslims definitely cannot apologise as they are simply not following the religion to the T and they know it, and feel guilty about it. Infact, they are usually sympathetic to the bad press their brothers get, when they simply try to follow everything to the T. It's not easy to fully subscribe to Islamic beliefs in modern society.

And I also find something very interesting. Why do people expect the Pope to apologize for catholic priest child molesters when it has nothing to do him? The best part is, I bet you cannot find a single command in the bible to tell priests to molest kids. It's not like he encouraged them to do it. Nobody defends the Pope. But people jump up and defend Moderate Muslims right not to apologize for actions that they did not do, when certain verses that exists in their Quran and Hadiths, may have encouraged these actions of the extremists.

Anyway, I don't expect moderate muslims to apologise, I want them to develop a stronger modern muslim interpretation of their holy text. So when extremists imam goes for literal interpretation, they should loudly and proudly present their allegorised more peaceful interpretation as well.

Their version of Islam needs more louder voices to drown the extremist version of it. I am annoyed that they aren't loud enough.

I want them to be screaming at the extremists that, "THAT IS NOT MUSLIM BEHAVIOUR!"

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 10/13/2014 6:09:44 PM >

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RE: Racism and Islamophobia. - 10/14/2014 1:30:17 AM

MariaB

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

I ask again:

(1) Yes -- THE USA IS STILL RESPONSIBLE FOR IRAQ'S SECURITY 11 YEARS AFTER ITS INVASION.

(2) US BIG GOVERNMENT INTERVENTION IS THE ANSWER TO THE PROBLEM.

Who are you asking ? Your posts are very unclear about who your trying to talk to.

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RE: Racism and Islamophobia. - 10/14/2014 9:24:11 AM

cloudboy

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Sanity. He's so partisan he never realizes when he's working at cross purposes -- hence his refusal to answer the questions asked. I am mostly at fault, however, for feeding the troll.

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RE: Racism and Islamophobia. - 10/14/2014 12:26:59 PM

NorthernGent

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

What is a moderate muslim?

Absolutely no idea, but some people have boxed 'em in: "the islamofascists"; "the moderate muslims"; "the islamists" and so forth.

I can tell you, though, with a degree of certainty, that in the event you hear people talking with such monumental stupidity: avoid them.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

I want them to be screaming at the extremists that, "THAT IS NOT MUSLIM BEHAVIOUR!"

Don't be so fucking ridiculous.

The average bloke down the street, who just happens to be a Muslim, has better things to do than pander to your ill-conceived ideas. Such as: go to work, do the shopping, spend time with the wife. Some of you people are on some serious mind bending drugs.

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RE: Racism and Islamophobia. - 10/14/2014 5:20:48 PM

Politesub53

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

What we need now is every 'moderate Muslim' to knock on everyone's doors apologising for something that is nothing to do with them.

What is a moderate muslim? What is a moderate christian?
Moderate muslim is someone who picks and chooses what they want to practice and they don't practice the things that are not compatible with civil law or the culture of the country they live in to assimilate.
Moderate christian is someone who generally does not subscribe to the old testament teachings. Again, they pick and choose the nicer parts of Christianity to practice.

So moderate muslims definitely cannot apologise as they are simply not following the religion to the T and they know it, and feel guilty about it. Infact, they are usually sympathetic to the bad press their brothers get, when they simply try to follow everything to the T. It's not easy to fully subscribe to Islamic beliefs in modern society.

And I also find something very interesting. Why do people expect the Pope to apologize for catholic priest child molesters when it has nothing to do him? The best part is, I bet you cannot find a single command in the bible to tell priests to molest kids. It's not like he encouraged them to do it. Nobody defends the Pope. But people jump up and defend Moderate Muslims right not to apologize for actions that they did not do, when certain verses that exists in their Quran and Hadiths, may have encouraged these actions of the extremists.

Anyway, I don't expect moderate muslims to apologise, I want them to develop a stronger modern muslim interpretation of their holy text. So when extremists imam goes for literal interpretation, they should loudly and proudly present their allegorised more peaceful interpretation as well.

Their version of Islam needs more louder voices to drown the extremist version of it. I am annoyed that they aren't loud enough.

