RE: Let Your Far-Left Freak Flag Fly (Full Version)

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Sanity -> RE: Let Your Far-Left Freak Flag Fly (10/30/2014 8:49:00 PM)



quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

customers create jobs...if people cant afford what you sell, there wont be long term decent jobs to create



How many customers would have been buying Henry Fords' cars, had it not been for Henry Ford creating jobs









Lucylastic -> RE: Let Your Far-Left Freak Flag Fly (10/30/2014 8:52:31 PM)

amazing that you have to go that far back to find a company that paid its workers a decent wage so they could buy his product, damn fine idea, but certainly not in practise much since then....there are notable ones of course. but it sure isnt the norm.
A worker being able to buy what he helps produce...amazeballs




Sanity -> RE: Let Your Far-Left Freak Flag Fly (10/30/2014 9:13:15 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

amazing that you have to go that far back


That was just the first example that came to mind

Heres another (there are millions)

IBM, Microsoft, etc. What came first? The customer, or the companies creating the demand for computers and software through invention and innovation (and therefore the millions and millions of tech jobs people hold today).




Musicmystery -> RE: Let Your Far-Left Freak Flag Fly (10/31/2014 4:34:06 AM)

Before those companies were the companies who actually developed the technology used by the early computer pioneers.

And they grew through customers letting them grow into companies with large R&D.

Business, at its core, is about solving problems. Someone sees a problem, has a viable solution, and offers it to consumers. (Granted, or marketing convinces consumers there's a problem with a solution, but lets keep this basic).

In short, there's a better, faster, cheaper, something way to address a problem. Without consumers having that problem, there's no business opportunity.

Henry Ford saw the benefits of a horseless carriage. Henry Ford's first attempt at a car company under his own name was the Henry Ford Company on November 3, 1901, which became the Cadillac Motor Company on August 22, 1902, after Ford left with the rights to his name. The Ford Motor Company was launched in a converted factory in 1903 with $28,000 in cash from twelve investors, most notably John and Horace Dodge (who would later found their own car company). During its early years, the company produced just a few cars a day at its factory on Mack Avenue in Detroit, Michigan. Groups of two or three men worked on each car, assembling it from parts made mostly by supplier companies contracting for Ford.

Then he saw another problem, and within a decade the company would lead the world in the expansion and refinement of the assembly line concept; and Ford soon brought much of the part production in-house in a vertical integration that seemed a better path for the era.

He also realized that, despite conservative business practice lately, he would benefit greatly if he treated his workers well--so that they could buy his cars. Ford was a pioneer of "welfare capitalism", designed to improve the lot of his workers and especially to reduce the heavy turnover that had many departments hiring 300 men per year to fill 100 slots.

Ford astonished the world in 1914 by offering a $5 per day wage, which more than doubled the rate of most of his workers. The move proved extremely profitable; instead of constant turnover of employees, the best mechanics in Detroit flocked to Ford, bringing their human capital and expertise, raising productivity, and lowering training costs. He also set a new, reduced workweek -- first 6 8-hour days, then 5 8-hour days--the first 40 hour work week. Then he started the $6/day wage. Profit-sharing was offered to employees who had worked at the company for six months or more.

And -- with lower turnover and lowered production costs, people could afford his cars, including the men who built them.

Because Ford understood that consumers drive markets. Supply, despite Says Law (which is 250 years old, and speaks to an agricultural society), does not magically create demand--or there would never be overstock. Meeting demand, however, equals business -- and that takes consumers.

Yes, and business owners with the vision and passion to solve the problem. But those businesses are consumer-driven...or they aren't businesses long.




Musicmystery -> RE: Let Your Far-Left Freak Flag Fly (10/31/2014 4:35:50 AM)

Before those companies were the companies who actually developed the technology used by the early computer pioneers.

And they grew through customers letting them grow into companies with large R&D.

Business, at its core, is about solving problems. Someone sees a problem, has a viable solution, and offers it to consumers. (Granted, or marketing convinces consumers there's a problem with a solution, but lets keep this basic).

In short, there's a better, faster, cheaper, something way to address a problem. Without consumers having that problem, there's no business opportunity.

Henry Ford saw the benefits of a horseless carriage. Henry Ford's first attempt at a car company under his own name was the Henry Ford Company on November 3, 1901, which became the Cadillac Motor Company on August 22, 1902, after Ford left with the rights to his name. The Ford Motor Company was launched in a converted factory in 1903 with $28,000 in cash from twelve investors, most notably John and Horace Dodge (who would later found their own car company). During its early years, the company produced just a few cars a day at its factory on Mack Avenue in Detroit, Michigan. Groups of two or three men worked on each car, assembling it from parts made mostly by supplier companies contracting for Ford.

Then he saw another problem, and within a decade the company would lead the world in the expansion and refinement of the assembly line concept; and Ford soon brought much of the part production in-house in a vertical integration that seemed a better path for the era.

He also realized that, despite conservative business practice lately, he would benefit greatly if he treated his workers well--so that they could buy his cars. Ford was a pioneer of "welfare capitalism", designed to improve the lot of his workers and especially to reduce the heavy turnover that had many departments hiring 300 men per year to fill 100 slots.

Ford astonished the world in 1914 by offering a $5 per day wage, which more than doubled the rate of most of his workers. The move proved extremely profitable; instead of constant turnover of employees, the best mechanics in Detroit flocked to Ford, bringing their human capital and expertise, raising productivity, and lowering training costs. He also set a new, reduced workweek -- first 6 8-hour days, then 5 8-hour days--the first 40 hour work week. Then he started the $6/day wage. Profit-sharing was offered to employees who had worked at the company for six months or more.

And -- with lower turnover and lowered production costs, people could afford his cars, including the men who built them.

Because Ford understood that consumers drive markets. Supply, despite Says Law (which is 250 years old, and speaks to an agricultural society), does not magically create demand--or there would never be overstock. Meeting demand, however, equals business -- and that takes consumers.

Yes, and business owners with the vision and passion to solve the problem. But those businesses are consumer-driven...or they aren't businesses long.

(Ford data and language borrowed from Wikipedia)




Lucylastic -> RE: Let Your Far-Left Freak Flag Fly (10/31/2014 4:40:32 AM)

quote:

But those businesses are consumer-driven...or they aren't businesses long.

Its strange that so many think otherwise.




Sanity -> RE: Let Your Far-Left Freak Flag Fly (10/31/2014 5:28:21 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

quote:

But those businesses are consumer-driven...or they aren't businesses long.

Its strange that so many think otherwise.


So... If a business owner isnt diligent, and he creates a product that doesnt fly, its really the consumers who fail because the business owner didnt really create anything. Its the consumers who did...

[img]http://i3.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/010/890/tumblr_m7b9j7dcjH1rbxfido1_1280.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/353/837/5fd.jpg[/img]

[img]http://capitolcommentary.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/tumblr_m7bai1ri331rbxfido1_r1_500.png[/img]


[img]http://spectator.org/assets/mc/cartoons/2012.7.23-You-Didnt-Build-It.jpg[/img]

[img]http://americanprinciples.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/billboard-you-didnt-build-that-550.jpg[/img]






Lucylastic -> RE: Let Your Far-Left Freak Flag Fly (10/31/2014 5:50:59 AM)

thats inspiring information...
without my customers, I have nothing but a dream





Musicmystery -> RE: Let Your Far-Left Freak Flag Fly (10/31/2014 6:43:30 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

quote:

But those businesses are consumer-driven...or they aren't businesses long.

Its strange that so many think otherwise.


So... If a business owner isnt diligent, and he creates a product that doesnt fly, its really the consumers who fail because the business owner didnt really create anything. Its the consumers who did...


Well, first, it's clear you're never going to run a successful business. That's a pretty convoluted take. One that you're doing merely to cling to parroting your masters' talking points, I get it, but convoluted nonetheless. Forcing square pegs into round holes and all that. And certainly access to infrastructure is critical. Seems obvious, but apparently, that's a stretch for some minds.