I want them to be screaming at the extremists that, "THAT IS NOT MUSLIM BEHAVIOUR!"

I wondered how to sumise your post....... bullshit seems to fit the bill. Although ignorance truly is bliss on your part.

How the fuck do you know what moderate Muslims follow isnt the true way to follow Islam. The vast majotiy of Muslims in the UK are appalled by child abuse and beheadings. As NG said, most of them just want to get on with life.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/oct/12/alan-henning-service-manchester-remembered-hero-isis

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kamran-pasha/the-big-lie-about-muslim_b_188991.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-politics/11116854/Young-Muslim-women-are-speaking-out-against-the-Islamic-State-in-on-streets-of-London.html

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RE: Racism and Islamophobia. - 10/14/2014 8:23:32 PM

bowedB4Women

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The muslims around the globe protesting against isis tells the story.

That's right I don't see any either.

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RE: Racism and Islamophobia. - 10/15/2014 4:24:02 AM

MariaB

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

What we need now is every 'moderate Muslim' to knock on everyone's doors apologising for something that is nothing to do with them.

What is a moderate muslim? What is a moderate christian?
Moderate muslim is someone who picks and chooses what they want to practice and they don't practice the things that are not compatible with civil law or the culture of the country they live in to assimilate.
Moderate christian is someone who generally does not subscribe to the old testament teachings. Again, they pick and choose the nicer parts of Christianity to practice.

No Muslim wants to be called a “moderate Muslim” because it implies they are less of a Muslim. I know we need to differentiate from “radical” but why don’t we just call them “norman Muslims”? Normal Muslims don’t take bits and pieces of their faith and fit it to suit. They don’t need to compromise, they can still be devout Muslims.

quote:

So moderate muslims definitely cannot apologise as they are simply not following the religion to the T and they know it, and feel guilty about it. Infact, they are usually sympathetic to the bad press their brothers get, when they simply try to follow everything to the T. It's not easy to fully subscribe to Islamic beliefs in modern society.

Do you make this up as you go along?

quote:

I want them to be screaming at the extremists that, "THAT IS NOT MUSLIM BEHAVIOUR!"

Why should they? Should they feel guilty for someone else's actions? Muslims are not responsible for monitoring the behaviour of other Muslims. Should they also apologize for praying during lunch and not hanging around with the smokers?

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RE: Racism and Islamophobia. - 10/16/2014 8:48:47 AM

thompsonx

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ORIGINAL: bowedB4Women

The muslims around the globe protesting against isis tells the story.

That's right I don't see any either.

Perhaps it is because you see what you wish to see.

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RE: Racism and Islamophobia. - 10/16/2014 9:39:19 AM

Greta75

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

How the fuck do you know what moderate Muslims follow isnt the true way to follow Islam. The vast majotiy of Muslims in the UK are appalled by child abuse and beheadings. As NG said, most of them just want to get on with life.

By reading the hadiths and Quran. The worst part is that the purpose of the Hadiths is to make sure you interprete the meaning of certain verses and sentences in the Quran accurately and the real life historical example they give follows literal translation. As I said, moderate muslims pick and choose the stuffs they want to practise that are compatible with civil law of the country they live in.
Extremist Muslims, just practice literal translations.
I would say the same for Extremist Christians, they are practicing literal translation of the old testament. And if none of you even noticed yet, that Muslims insist Jesus is just one of the prophet and not the son of God so they don't recognise the new testament, but they agree everything in the old testament of the christian bible is true and they do study that. Islam is essentially, old testament Part 2 and improvised further in the form of the Quran.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 10/16/2014 9:59:04 AM >

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RE: Racism and Islamophobia. - 10/16/2014 9:43:18 AM

Greta75

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quote:

Normal Muslims don’t take bits and pieces of their faith and fit it to suit. They don’t need to compromise, they can still be devout Muslims.