Lucy -- every time the term "business" comes up, so many folks turn to megacorporations as if they are the entirety of the business world. Consumers in the US alone spend $10 trillion on good and services, everything from fixing the water heater to treating the family dog to taking care of transportation needs and grabbing a convenient lunch. That's what business does -- address these consumer needs. That's why these folks are in business.

Lots of businesses that don't know that or lose interest or faith in their product go out of business. Fewer than 4% of businesses are still open after ten years (not necessarily through failure--some folks move on to the next venture).

But, for example, in Sanity's invented scenario above, neither the business person nor the consumer fail. Instead, the business owner realizes helpful information has been gained, and comes at the problem from a new approach.

Businesses like Apple are always coming up with ways to obsolete their own product. Why? That's what the competition is doing, so Apple makes sure they get there first. This means better solutions to consumer problems.

And it means they draw heavily on existing infrastructure as well.





Musicmystery -> RE: Let Your Far-Left Freak Flag Fly (10/31/2014 6:49:06 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

thats inspiring information...
without my customers, I have nothing but a dream



My business model builds relationship with prospects by giving them free, helpful information until they decide they'd like to set up a consultation. I don't charge for that either -- they are getting a thorough and comprehensive assessment and, if they like, the low-down on how I can help them move forward successfully. But while they are getting those benefits, I'm listening . . . what are these people's problems, and what language do they use when describing those problems. Nothing I come up with is going to work better than addressing that directly.




slvemike4u -> RE: Let Your Far-Left Freak Flag Fly (10/31/2014 6:53:35 AM)

Pearls before swine comes to mind here........




Sanity -> RE: Let Your Far-Left Freak Flag Fly (10/31/2014 7:03:52 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

thats inspiring information...
without my customers, I have nothing but a dream




Youre kidding right

You have nothing

You arent doing anything, remember




Zonie63 -> RE: Let Your Far-Left Freak Flag Fly (10/31/2014 7:40:30 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

quote:

But those businesses are consumer-driven...or they aren't businesses long.

Its strange that so many think otherwise.


So... If a business owner isnt diligent, and he creates a product that doesnt fly, its really the consumers who fail because the business owner didnt really create anything. Its the consumers who did...

[img]http://i3.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/010/890/tumblr_m7b9j7dcjH1rbxfido1_1280.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/353/837/5fd.jpg[/img]

[img]http://capitolcommentary.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/tumblr_m7bai1ri331rbxfido1_r1_500.png[/img]


[img]http://spectator.org/assets/mc/cartoons/2012.7.23-You-Didnt-Build-It.jpg[/img]

[img]http://americanprinciples.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/billboard-you-didnt-build-that-550.jpg[/img]


I don't think I would interpret in the same way as you. Sure, the Wright Brothers built the plane, but the executives at United or American Airlines did not build anything. Sure, Edison invented the light bulb, but that doesn't mean we owe any homage to General Electric or your average utility company. They're just taking credit and making money off of things that someone else actually built. Some would call that "leeching."




Lucylastic -> RE: Let Your Far-Left Freak Flag Fly (10/31/2014 7:43:30 AM)

[:)]




mnottertail -> RE: Let Your Far-Left Freak Flag Fly (10/31/2014 8:02:51 AM)

In the case of GE, they did it by disinformation, badmouthing Tesla, and a host of other malfeasance.

Remember the elephant being electrocuted by AC?




Edwynn -> RE: Let Your Far-Left Freak Flag Fly (10/31/2014 9:50:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
Conservatives understand that the government shakes down productive citizens for every dime it wastes


My gosh! For once, he speaks the truth!

The conservatives most certainly understood (and still do) the concept of using the government to shake down the McDonald's workers and the trash collectors and and insurance adjusters and production line workers and supervisors and everybody else below the tax-lite .1 percenters when they (via the reliable Reagan puppet) assigned the task of this shaking down to Alan Greenspan and his National Commission on Social Security.

So they ("they" meaning "the conservatives") came up with the addition of a further (thoroughly regressive) payroll tax, the Medicare tax.

The aforesaid (Greenspan) Commission decided that the people who should pay the most for the immense increase in government expenditure under Reagan (which completely blew up what Volker was trying to do to deal with inflation) should fall on ... the workers. Not the profiteers from the government military expenditure balloon expansion, but ... the workers.

Hence the extra Medicare payroll deduction, which did not exist before 1984. The 'Workers in Service to Wastrels' program, as it were.

In this and in many other ways (like ruining your life forever for small time drug dealing, stealing your house, "fuck consumer protection," etc.), if you want a real 'shake-down' of society, leave it to the pros, the folks who claim themselves (grab your crotch, and your wallet, quickly) as "political conservatives."







Edwynn -> RE: Let Your Far-Left Freak Flag Fly (11/1/2014 12:08:55 AM)


Your talk-head fuckwits never told you about that one, did they?




CentralFLDomCPL -> RE: Let Your Far-Left Freak Flag Fly (11/1/2014 1:26:23 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
So... If a business owner isnt diligent, and he creates a product that doesnt fly, its really the consumers who fail because the business owner didnt really create anything. Its the consumers who did...
[img]http://i3.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/010/890/tumblr_m7b9j7dcjH1rbxfido1_1280.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/353/837/5fd.jpg[/img]
[img]http://capitolcommentary.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/tumblr_m7bai1ri331rbxfido1_r1_500.png[/img]
[img]http://spectator.org/assets/mc/cartoons/2012.7.23-You-Didnt-Build-It.jpg[/img]
[img]http://americanprinciples.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/billboard-you-didnt-build-that-550.jpg[/img]


Well, if you actually HEARD the "didn't build that" quote and UNDERSTOOD it, you would know your entire premise is incorrect.

What President Obama ACTUALLY said was no one built a business by themselves. As an example, if you built a factory, there had to be a road leading to your property. You didn't build that road. There had to be trucks to bring the construction materials to your property. You didn't build the trucks. There had to be SO many other different things already in place, just for you to be able to build your business. You didn't build them, but without them, you couldn't build your business. He NEVER said the person didn't build their business, just that he couldn't have done it without the infrastructure to make it possible.

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. That's why Faux News (unfair and unbalanced) is always misquoting people and taking things out of context.




mnottertail -> RE: Let Your Far-Left Freak Flag Fly (11/1/2014 6:41:17 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

amazing that you have to go that far back


That was just the first example that came to mind

Heres another (there are millions)

IBM, Microsoft, etc. What came first? The customer, or the companies creating the demand for computers and software through invention and innovation (and therefore the millions and millions of tech jobs people hold today).


Uh, in the case of IBM, and therefore microsoft, it was the good old us government. Thanks for playing.




Musicmystery -> RE: Let Your Far-Left Freak Flag Fly (11/1/2014 6:44:52 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: CentralFLDomCPL


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
So... If a business owner isnt diligent, and he creates a product that doesnt fly, its really the consumers who fail because the business owner didnt really create anything. Its the consumers who did...


Well, if you actually HEARD the "didn't build that" quote and UNDERSTOOD it, you would know your entire premise is incorrect.

What President Obama ACTUALLY said was no one built a business by themselves. As an example, if you built a factory, there had to be a road leading to your property. You didn't build that road. There had to be trucks to bring the construction materials to your property. You didn't build the trucks. There had to be SO many other different things already in place, just for you to be able to build your business. You didn't build them, but without them, you couldn't build your business. He NEVER said the person didn't build their business, just that he couldn't have done it without the infrastructure to make it possible.

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. That's why Faux News (unfair and unbalanced) is always misquoting people and taking things out of context.


Pronouns. They are tricky buggers, for those quick to assume erroneous to what they refer.

And those relative pronouns (like "that") are no exception.




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