They do need to compromise. For example, if a Muslim insist on wearing a headgear, she may never be able to work as an air stewardess. She has to compromise.
If a Muslim insist that they cannot be around people who eat pork, multi-religious kids in school eating different things, they would have problems.
Fact of the matter, Maria, you live in the UK, your government does not entertain Muslims on their special religious practices like my country does. Your country would never allow them 4 wives for example, whereas mine allow them to practice it legally, specifically just for them. Would your country allow them to have their own legally recognised sharia court? No. My country allows them to have that. How about being given half day off work every single Friday to go to the Mosque, and getting paid anyway, while all other religious groups don't get this priviledge? Only specially for them! Seven Day Adventist Christians don't even get to come to work late because they gotta go to church every morning!

So your moderate muslims assimilated to suit your British culture. They have to give up some of their practices.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 10/16/2014 9:52:36 AM >

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RE: Racism and Islamophobia. - 10/16/2014 10:03:15 AM

freedomdwarf1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75
So your moderate muslims assimilated to suit your British culture. They have to give up some of their practices.

And so they should!!!

They chose to come here for a better life and freebie handouts.
So.... when in Rome, yada yada yada... Why shouldn't they conform?

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RE: Racism and Islamophobia. - 10/16/2014 10:10:31 AM

Greta75

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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
And so they should!!!

They chose to come here for a better life and freebie handouts.
So.... when in Rome, yada yada yada... Why shouldn't they conform?

Maria claims they don't conform. I'm just informing her that Muslims have to give up alot of their religious practices to live in the UK and fit in.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 10/16/2014 10:11:26 AM >

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RE: Racism and Islamophobia. - 10/16/2014 10:14:03 AM

PeonForHer

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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75
So your moderate muslims assimilated to suit your British culture. They have to give up some of their practices.

And so they should!!!

They chose to come here for a better life and freebie handouts.

Are Muslims more likely to be on the dole, then? I haven't seen the stats on that.

quote:

So.... when in Rome, yada yada yada... Why shouldn't they conform?

That line always puts me on edge. Nothing personal against your good self, FD, but the people who most bang about the ideal of people 'conforming to British culture' seem to assume certain 'essentials' about said culture to which I don't conform and see no reason why I should conform. (Christianity, monarchism, crap food, reading the Sun, etc, etc.)

In general I don't believe that everyone should like and do just what the majority like and do just because the majority *is* the majority. Hell, none of us would be using this site if that were the case. In fact we should all be campaigning to shut this site down and stop upsetting the straights.

< Message edited by PeonForHer -- 10/16/2014 10:15:01 AM >

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RE: Racism and Islamophobia. - 10/16/2014 10:20:30 AM

freedomdwarf1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
And so they should!!!

They chose to come here for a better life and freebie handouts.
So.... when in Rome, yada yada yada... Why shouldn't they conform?

Maria claims they don't conform. I'm just informing her that Muslims have to give up alot of their religious practices to live in the UK and fit in.

And Maria is correct.
A good proportion do not conform to the British way of life.
They obey the laws (just) but effectively live a life just as they did in their home country.

Many that have been here for years, even decades, refuse to learn the language and customs.
One of my pet peeves is that it has always been (for many centuries) considered rude to wear headgear indoors, yet they flout that under the 'religious rights' laws. That really pisses me off big time.

Some of the more recent and forward-thinking immigrants do try, but many do not.
They certainly, on the whole, do not integrate with the community outside of their own group.

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RE: Racism and Islamophobia. - 10/16/2014 10:24:54 AM

Greta75

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There is a reason why restaurants are going Halal, despite being able to offer non-pork options to Muslims. Because, their religion forbids them to dine at any establishment that serves pork, even IF they just go there for chicken or beef.

So, someone has to sacrifice. Either the Muslims boycott all restaurants that serve pork. Or the restaurants remove pork from their menus totally, to make muslims feel welcome, and deprived, for me, chinese culture is pork-based in everything, so deprived us of our culture to suit their culture. And our authentic Chinese food HAS to be cooked with pork lard in everything! Or it's no longer authentic.

What is the compromise? Hindus and Buddhists cannot eat beef in my country, it's against their religion, but has no problem walking into a steak house with me. They just order vegetarian while I eat steak. But a Muslim will never dine with me, at least in Singapore, if I went to anywhere that serves pork, even if there is non-pork items for them.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 10/16/2014 10:28:04 AM >

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